If you're contemplating buying anything else in the price range of a Mini over a Mini you should really do some reasearch about the Mini brand, especially under BMW ownership, then make a decision. If what the rest of these guys are telling you isn't enough, you should really consider the idea.

 

Neither was the WRX.

Check out Road and Track.

Earl

 

My roomate drives a WRX Limited.

He just bought a 2006 model. Its really nice, and it picks up great. The biggest thing with Rex's is that they haven't perfected that turbo lag. WRX has some of the worst lag out on the market and I can really feel it, but when it really starts to roll then you can feel yourself being pushed back into the seat =]

MINI on the other hand isn't something that is direct competition. MCS is most definetly fast and I'm amazed that so many people don't find 7.1s 0-60 that fast. It is well into the upper 50% of cars out there probably higher. I think its quite fast. =]

On twisties the MINI should win out but then I'm a bit skeptical as I have been in a WRX doing turns at about 70mph and it was holdng really well with the LSD and traction kicking in.

WRX's also are pretty reliable I hear, and the gear boxes I hear are really sturdy but I'd say its about as equal to a MINI. MINI will have more of that luxurious feel and it will be much more unique. The WRX is very plain jain other then the large hood scoop on the front. Its not really a car that people do double takes on which I can't stand. I have to stand out in the crowd! =]

I am on the 07 MINI list and I cant wait. BTW: My good friend has a RSX Type S, and he test drove an 06 with me one day and really played around with it. He was so incredibly impressed, and he actually thinks the MINI could take his RSX Type-S out in a straight race (I believe him too 0-60 times for each shows the MINI is on par or slightly better). Also someone mentioned the Speed 3 from Mazda.. That thing is more competition to the WRX (but without AWD). That car can pick up and go much faster then a MINI.

 

No, I was not joking at all. I am 100% serious.

The MCS is a very poor car to learn to drive in. In fact it is not a car in which you build your skills, it is more a car to hone them in. This assumes that you have some skills to begin wit.

The 7.2secs is closer to 6.2 seconds to 60mph. modify it a little and you are dipping in 1980's 911 turbo performance.

You say that your car is modified, the absolute best modification that you (as a newer driver) could make is to learn to drive it - take it autocrossing, go to high performance drving school etc.

There is a 99% probability that you cannot get close to being able to use it 100%, so raising the performance is utterly pointless, because you are just raising its potential and doing nothing about your skills. A 15% pulley does not make you a 15% better driver it makes the potential for putting yourelf into a situation from which you cannot recover all the bigger.

I realize that I am typing this to someone that does not want to read it, but think about it, there is a reason that young guys and fast/quick cars are an expensive insurance combination. It has a lot to do with the gap between their perceived skills and their actual abilities.

MCS/WRX are terrible learners cars, they are both unforgiving of low skill levels around the limit, the WRX especially so with understeer flicking to lift/off oversteer in an instant. The high grip (of both cars) means that in comparrison to a normal car, the cornering speeds at which it slides off the road is very high - therefore the crash is so much bigger.

Obviously this is not a rule set in stone, but think about it.

oh and my comparrision to an R1 was not literal, it was to demonstrate that there are no good choices. I am a motorcyclist too, and I see so many young guys on the street on brand new litre bikes that hammer down the straight and cannot get the bikes around corners, they cannot figure out why my 90hp Ducati is so much faster through the bends. It has nothing to do with the abilities of the bike, it is all the rider.

The same thin goes for cars, anyone can go fast in a straight line, even my wife or my son. However, where it matters in a car is in ones roadcraft abilities, the ability to read the road, the ability to judge conditions and deal with things. This takes experience.

The faster you reach these hazards, the faster you have to react, yet the lss your experience, the more the chances of getting it wrong.

Fast car, new driver == larger potential for a crash

get it ?

no ?

I thought not, new drivers also, sadly, assume that they are mire skillfull than anyone on the road

 

A WRX is a safer car (for all occupants) than a MINI. Period. Subaru's are known for their safety record and the WRX has pretty sophisticated reinforcing ring structure allowing for a 'safety cell' in the driver's seat. WRC drivers roll them and walk away - yes, with a roll cage - but the basic integrity of the car is built with this in mind.

