Chows,

I think we agreeing about the same thing, back in the 80's 'under 7 seconds' was considered quick, sub 6 seconds was blindinly fast, sub 5 was considered impossible....

Your RAV4 is extremely quick, for a tank and probably close to the top of the list of SUV's - being old-school I consider that a 6.n second 0-60 is quick.

Most of it is a moot point - the WRX is in the 5's....

The point I was trying to make was that a car that is quick to accelerate is not a car that makes a good 'first car', a 308GTS (I had one of these too once) is slower than an MCS to 60, but it is a really bad choice as a first car.

.....actually thinking about it, it is ideal, they are so unreliable that they would never actualy run for long enough to get the driver into trouble....

 

i think i could take a carrera gt 0-60

 

hypothetically speaking, how long would it take alta, and otehr companies to come out wiht mods for new 07's and wont there be alot of bugs/glitches for the 07 models? (since they are the 1st ones wiht new stuff)

 

I would say 6 months to a year before you start seeing some products. Nothing crazy, but things like exhaust, downpipe, intake, maybe intercooler replacements and such. I'd give it some time before any ECU software is out considering how long it took for it to come out for the current MINI. There are other ways to regulate boost though. And as far as exhaust, there isn't much to know for a turbo car. A simple 3" catless downpipe with a 3" cat-back (known as a turbo-back) would provide great gains.

EDIT: I am HOPING that Active Autowerke, based down here in Miami woot, will get into the R56 MCS. They do GREAT work with BMWs and hopefully will be interested in the new engine platform the R56 has to offer. Plus being a tuner down in the South will finally help us out down here.

 

Give it up Chows. The Mini is frighteningly quick. Live with the fact that your Cayman S is just a pulley, ECU flash and catback from being smoked - SMOKED!

Forget quoting magazines - those are just numbers. Hundred of portly NAM butt-dynos cannot be wrong - therefore you must be.

BTW: The Mini outperforms all of the serious sportscars from the 1940s. So put that in your checkboard pipe and smoke it. So by 1946 standards its a supercar. Your Porsche is nothing more than a overpriced Volkswagen. The Mini is an underpriced BMW, and somehow, that's better.

And stop telling everyone here that your RAV4 will smoke a MCS from a dig. Does your RAV4 fart when you downshift? Does your RAV4 have the cachet? The prestige? Does it attract women the way a Mini does? Can you get a Union Jack roof decal for your little hippo of a RAV4? No no, no and no. It's a tubby little box made by Toyota who makes the Prius and a bunch of other crappy hybrids.

Good night.

 

what happened? his caymen S got dusted by a MC?

 

Numerous times - hence his extreme bias.

 

Now that I've put Chows and his Mini hate-o-rade to rest - let me address your original question:

Get neither. If this is your first car, you need something safe and reliable that won't kill you on insurance.

The Mini is safe, but except for a few vociferous examples, is not reliable. The Subaru is safe, reliable but will kill you insurance wise. As stated in earlier posts, the WRX has some handling characteristics that can get an inexperienced driver in trouble. The Mini can also get you in trouble if you try hard enough.

When my kids begin driving they will get 1970s era Volvos. Yes, I know that a Mini can probably out-accelerate it and I know that you won't meet the woman of your dreams driving a Volvo (to meet a quality woman you definately need a cool car - that and Axe body spray). But a Volvo it shall be - low insurance, I won't worry about them ending up in a ditch drag racing, racy women/men will not find them attractive driving it and it will come out on top of anything less than an M1A1 in a frontal collision.

 

The car might come out on top, but not the occupants. A 70s Volvo is a complete death trap relative to contemporary cars. Safety engineering has come a long way in 30 years, even for Volvo. ABS? Airbags? My kids will likely drive something relatively big and slow, but not completely outdated in terms of safety. I love them way too much.

 

The whole series of posts were tongue in cheek.......

 

A total laugh riot...

 

Lighten up, Mr. Nader. Seriously, your posts have been very crabby this evening.......or maybe I'm reading them wrong? Threads like these make me long for the seminal days of the JCW vs. Mods threads. People seem to be touchier on NAM lately. Ol' Chows has gotten jumped a few times, Obehave took a couple of lumps when he dared question the M7 Mafia, Siddhartha took afew hits earlier in the summer..........or am I just getting more sensitive..........?

I figured the Axe body spray comment, the mischevious jab at Chows, the playful poke at superficiality and women would be dead give aways.....

