I can assure you that there will be "enthusiasts" that will choose the R56 because they believe its a superior platform. And they will likely consider others that would compromise on the R53 nostolgic romantics.

If you intend to mod your car the shade of difference you see means little. If you are going to tell me that a rougher bump on your bum, or a less civilized ride on a stock Mini gives the R53 more credibility as an enthusiasts car, well - that's your very own 07 hood scoop. Knock yourself out.

You want the sweet whine of a supercharger over the superior performance of a new engine desgin - indulge yourself. But don't posture that this is the enthusiasts choice ride.

I give that post an "oh Broooother!" and two "What?"s

 

No, not really, look at my last post...I think you're taking that too literally. Although I consider myself more of an enthusiast, it's by degrees--there are certainly people that are more of an enthusiast than I am, but as at least a leaning toward an enthusiast, the changes bother me. There will be people that prefer the R56 that are more into cars than I am; there aren't any absolutes here, merely trends. And wether your more of an enthusiast or casual driver, it really doesn't matter--I don't look at it as a positive or negative connotation one way or the other. I see what you're getting at, I've seen the "I'm an enthusiast and your not" (and the implied "I'm better than you" that comes along with it), but that's not where I was trying to go with this.

To sum it up in one sentence, the majority of people are going to like whats happend to the Mini--its certainly more refined and accessible to most drivers; on the other hand a substantial minority of us feel it came at the cost of the car losing a certain amount of the edginess that made it popular to us in the first place. Not enough to ruin it, but enough that many of us prefer the previous generation (Ok, I lied, two sentences....).

And that's why I think it's pointless to keep arguing this--both viewpoints are entirely legitimate, and I think the chances of anyone in here changing anyone's mind on it are about as likely as Rosie and Donald getting married.

And Lava, while I agree with you, the converse is also true: There will be those of us who prefer the R53 as the superior platform for what we want out of the car, specificially when it comes to modding it. You could take it a step further; if you wanted the best platform for the money, you wouldn't necessarily be buying a Mini in the first place....We all want certain things out of the car, we want it to look a certain way, perform a certain way, etc. I'll wager there will be many who prefer the R56 at the track, but I'm also willing to bet when the dust settles there will be those who prefer the R53. There is plenty of room for both.

 

cct1 - excellent summary -- Thanks
I think the rehashing will continue. New people come here everyday and I don't think most will read back posts.
Can not say I agree with all of it and I'm sure you agree it isn't the definative analysis.
I did order an 07. My decision didn't put as much weight on individual changes, but took more of an overall view - visually and technically.

 

I've tried to refrain from posting in this thread but I just gotta say something! To me the R56 is a much better looking car than the R53. There I said it. The lines are better, it looks more aggressive. I like the larger wheel arches, I like the higher belt-line. I dislike the slats on the R53 and welcome the honeycomb on the R56. I also think the R53's hood slopes too much and welcome the hood of the R56. Also "An S wouldn't be an S with out a go faster hole". Thank you Fifth Gear for that one! But that does not make much of a difference to me as I am buying the car for the way it handles and drives. I've been following mini's since 03 when I was tempted to buy one but at that time the cost was too high and waiting period was too long. I love the R53 and I love the R56 but I will be buying an R56 because it is what is available for me to buy new and configure to my liking.

 

Hey Zip, in hindsight that was pretty thoughtless and a poor example. I apologize.

cct1, you are a tough guy to disagree with ...you do a great job substantiating your points.

 

It's sad to see such a division in the MINI camp. I consider myself an enthusiast; I picked the R56 MCS. I don't mind having civil features, and it will be nice to be able to take my car-to-be to the local Kroger to get milk (although I'll probably park out in the far-40). That isn't why I bought the car, though--it's because MINIs put a grin on my face every time I drive one, and I can't wait to drive the local twisties! And it boggles the mind to say that the enthusiast can't drive a MC. Sounds elitist to me.

I remember this "sky is falling" talk when the Z4 BMW came out, and it was a far more vigorous redo than the R56 is. And guess what? The sky DIDN'T fall, and people DID continue to enjoy their sports cars, just as much. Give this car a chance and I'll bet it will be a nonissue in a couple of years.

Meanwhile, my car has finally reached production status, according to my MA. It's still at least a month before I can enjoy it. Hopefully my daughter and son-in-law will continue to feed the flames with their two R53s.

 

aesthetics will always be debatable.
I also prefer the MCS grill among other things.

 

"And it boggles the mind to say that the enthusiast can't drive a MC. Sounds elitist to me."

I said that and I have previously apologized for it. Trust me, I am anything but elitist. I may choose my words poorly from time to time and make a bad judgement every now and again, but elitist I'm not.

dean.

 

No. No I'm not (hence the smileys that look somthing like this: and ).

My intention was to point out that broad generalizations in this thread have usually deteriorated rapidly soon after. The printed word is very subjective. What you may have meat to say, vs. what many interprit can be very different things.

And by the way, that was way longer than a one sentence summary!

See, again with the smiley face. What could it mean!?!

 

While I agree with the sentiment, the Z4 (at least at its initial release) is perhaps not the best example:

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geurqvS6...ticleId=106581

I personally love the Z4 (especially the coupe, which looks like a different car from the ragtop), and granted sales picked up late this year with the introduction of the coupe, but I would be hard pressed to call the Z4 an unqualified success at its initial release--I think the "sky is falling" is probably closer than unqualified success so far with the Z4. The coupe will hopefully change that.