The MINI has gizmos like DSC, TCS, etc. So what? It needs them because of FWD. The WRX has a proven AWD system that works and even with my modded levels of power on my Legacy (WRX's bigger brother), it's very hard to break the car loose unless you are being a buckethead. I can easily outdrive the e-nannies on my MCS.

If you want advice - buy a standard Cooper for a first car. Ample acceleration and less temptation to speed. The WRX is EXPENSIVE to insure because of all the young punks wrecking them. We sold our WRX wagon when the bill started to climb...the LGT wagon is a sleeper and cheap to insure (for now).

 

Whats up with everyone and the speed issue?
As most of you guys know, I drove a Corvette for a while, and I guess I am in the minority of performance car drivers.
I never drove fast. I never pushed it to its limits. It was just my car, and I loved it. My car had the ability to go upwards of 160mph, but never got anywhere near that.
The car was quite heavily modded, it had no creature comforts at all, and in general it was a pain to drive around as my daily driver. Especially when I would take my girlfriend out, the engine noise in the cabin because unbearable at times. After long trips, we were practally deaf.

In general, what I am trying to say is, buy the MINI if you like to have some luxury with some pep. Buy the WRX if must have speed and are willing to sacrifice creature comforts for it.

Just my .02 cents.

Medic

 

ok here is my take on it...

The STI will have a higher potential for power. It has larger displacement and there is no replacement for that. (if you disagree you are wrong, sorry) It also has all-wheel drive and great traction. Also the STI's engine has been out longer than the "new" 2007 MINI engine. Which means you will have to wait a while for BIG impact mods to come out if you choose the MINI route.

On the other hand, the MINI i believe will perform better in the "tight" turns, such as autocross. The MINI's short wheel base and light weight, really help it transfer weight in the turns and allow for quick direction changes. Where as the STI favors the high speed sweeping turns, and straights. But of course driver can make all the difference.

But in the end...no matter how fast you make an STI. Its still a 4 door...

Something about 4 doors just doesnt scream sexy sports car to me. No matter how powerful it is.

STI = extremely fast grocery getter

 

If you're a dude then the Mini is the Car to get because chicks dig it.

If you're a chick then the Mini is the Car to get because well it is a sweet car, oh and chicks dig it.

The WRX is call cool car, but IMO the Mini draws a lot more attention and really seems to be a car that is not cheaply made. The WRX just seems cheap IMO.

 

I agree, i think the MINI's syle has alot more personality than the STI. To me the STI just looks like every other 4 door sedan with a scoop slaped on and a giant wing.

just my .02

 

I totally agree about the four doors part. When I was looking into MINIs and such, there were alot of cars I was interested in, but I cannot stand a four door car. How often do you drive multiple people around? Personally, its never more than two.

Medic

 

My first car was a subaru svx. I got it stock and dumped all my hard earned cash from working 2 jobs into from when i was 14-18.

The car ended up stupid fast for the driving skill that I had. Sure it had awd but I learned some hard lessons about high speed 4 wheel drift and subaru understeer at really the wrong times. That being said I did spend ALOT of time strapped in and rally racing it until i drove the wheels off of it.

All in all it was a good car but a horrible first car. It was too fast, took too much skill to drive at it's limit, was too expensive to fix and was horrible... absolutly horrible on gas milage (8-11mpg by the time I was done with mods).

Now that scubaru wasn't a wrx but performance wise it was very similar in handling characteristics, weight etc etc.

That being said it's obvious you are looking at the upper mid strata of moderate performance cars. And out of the two I'd tend to say the 07mcs would be the smart choice both saftey wise and fun factor wise.

Here is my un-ordered list of reasons:
1) the look. Alot of people drive subaru's... now it may have a cool factor while you are younger but as you age and become a car enthusiest you will probobly stive to look different. Wether it's finding some unique rims or w/e... the mini starts you off on a more unique platform then the wrx.
2) Economy... The mini gets much better gas milage and has the possiblilty of holding a better resale value
3) Saftey. The wrx is a good handling car and very safe. However, when things go haywire... it's hard to recover. Trust me the awd in theory makes it safer for you to get out of trouble. But in reality it's brakes and the weight of your car that brings you to a stop... not the awd. In my case, it got me into more trouble then it got me out of.
4) Giving people rides. When you have a mini... you are destined to not be the ride slave. Having your car full of screaming friends may seem like a fun thing... and it is for the first week. But beyond that it sux... you are much better off throwing people the line... hey u could sit in my backseat... but do you really want to. Find a girl and ur mini instantly becomes a 2 seater.