My first car was a 1977 Saab 99 EMS - a veritable tank. My old man helped me buy it. I guess he didn't love me very much.......*sob*

 

Well, if you want a responsible first car, go for either of the normally aspirated models: the Cooper, or the Subaru 2.5RS. Both are cheap to insure, safe, economical - and fun.

 

my impressions of the WRX as well.....

from a "smile per mile" point of view I think the Mini is best hands down....... after 2 1/2 years I still love being behind the wheel....

 

keep in mind the '06+ WRX comes with a 2.5L now. Yes, the 2.0L was a laggy beast....that's why we ditched it for our LGT. The 2.5L has power below boost, so it's a smoother delivery with minimal lag. I'll assume the OP means new WRX vs. new MCS since there was mention of the R56.

Side note - I'm interested to see where tuning goes on the R56. Twinscroll, FMIC, LSD all from the facotry....all things point to big gains and ability in putting power down. I'm happy to enjoy a mature aftermarket with my '06 and watch others live on the bleeding edge for a change. If the car is shown to have potential, I'll be putting an order in for one in a year or so.

 

I finally drove my husband's STI recently, after learning how to drive a stick on my 06 MCSC, modded with pullies. I would have to say that I am filled with respect at the control my husband must be using everyday to not get killed in that thing or hauled off to jail. It is powerful and you feel it. I now call it the BEAST. I feel that if it were my everyday driver I would get in some hot water quickly, but with a smile on my face. BTW we are in our early 30's. I would not recommend this car to an unexperienced driver, but if you have track experience and can resist the urge to race at every single stoplight, (because everyone tries to race him, and he gets comments about his car all the time,) maybe you are worthy. That said, my husband has more than once mentioned trading the BEAST for a MINI. (He can't stand that I'm having so much fun in my car while he is constantly holding back the reigns in his.) Good luck on your decision!

 

I would agree that potentially niether of these cars are the best choice for a new car, but I myself jumped into a fairly powefull car at 16 and I'm still alive. I did however come from a racing family and grew up dirtbike and gocart racing so take that for what it's worth.

As far as the 07's and modding. I think the 07's will start to catch up with the 02-06's within about 1-2 years. Some where in there you will see the average r56 horsepower/performance start to equal the average r53 performance... In the modding community that is.

There is no doubt that with an turbo and some of the newer features the r56 holds more potential then then r53 did initially. So I'm not sure I would be too concerned about the aftermarket craze for the r56... it will catch up fast.

Returning to the first car issue. I'm not sure what makes a good first car. I'd guess in an ideal world it may be a na cooper, or a nissan sentra, honda civic or something of the sort. The truth is you can get in just about as much trouble in those as you could an S i think. The S will get you there faster granted (NOT SUPERCAR FAST ) but fast enough.

My advice is to treat whatever car you get seriously. You are sorta jumping in the deepend without quite knowing every aspect of swimming if you catch what I mean. Make sure you treat your vehicle with respect and keep in mind that the difference between fun and out of control in this level of car is a very thin line. As long as you always keep fresh in your head that you car is probobly more capable then you are... you will be fine.

Oh... and save some cash up for some performance driving school asap. Even if you manage to keep your whitts about you and not drive too spirited... being over prepared in 90% of road going situations has proven to be a godsend in my driving career.

cheers

 

Great suggestion, prime-drk-.

 

yeah, I was thinking about that on my way to work this morning... The 2.5 WRX has very little lag. I'd also go as far as to say "off boost" in the WRX has as much grunt as "on boost" in a MCS, but I have limited seat time a MCS so i could be wrong... The MINIs feel fast, while the WRX is fast. Not knocking the MINI, just saying I don't worry about them beating my WRX anytime soon in a straight line...

Also FWIW, I chipped my 2.0l WRX motor and is gets rid of 75% of the turbo lag. Makes the transition earlier and smoother. if you do an exhaust it makes this even better, but I didn't mention that earlier because I figure this is stock for stock on the comparison, and if anything gets modded it will probably be the MINI as it's base prices is well under the WRXs. As for other mods, I also put in a short throw shifter, so right now it feels like I'm rowing a damn boat in the MINI while the WRX is a flick of the wrist. But for reference, when my wife drives the WRX, she'll shift from 2nd to 5th because that's how small my throws are... I prefer them VERY short, she likes them longer....

