I stand corrected then, I guess 36 is more likely what we can expect. I would still consider that excellent fuel economy.

 

I would as well

 

They must have the other MCS--the one that gets good gas mileage compared to my MCS.

 

Yes, they are discussing it in their 2nd Generation MCS (R56).

Like I said, the R56 gets much better gas mileage than the R53 does thanks to direct injection.

 

I have to agree with Patagonian here. My wife's Outback XT Ltd. interior is much more refined than my loaded '06 JCW. Sure, the interior of my '03 WRX was cheap looking. I love the MINI but have to say I do miss the AWD. There's nothing quite like Subaru's AWD for putting down the power.

 

MINI also sells the MC and the MINI one and Diesel. Its only a matter of time before the other variations hit the US. I, for one would definitely call the MC an economy car now. Good gas milease.

But Subie builds Rallye cars. That is its racing "heritage". I aint seen no Subie racing any other series. So AWD is its thing. But I agree ... AWD is a good thing.

170HP is what the market will bear for the masses. Remember the car is marketed worldwide. In some countries, more HP means more money to put it on the road. MINI has made 1,000,000 MINIs. US has got what ... 150K of them. A drop in the bucket compared to the global market. I dont see how you think the MINI is overweight. Its NOT a sports car or any kind of real performance car although I wish they WOULD build one but as others have said about the subject ... aint going to happen in that price range.

 

just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it's not there. two I know for sure - both in the Grand-Am Koni Challenge Series

factory backed team (they even campaign a wagon)
http://www.icyracing.com/

privateers backed by powerhouse Cobb Tuning:
http://www.gotoracing.com/main.php

 

OK, you found a couple, but its not their heritage. Rallye cars are their thing

 

>2600 lbs for a car that is only 12' long is too heavy.

 

By the time the AWD MINI hits the dealers, the boxy Impreza will have been replaced with a 4-door hatch version that looks remarkably like a station wagon or a Mazda 3. At this point there is no way to tell if Subaru is going to continue with the ridiculous body add-ons that look as if they were put on in a high school shop class. Bad decisions like that bode well for the MINI.

 

Honda Fit Sport 157.4" 2471 lbs.
Mazda Speed 3 176.8" 3163 lbs.
R56 S 146.2" 2668 lbs.
Ford Focus

 

has Mini gone so far off the mark that they will stall and fail, or is there a real way to add range to the offerings that grow the brand worldwide and what does AWD have to do with either of these questions...

Seems there's a bunch of pissing about how others would do different, but I have yet to read a real suggestion on how to build the numbers other than "and S with more power".

Matt

 

Of course it won't fail. I agree with Dave, the Clubman should sell as well as any other Mini.

- Build the Clubman and offer an AWD variant w/only the Clubman. Finding a way to bump up the power about 15 to 20 hp for this model would be a good idea.

- Bring the Diesel here.

- Make a JCW version with around 235 hp or more if the drivetrain will allow it - and no AWD. LSD and a good sport suspension is all this car would need.

 

We can agree about this. It's a reason why I'm baffled by the decision to weigh it down with AWD. Will AWD really improve the car or add a useful feature for folks? My sister-in-law lives in St. Croix Switzerland in the pre-Alps. They by 4wd cars because they drive in snow through much of the year. An AWD MINI would make sense for her. If I see these in SoCal, I'll be thinking, DUH.

 

Who defines need? Is any of it need? seems to me we're talking market preference. I, for one, would like an AWD MCS, especially if it were a sporting system. Just make the options available to those that want to buy them, and those that don't want them just can leave the box unchecked.

What's so bad with that?

Matt

 

i think an AWD Mini would be fantastic....ESPECIALLY for those of us who are performance oriented and who are concerned about traction off the line with a modded, high HP Mini. i am more than posative that there is a market out there for people who want a mini with AWD and I, for one, am one of them. and since Mini is a BMW product, i pretty sure (or at least hoping) that they make it biased to rwd...(40f/60r ex.). oh, and i find it funny that the people who complain about the mini already being too heavy and that awd will only make it heavier are the same people who "dont care about performance". oh yea, and another thing.....how is the Mini NOT a performance car? they sure as hell advertise it as one!

 

I get the feeling most ppl on NAM care about performance. However, thats a fraction of the buying public worldwide.

MINI will have no problem selling all variations.