As for the other comments in this thread. Some one said the mini wasn't a good car to learn to drive in. That's completly WRONG. This car can and will teach you alot about corner braking and corner roll speed that a subaru will just glaze over by pressing the throttle and powering through it. The mini is perfect for someone starting off learning to performance drive because if you ever get into a situation that it's hairy... you can just let off the throttle and put the wheel in your fingertips and the car will come around for you. The subaru line of cars requires a bit more finesse and a solid knowledge in weight transfer undesteer/oversteer/braking conditions in my mind to do that same thing. Sure the mini is capable of getting you into trouble... but so is a neon... or an intrepid... or w/e other car you can find that can go over 40mph, the difference is the mini has the ability to get you out of most of the things you will get yourself into with ease.

As for the gearbox... the 07 gearbox is supposedly a 200% improvement over the gertrag. So if you are honestly looking for an 07 i would clear this concern out of your mind.

The mini is easier to drive fast, and more importantly fun. The car is fun where it counts, short shoots, quick direction changes... the stuff you do much more often the stoplight drags. It's fun where it counts and you don't have to be wide open throttle and going 100000000mph to be having a good time. Oh and as for the girls thing... LoL I mean a honda... well I'm not sure what kind of girls you are going after but if you weigh any honda vs. a mini (aka a car made by bmw...) and the girl would rather be in the honda... I don't think you want that girl around. So it gets my vote...

gl

 

Honda makes great engines but the styling (if you can even call it style ) of their cars seriously lack personality. My 95 Accord V6 was a good looking car with a good engine, but in no way does it come close to matching the MINI in terms of fun. As for the RSX, my friend has a non-type s and I'm not much of a fan. Its a very solid car, but again, not much personality.

 

I totally agree. In high school I drove an 89 Volvo 740 Turbo Station Wagon. That may not sound like a car that can get you in trouble but it can, and it was a miracle that I didn't have any serious incidents while learning to drive. Any car can get you into trouble when inexperience and immaturity is involved. The thing I love about my MINI is that I can have fun without going too fast. I'm never tempted to drive obscene speeds because my Cooper just doesn't get up there as easily as other cars I've had. So it's a good car for me to have at this point as I try and avoid getting more speeding tickets. The common mentality is that cars need to have really fast 0-60 times or they aren't worth much. But unless you put it to use in productive ways (ie. at the track) you'll only be tempted to race other cars at stoplights and in the process endanger lives. Therefore, it's probably not a good idea to have that power unless you're responsible with it.

 

ANY car can get you into trouble. The MINI can help get you though because its forgiving. I didn't learn how to drive stick in my MCS but I surely didn't know how to do anything other than driving normal. As far as driving manual, I have gotten a lot better. And as far as driving period, I have gotten a lot better and yes, all in the MCS. I learned how the car responded to weight transfer and corner braking and all the fun stuff. All in all, I think anyone that says a MINI, MCS or not, is not a good first car is just wrong. I'm entitled to my opinion as you are to yours. Only mine comes from personal experience...

I think you'll be happier with the MINI. And to whoever put words in my mouth, I never said MINI UPGRADED to the turbo for tunability reasons. It's simply a new engine and turbo is more efficient so was the preferred form of forced induction. However, it WILL be very tunable.

Oh and, stock for stock I'm not sure who would win in a straight line. But my MCS with the mods below left my friend's RSX Type-S (intake, exhaust) in shock. And as I drove past him I yelled "VTEC THIS!" haha...

W/E car you get, just have fun in it and be safe. And don't think you know all there is to know about driving, cause you don't and it'll get you in trouble. Learn little by little, don't get too far ahead of yourself... That's how I've been taking it and it's worked out well for me, still learning today and hoping to get into autocross...

 

Of course this occurred on a track and both drivers were wearing appropriate safety gear.

 

WRONG!
Unless you're talking about the wagon WRX... We have a 2003 MINI cooper and a 2004 WRX sedan. the MINI can hold MUCH MORE than the WRX...

What's up Patagonia!