This is the other reason I keep wanting the MINI. While the WRX is awesome, and VERY fast, I'm always finding my self WAY over the speed limit in my car w/o pushing it. In the MINI it's more of a conscous descision to break the law. not saying you can't get in trouble in either car, it's just that in the WRX you look down and you're doing 75 in a heartbeat, where in the MINI you feel like you need to push it a bit to get there. Probably partially due to the areos of each car, and the motor. The MINI is much more fun to drive and behave. Also you go through 1->2->3 in the MINI and you aren't really flying just yet, while in my WRX, the top of second comes up VERY QUICK and is over 60mph already.

This is with a base cooper and a plain jane WRX. NO 'S' or STi for us. So basically they are both fun cars. Depends on what you need, but the MINI is less expensive (base price, gas, and insurance) and more fun to drive, and harder to get into trouble with. The big reason we keep the WRX is because we "need" a winter go anywhere car, the the AWD and snows it awesome on the WRX. Although the more we drive the MINI in the winter, the more I am impressed with it. Put some blizacks on it and it might be good enough. I'll find out this winter. It's been fine on it's stock tires for 2 winters knowing we have the WRX just in case... But the MINI will get it's own blizacks this winter, and then we'll know for sure.

They are both great cars. The WRX is more of a raw speed beast car, where the MINI is more refined. I loved my WRX when i first got it, but now that I'm older it's a bit of a chore to drive such a fast car slwo all the time. I'd rather be able to drive the MINI and push it to 90% everyday, then have to drive my WRX around at 50% everyday though so it depends on where you live and how you will push the cars. As a new driver the MINI will get you into less trouble garanteed though. Not out of trouble mind you, but into less trouble.

Edit, oh an few more points. IMHO NASIOC.com > any of the mini forums. Also the community here is MUCH different than over there. There it's 90% 18~35 yo CPU geeks (boys/men). Here it's much more diverse. It seems subaru guys are MORE likely to MOD than MINI guys. Not that MINI people don't mod, just that the WRX people are more likely. Maybe that tell you the MINIs are better stock? Also the group meets are very different with the 2 different cars. My wife likes the MINI people, but the subaru people aren't up her ally as much. Subaru people = car geeks where the MINI people have a much more diverse background, and there are a lot more stock MINIs at meets. Worth mentioning. You decide what you like better.

Ben

 

Seconded on the Impreza. Very reliable, functional car and lots of fun. AWD will get you anywhere, anytime. Driving one of these hard in the snow is a complete blast and, arguably, more fun than the wrx. 165hp is more than enough for a novice driver. Plenty of aftermarket bits available if you want to do the rice-racer-mod thing. And you can pick up a good one still under warranty for $10k.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I think we have a winner.

 

Amen..

Plus, Chows, didn't you have the heavy R90s and heavy run flats on ur MC40? Sigh..

 

I've got an idea! Let's chill with the number-crunching, bench-racing pissing contest and think about the matter at hand: Some kid with a trash-talking ricer brother and a parental bankroll wants to buy a car. With comments like 'which one will be quicker off the line', and 'which one would win a race', I'd say no matter what the badge on the grille says, it's just going to be whatever he thinks will impress his friends the most and have the most effect in the local street races, right? Harsh, I know, but true.

Now, slamming aside. BOTH the WRX and MINI are great cars. Good price, build quality(yes, in both), and acceleration, braking and handling. The final vote is....apples and oranges. Anybody looking for a new ride needs to get the peer opinion and put it in the trash, and go drive cars until they are satisfied. I'm 26 years old, have owned over 20 cars, and have driven $100K+ cars through friends/connections. I can tell you that the MINI is NOT my favorite car, it's just very high on my list. I have driven stock and modified WRXs as well, and would still love to have one. I've also owned Hondas, with VTEC, and as cool as it is, and as nice as they are, they've become the 'ricer standard', and my personal standards have evolved.

So, ConfusedXPanda, go drive some cars, tell your brother to eat it, and buy what YOU like! Have a nice day.

 

For a first car, I'd agree with either the RS or the MC. My car before my MCS was a GC8 RS and I loved that car. Fantastic in the snow and just enough power to have a lot of fun with, but not so much to get in trouble with. The old GC8s hold their value pretty well too since Subarus took a turn for the worse with the bug eye and current body style.

 

Wow you certianly made some assumptions there... He wants a car and is asking some if not most of the right questions... who cares how he is getting it and what is aspirations are for what the car will do for him.

It's a valid comparison since the cars are equally priced and the question should be answered the same weather he is 16, or 60...

 

Impressive. You must have some real connections to get behind the wheel of a $100 car.