AWD Clubman will be awesome. Subaru's gas mileage blows (everything in the lineup basically is rated at 26 or 27 highway/20 or 21 city). I can't wait for an AWD Clubman so I can dump the '04 Forester. Not everyone wants (and few really need) 250 to 300 hp. Give me 170 to 190 hp in a good looking and good handling car and I'm all over it. Give me that same 170 to 190 hp and give me 36 mpg highway and I'm really all over it.

 

I must disagree with your assessment. The current Subaru Legacy has style/class/refinement. It's a rear biased AWD platform with a fat torque curve and a very nice interior. The next-gen Impreza/STI is based on this platform (for better ride Q and handling due to the multi-link rear end). 300+ hp in an AWD five door hatch rumored to be less than 3000lbs = interesting to say the least. (sidenote - the current '07 STI with it's new OEM turbo is putting down 300awhp and 380 awtq with a reflash and TBE)

 

Really? Then how come MINI OEM HP is so low?

 

Turning the Impreza into a Legacy? This would be typical. Marques tend to bloat as they get on in years--just as the MINI did. This is especially true when marques mature on the American market--having to expand to accommodate arrays of chins sagging below flapping jowls, all riding atop disgusting rolls of blubber as turbana-like fingers grope for a steering wheel, shifter, fries, and a big gulp. Years down the road, once they're done ruining the Impreza by turning it into a 4000+lb street yacht for fat Americans, Subaru will have to come out with an all new car to capture the Impreza market they will have abandoned.

 

Very interesting OB one, methinks...

 

whoa. chill with the haterade - you are thinking of Honda and the current 80's Accord sized Civic.

No, they will share the same platform, as the LGT uses a superior design (and you can't argue economies of scale of having one chassis to engineer). The new gen Impreza is said to be lighter than the current one, not a bloated version.

back on topic - I'll buy an R56 with AWD and 6sp manual. Slap a GT28 and larger FMIC on there and some meth injection and it'll scream.

 

"Is said" by whom--The Passive Voice Consortium? Anyway, it will be interesting to see if that will be the case since cars usually don't get lighter; they get heavier. The Impreza is already a pig. It could use a weight loss of hundreds of pounds. I don't take issue with the Legacy itself since it is a pseudo-luxury sedan marketed toward the herniated disc crowd.

 

a UK auto news source reports 1400kg as the new car's weight. click

 

"The car's" is the operative phrase here. When the weight is given, the article appears to be referring to the Impreza, not the STI. 1400kg is heavier than the current Impreza. The article does not say that it's the STI that will be "around 1400kg". Currently, the Impreza is 1371kg.

1400kg > 1371kg.

The current STI is over 300lbs more at 1523kg. So the STI will probably be >=1523kg. Maybe the added weight is from making the car (even) taller and wider than the current model despite being shorter (sans U.S.-spec bumpers).

 

LOL That is the very reason the 350Z is overweight--shared platform.

 

I hearby nominate you for 'Bench Racer of the Year - 2007'

 

I agree. In the early 70s in the wake of the second oil crisis, the auto industry did what Austin did in '58. They went small and front wheel drive. This was done because it made sense. Then they proceded to make the most of it (GTI). Make no mistake, this layout is what Europe has stayed committed to. And it's not fair to use bogus excuses about our large country and their narrow streets. We're gluttonous in the size of our cars and it's led to us using LITERALLY half of the world's oil. Clubman's not MINI's saviour, but if it pulls some SUV's off the road I'm happy.

I could condone a mid-engined super limited productions funster built as a loss leader, but not AWD as an everyday car. I think it'll be as popular as the 4matic and the Syncro. Remember those bombs?

Whoever decided to build an AWD MINI has already failed to understand what could make MINI a great marque. FWD cars did great in snow until Detroit convinced folks that every family needed 4WD, which lead to the terrible idea of AWD. AWD - always wasteful driveline.

Finally to folks here who are stating that 170hp is weak, you need a reality check. Excessive HP doesn't make your chest hairier or your ***** bigger. There is a point where overbuilding a car is wasteful. Doesn't mean I won't have fun tuning an R56 a bit, but IMO WRX HP is wasteful and to many of their drivers the cars are dangerous.

 

Only if acknowledging that 1400kg > 1371kg makes one a bench racer.

 

If you are after an economy car, then the MINI is already the wrong car for you. Try a European diesel or a Prius. MINI is not going to force anyone to get AWD. If you don't like it, you don't have to buy it.

AWD is not exclusively for the snow and is popular with performance enthusiasts. Subaru was powering all four wheels long before the American automobile marketing machine sold the idea of AWD to our Big Gulp public. An AWD car has different handling characteristics than a FWD or RWD car on dry pavement.

Not all of us think about performance in terms of whether it is attractive to the others. 170hp is economy power for a car as overweight as the MINI.

If you don't want power, you don't have to have it. This last bit of your post would have a better audience in an Impreza forum. They might have a different idea about how dangerous they are than we do.

 

OK, my list so far is an Automatic AWD Clubman S!

 

Since, as you've pointed out, 170 hp is "economy" power, then the MINI Cooper S must be an economy car, and in fact would be a very good choice for someone who is after such an economy vehicle. (Not to mention the nearly 40 mpg it gets under real-world driving conditions).

 

Cooper S gets 40mpg? <spits soda>

 

The R56 MCS gets 29 MPG City / 36 MPG highway.
The R56 MC gets 32 MPG City / 40 MPG highway.

 

The best I've ever gotten in my MCS is 31.

 

The R56 gets about a 20% boost in fuel economy over the R53 MCS thanks to direct injection.

 

this thread taught me a lot about Subarus and Mitsus....... But to all the nay-sayers that this is a "non-starter" you are forgetting that the Mini world wide is selling MUCH MORE than anticipated. That there is feedback from many areas that
1) A bigger car would help.
2) That AWD would help.
3) That more power would help.
4) That Diesel in the US would help.

And on and on. It doesn't matter if you're into road-course racing and the clubman doesn't appeal to you, because you're not the world-wide market! Same for AWD, or diesel or whatever. BMW has a bigger hit on their hands than they every imagined. So, now if you were in the driver seat, what would you do to increase the brand options and market appeal WORLDWIDE?

A bigger Mini would turn it into a Minivan for most of the rest of the world (seen the tiny delivery vans in Tiawan and the like?) and would open up markets. Lots would love AWD, even if the front driver is better at the AutoX (sheeze, my wife is afriad enough of the 2 days of snow every three years we get here, or the advantange of AWD driving to Tahoe and doesn't care about more power in the S).

So, while many here are comparing an AWD clubman to the virtual "perfect" Mini of the minds eye, I'm happy that they are growing the line. I'm happy that there will be more options, and I don't mind that some of the items under discussion won't be directed to making the S faster....

Matt

 

the mileage comment made was about a Cooper S, not a Cooper.

 

Yes, and he said nearly 40. So if you're spitting up soda over 36 mpg not fitting quite within your definitiion of nearly 40 (37/38/39?), you might want to get something checked.

 

The comment, as made, was that the Cooper S gets "nearly 40 mpg". The 36 mpg spec Dave quoted would qualify as "nearly 40 mpg" for most reasonable people.

However my comment was based on reading reports, such as the ones found in this thread at Mini2, where numerous owners of the new Mini Cooper S report gas mileage well above 36, including a few who state they have gotten over 40 mpg in their new vehicles.

 

I believe they are using british imperial gallons, for "american" gallons the MPG would be lower.