OK, My out look, owning both cars, the WRX is faster and a very nice safe car. It has AWESOME AWD which we need living in NE and skiing all winter. That said, I'd take the standard MINI as my choice if the wife would let me. She hates the WRX though so I have to drive it as my DD. We own it so it's not worth the loss trading it in until the insurance goes up a little too high ($600/6months now versus $400 for the MINI)... The WRX also gets worse gas mileage. The tranny on the WRX is fine, mine has 75k worry free mile on it. The MINI's tranny in better, but the WRX is fine. Stock for stock the MINI handles better. it's more fun to toss around too. As for the interior, the MINI has a much "cooler" feel to it, but after owning both, the MINI's interior is just as cheap as the WRX's. It appears to be very nice, but it's the same plastic crap and gets the same issues after 3 years. The MINI is surprisingly good in the snow though, even w/o snows. WRX will beat it, but the MINI is adequit.

So, both are nice cars. I own both and have for 3 years for both (more on the WRX. I'm getting tired of my WRX so I'm a little down on it... When I drive the wifes car I'm always smiling and enjoying it. I get back in my WRX and it's very vanilla until you burry the gas pedal... Then it's fast compared to the MINI (or even 'S'). i have suspension work and wheels tires on mine so it's handles very well for a AWD pig, close enough to the cooper for DD purposes.

So:
Interior, same basic build quality, but the MINI appears nicer

Handling, MINI wins stock, and probably still ahead of my modified WRX

Mileage, much better in MC, but both "need" 91+

Exterior:debatable

Cargo room: WRX Wagon > MINI > WRX Sedan (we have roof racks on both)

Cost: MINI wins, hands down

Warantee: MINI, plus free oil changes/anything but tires till 40,000 miles

Seats: WRX by MILES... The MINI really needs better seats (and we have the sport seats)

In the long run, knowing what I know, I'd pimp out a MC (non 'S') for myself as my next car over the WRX. The WRX has been a great car, but my third subaru in a row. I've realized I don't need AWD (especially if I get snows), and the lower insurance and gas costs of the MINI would save us a few grand over the life of the car, and the car itself would be less expensive (although not by much once I'm done shopping)... I'm thinking the new 07s will be even better with the better MPG and 6 speed on the MC. My next car will be a MC, Rabbit (if they sell us the TDI), FIT, or another subaru only if they give us the diesel (maybe an LGT?)... But I'm planning on putting another ~3 years into the WRX before I'm done with her. I drive my cars into the ground so that the cost a little less...

Ben

 

Of course..

 

Of course I'm talking about the wagon. What possible reason is there for buying the sedan? It's completely useless. Both versions are butt ugly so please don't say it's about aesthetics.

Oh... sorry.

 

well... if you need a car to help you look macho, then get the wrx... but if your macho enough and want a cool go-kart type of car, then mini..

I like my Mini and I really don't car what people think about it...

 

Chicks DIG MINIs.. they think its soo cute.. but they like it. Not once has a girl called me gay for driving a MINI. Most girls don't even know what Subaru is.. maybe that's something to think about..

 

i think that convinced me

 

hahahaha i just thought about that and it makes sense.

 

Wrong. Published figueres on an 06 MCS are 6.8 - 7.3 (from the MINI website and Edmunds)

JCW times from R&T are 6.4 or so

Now a modifed MINI is going to smoke a 911 Turbo? Thats so funny I might faint. My 86 911 Carrera was factory claimed at 5.9. A 930 Turbo had to be around 4.8 Yeah, show me a MINI outside of FBT pulling 4.8:impatient

 

Odd that my GPS has confirmed 0-60mph of 6.3 seconds, and a 0-100kmh of 6.7 seconds, maybe I have a fast one ? I am also sure that the 6.2-6.4 seconds is the time most often thrown around, but anyway, sub 7 seconds puts it it the 'seriously quick' bracket. The only mods I have are lightweigth wheels and a 15% pulley and a factory LSD - pretty common ones really.

Now, having owned 911's from 1979 through to 'mid 80's' and again during the 90's, back in the 80's a six-second 0-60 (actually 0-100kmh as I lived in europe) was considered supercar territory.

I have a lot of Porkie experience, I know what they are capable of, and I know what the MCS is capable of too.