If you really want a fast car, go buy one. Trying to turn a MINI into something it was never intended to be is not what MINI appears to be headed.

For example, given the choice of a clubman and clubman AWD, many ppl will take the AWD just for the safety factor in snow.

 

The only problem with the AWD mini is...It's not going to happen, except for the Clubman. See Motoringfile and Mini2 for further details, but the initial source quoted got it wrong, and its being propogated by other car mags such as this one. Its too bad, but AWD in every model isn't happening.

 

I just wonder what kind of weight it will add? Adding 100-200lbs would make AWD a performance option. 400lbs and/or a bunch of luxury options kills much of any benefits. That's part of the problem with the VW/Audi R32/A3 AWD options, there is no basic low cost performance AWD option. I think that is where Subaru has excelled with the WRX.

If we can get a +150lbs basic AWD MCS for $1000 more than one with LSD that would be an interesting option.

 

You're making my point since the Honda is even longer yet lighter.
Way longer sedan or 5-door. What's the point?
Not much change from the R53--too heavy as always. What's the point?
Who cares?

 

I'd opine that AWD in the snow has caused as many accidents as it's avoided. AWD is not a substitute for judicious use of driver inputs and proper rubber on the road, err, white stuff.

 

This http://motoringfile.com/2006/12/04/m...dels-revealed/ from Motoring file is ambiguous and disheartening.

 

An AWD MCS with 170 hp Matt? Figure on at least a 20% drivetrain loss, added weight and less performance.

Anyway, they can do whatever they want. As an enthusiast, a AWD MCS isn't making my toes tingle. As a grocery getter, it may work.

Ooofa.

 

AWD Minis will sell - no problem there. Traction off the line is good but an AWD car handles differently at speed. Lift off the throttle or brake a smidge too hard going into a hard turn and .

Again 170 hp + more drivetrain loss + more weight does not equal sporting. 235 + AWD may work but at 235 hp I for one would not be checking the AWD option.

Second anyone here who thinks that a high hp Mini + AWD is going to make a good drag car needs to rethink their position. High HP + an AWD system designed for a 170 hp engine + a 5000 rpm launch = expensive repairs.

Ever wonder why the Evo and Subie boards are filled with stories of people wearing out their clutches at 2000 miles and wrecking their TCs? It's because people mod the crap out of them and then try drag racing them.

A lot of people here argue that straight line acceleration does not a performance car make. Therefore while a Toyota Avalon is quicker to 60 - it is not a sporting car because the Mini pwns it in the twisties. The Honda Fit turned in one of the fastest lane change times in C&D history - are we going to call it a sporting car too?

 

right now, AWD is contemplated only for the Clubman. But remember, there was a time when Mini said it wasn't interested in AWD at all!

And what all the bench racers here are still ignoring, is that they may not be making this option for you! If AWD had been high on your list, you wouldn't own a Mini! Instead of thinking how this offering isn't what you want, think about how it will allow Mini to sell to an even larger market of buyers.

You don't want a performance MCS with a 400 lb AWD system? Fine, don't buy one. But there are people out there who do. Lots thought that the Clubman was a bad idea, despite the accolades of those that wanted a larger Mini! This is the same exact thing. You don't want it, don't buy it. So far, it is still being talked about as an option. Be happy with that. If it's a dog, a bunch will sell, people will find out it's a dog and stop buying it. What I'm really hoping for is Mini getting experience with compact AWD systems with the Clubman, and then getting it into the smaller cars after they've gotten their feet wet.

As far as weight of cars getting to pig like, well, that's the nature of the beast. And for those that think that cars used to be light, my 65 Mustang convertable is a tubby 3100 lbs. I'm happy that smaller cars have crumple zones, side impact bars and the like. You want fast and light? Get a motor cycle!

I guess let the negative biatch fest continue..... It's pretty obvious that few are considering the decisions from the perspective of people who have to grow a brand, and not only give product to repeat buyers, but to give product that captures new classes of buyers as well.

In listening to a debate about something unimportant to this discussion, I heard the wonderful phrase "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good." What most do is say "this isn't perfect because of X, Y or Z". Instead, one might consider saying "this is an improvement over the current range of offerings because of X, Y or Z." Guess what, they both have the same information content, but one is "half full" and one is "half empty". I"m gonna choose to look at this one as half full, because it's a combination of technologies that a) will appeal to more buyers and b) will give Mini experience with the technologies to do it better later on more versions.

Matt