 

Wow, I finally read this whole thread! (really nasty weather here in north TX and nothing better to do).
This has been a really good discussion on the differences from the pro, con and extreme points of view.
As someone here said, I consider myself dedicated to the brand. I've owned a MC and 2 MCSs so far and I currently have R56 MCS on the dock waiting to be shipped.
The R56 is not a replacement for my current 04 MCS/JCW but will be the MINI of choice for most daily driving with the R53 reserved for track days and those days when just need something a bit less refined. Since I'll have one of each, I can support the virtues of both!
I'm happy that the R56 has a 'softer ride'.
I long for the extra leg room.
I don't care for the 'gap'.
I like the idea of the scoop, even if it's fake, because it continues to make the MCS easily distinguishable from the MC.
I'm not really wild about the new dash and center stack treatment but I'm sure it'll grow on me.
Originally, I was going to wait until near the end of the R53 and order a 06 out of fear that the R56 might have a few too many bugs and a fear of turbo cars. I've had some bad experiences with turbo'd cars in the past.
But to be totally honest, styling and performance issues aside, the ONE thing that made up my mind to go with the R56 was the new Mellow Yellow color. How's that for sound reasoning!

 

lol vader That's a GREAT reason!!!!
Maybe we can start a new thread -- "Real enthusiasts drive _________ colored R56s."

 

While I really like the new interior, this just seems like a slap on the face... Take a look at this R56 after thought (from xandashoots on flickr). I know MINI spent a quite a bit of effort designing the R56 interior.... but couldn't they have found a better place or even a better button to integrate the aux lights?

 

I just looked through tons of photo galleries from detroit - linked from Motoring file.

What do people think of the "carbon fiber" interior by JCW? To me this stuff is totally gratuitous. The hood scoop connoisseurs gotta hate this phony stuff, no?

(oh - and no shift pattern on the carbon fiber **** - what do you do, put it on a sticker on the center console...?)

 

I don't think it is a fair comparison - choosing a dashboard surface or something like that that has no inherent functionality aspect for appearances seems completely different then having something added that by design should perform a function. I don't personally care about the hood scoop thing it is just the logic didn't mesh for me on that comparison - its more like big exhaust tips with no real improved exhaust airflow/performance behind it, or roof air intakes that don't work like the 06 Exige had actually I think

 

I think its the same thing - I think the carbon fiber is worse however. The hood scoop in this case - there is controversy as to whether or not it lets air into the engine compartment, or if Mini is hedging this for tuners to use.

Carbon fiber on the other hand - a light weight high strength aerospace material - should be used for significant structural pieces or reducing significant weight, or at least for aerodynamic add ons. The wing - yes. Parking brake handle - what!? Replacement hood - right on. The steering wheel - oh brother!

Look - any plastic can provide light weight in these places. They've reduced carbon fiber to wall paper. All bling and no go. To me that is embarrassing. And I'm sure its expensive too. Well pony up, the jokes on you.

 

Well, you may think it is tacky but it is just a matter of cost if people like the look, like metallic paint vs no cost, or painted dashboards, expensive wheels, etc - lots of manufacturers use CF in places and amounts where it is just for looks, it does not imply any actual function. To each their own, I just think its different (then the aforementioned no function hood scoop).

 

Back in the '60s, when i was just a lad, my Dad wanted to wood panel one wall of the little dining room in our apartment. But instead of paneling it with wood paneling, he bought, and put up, wood panel-look wall paper. It was no doubt cheaper, and it looked like wood paneling (sort of) until you got close. I thought it was kind of tacky, even as a kid. Maybe that's why I don't go in for fake stuff these days.

Zip

 

lol,
I think your dad went to the same home improvement place my dad did. Did you dad put fake wood contact paper on shelves, like mine did?
Lol
I think the surfaces we're talking about here are a little different though. I wouldn't get CF but more because I think it's too dark for my taste not because it's trying to be something it's not.
Jim

 

I have a few carbon fiber bits on my sportbike.

For all the realistic weight savings though, I could probably just skip a meal on race days. I like how it looks.

Don't like the dash... but that's just me.

 

Whenever I see a carbon fiber dash, I always look for the bees and honey. Darned thing looks like a honeycomb. I really don't like the look, but it's an individual preference.

 

I've got carbon fiber bits on my bike as well, and I like the look. It's mostly an aesthetic thing, though I shaved a few pounds installing a carbon fiber after-market exhaust. But I haven't been terribly impressed by how it weathers. Some of mine has started fogging (especially those parts that get direct sunlight).

Of course, this probably wouldn't be a factor on the indoor bits of the car...

 

I don't really feel that strongly about the carbon fiber, but I think it illuminates inconsistencies in our aesthetic judgment.

For instance, how many of you false hood-scoop hating mini jockeys live in colonial style houses with wood grain vinyl siding? Perhaps it has gas lamps with electric bulbs on the front wall, or a garage door with raised panels stamped out of steel. Perhaps it has dimensional roof shingles that are supposed to look like cedar shakes. Or if you are living large maybe you have a corian countertop that is patterned to look like stone. Maybe at work you got a nice big cherry wood desk with a particle board core - a fox hunt scene on the wall squire?

 

Someone should start a thread purely for carbon fiber-related issues.

So what if someone wants carbon fiber solely for its aesthetic attributes? It could be worse. That person could be wearing a fur coat and crocodile skin boots while driving their cf-littered Mini.

To each his own.

 

Foop-haters live authentically stylish lives free of unintended post-modern irony. So, like, spare us. :D