Don't believe me ?

1968 Porsche 911 Sportomatic 10.3
1981 Porsche 911 SC 6.7
1983 Porsche 911 SC Cabrio 7.0
1984 Porsche 911 Carrera 6.2
1986 Porsche 911 Cabriolet 5.7
1986 Porsche 911 Turbo 5.0
1989 Porsche 911 Cabriolet 6.5
1989 Porsche 911 Club Sport 5.7
1989 Porsche 911 Speedster 6.0
1989 Porsche 911 Turbo 5.1
1990 Porsche 911 Carrera 2 5.4
1990 Porsche 911 Speedster 6.0
1991 Porsche 911 Carrera 2 Tiptronic (auto) 6.9

See what I mean - an MCS at 'sub 7 seconds' is in 1980's 911 territory - in fact it is possibly quicker than most...

As for other Porkies

1970 Porsche 914 13.9
1973 Porsche 914 12.5
1973 Porsche 914S 10.5
1974 Porsche 914 2.0 8.9
1976 Porsche 924 12.6
1980 Porsche 924 10.6
1980 Porsche 924 Turbo 9.3
1980 Porsche 924 S 9.8
1982 Porsche 924 Turbo 9.2
1987 Porsche 924 S 7.8
1988 Porsche 924 S 8.5
1977 Porsche 928 6.7
1978 Porsche 928 7.0
1980 Porsche 928 7.4
1982 Porsche 928 8.1
1984 Porsche 928 S 7.0
1985 Porsche 928 S 5.9
1986 Porsche 928 S 6.3

Ok - So, Ferrari's - they are Supercars ?

1980 Ferrari 308 GTS 6.9
1981 Ferrari 308 - Dino GT4 7.8
1981 Ferrari 308 GTSi 7.9
1983 Ferrari 308 GTBi Quattrovalvole 6.8
1986 Ferrari 328 GTS 5.6 (C&D May 86)
1988 Ferrari 328 GTS 6.7
1989 Ferrari Testarossa 6.2 14.2

In other words, race Magnum or Crocket and you probably stand a chance !

1979 Lamborghini Countach S 5.9
1982 Lamborghini Countach S 5.7

Sticky tires, non-stock wheels, 15% pulley and a few other mods and you are into Countach baiting territory.

Like I said - an MCS with its 'sub 7 second' 0-60 times is right in the middle of 1980's supercar territory. Add a few mods and you are seriously worrying a lot of older supercars.

So, is a Ferrari 308GTSi a good car as a first car ?????

 

R&T says 6.3 for JCW. MINI say 6.8 for MCS. If you don't believe, them, then I guess dont.

I think your other numbers confirmed what I said.

I said I had a 86 911 Carrera at 5.9, your numbers show 5.7
I said a 930 Turbo should be 4.8 and probably is.

SO show me a 4.8 MINI other than FBT?

I like the Countach numbers because there was a special on TV that showed them and even said by todays standards, they are not supercars.

You wrote:

Odd that my GPS has confirmed 0-60mph of 6.3 seconds, and a 0-100kmh of 6.7 seconds, maybe I have a fast one ? I am also sure that the 6.2-6.4 seconds is the time most often thrown around, but anyway, sub 7 seconds puts it it the 'seriously quick' bracket. The only mods I have are lightweigth wheels and a 15% pulley and a factory LSD - pretty common ones really.

Actually, there is a big variane between MINI engines. Someone posted on MINI2 after testing many engines on the dyno the variance was between something like 15 Bhp. Maybe you did get a quick one.

But as to the statement ...my GPS has confirmed 0-60mph of 6.3 seconds ... sub 7 seconds puts it it the 'seriously quick' bracket

I will just say this. MINI does an excellent job of thinking your going fast and your not. It has ALL the right sounds. The SC whines, the exhausts pops and cracles, and the car is tiny so you get the "perception" your going fast ...

I just bought a 06 Rav4. 0 - 60 in 6.3 (Motor Trend test). Does that make the SUV "seriously quick" Actually, it does push me back in the seat harder than the JCW ever did. But I just cant consider a 7 second car serously quick

4 second cars are seriously quick. R&T tests have shown 997S, 997TT, Z06, all pulling sub 4 sec numbers

THOSE are serously quick.