That is exactly what I said.

 

You can buy most brands directly from the manufacturers in China. Almost none are made in the USA and average cost is $6-$18 range without the brand on them. And then they mark them up. But I challenge anyone to actually test any can you feel is "good". It is easy and accurate. Simply install the RX can in series AFTER any can you think is benefiting your engine. Start with both oil and "gunk" free. Drive 2000 miles and then drain both and document what they trapped. The RX will trap 2-5 times as much AFTER the first can did its best (don't we install these to stop the oil ingestion? Why would stopping only 15% of it be as good as stopping 95%?). Now clean both and reverse the order and only droplets will get past. Not a small disparity but a huge ones. This is an example: https://themustangsource.com/forums/...rt-2-a-532449/ There are several others, all done by those testing the claims independently. Here are examples of the cans that most have simply the logo added. An empty small can as most are work no better than a beer can with 2 fittings. Browse these and you will find most every brands can without the logo. But not a one of these in testing traps more than app. 15% of the suspended oil and gunk allowing 85% to pass through them and still be ingested: https://www.alibaba.com/trade/search...viewtype=&tab=

Here is a very long test a GM tech did that was promoting Moroso (same basic design as any of the Billet cans) and took the challenge. He conducted this over 6 months. Long but very thorough:
The other thing is not a single other system provides the full time evacuation (unless copied).

 

This is my setup, and what came out of (mostly) the vacuum side can after about a month of driving. Needed to replace the stock intake to make room for the lesser spotted vacuum line can, and had to slightly modify the DMM Street intake to make room for it (drill a couple of holes and move a support rod). All seems to work OK, with added fffssshscchht on upshifts. I bought the very fine GTT cans and fittings from a used part reseller for a not cheap but not horrendous price and was going to put an intake on regardless. Cant really see a downside other than having to remember to empty the cans now and then, and had a bit of fun fabricating an aluminum and fibreglass bracket to hold the second can.

GTT catch cans and DMM street intake

 

When we dyno before and after valve cleaning we generally see around 15-20 WHP regained. Intake valves are very precise in their design with undercut stems and satin swirl finishes and precise approach angles. Any coking deposits will disrupt and restrict the incoming flow so the A/F ratio for each cylinder will begin to vary. Those with the more severe deposits will run richer as the ECU is commanding each injector to deliver the same amount of fuel, and some will be lean as they have less disruption. Ideally you want the same air and fuel in each cylinder. The other issue is the valve guides are a softer brass alloy and the coking is like sandpaper on a GDI engine. Every cycle of the valve opening and closing draws this hard abrasive into the guides wearing them prematurely. Something that disappeared when the industry transitioned from Carburetors to port fuel injection for decades is now back with a vengeance. These are not bad engines, they just require steps to be taken to address the issues ALL GDI engines have:https://www.google.com/search?q=GDI+...&bih=635&dpr=1 Most piston failures are from LSPI caused damage. Most bearing failures are from excessive fuel dilution and the high levels of abrasive particulate matter shed that reaches the oil. That's why it is critical to use a 5w40-50 full synthetic. I have shelves of pistons as we are an engine shop showing all of this and damaged crankshafts and rods from spun bearings that failed due to these GDI specific issues.

 

The system Mad Max has provides full time evacuation suction so there should never be any pressure able to build unlike most every other design so oil is not pushed backwards into the air intake. And it comes with a billet clean side separator to deal with that in the event some could.

 

This explains most all anyone would want to know to understand the Mini PCV systems. I urge all to read it carefully.

All engines have a certain amount of blow-by. That blow-by consists of combustion byproducts consisting mainly of 70% water and acids (acids are formed during the combustion process and attack the metals internally. The main one being sulfuric. The oil additive that has properties to combat this is TBN), 23% raw unburnt fuel (that washes down the cylinder walls and dilutes the oil so it is barely protecting as a GDI engine introduces the fuel at 1,000-3,000 PSI vs the old port injection engines at 45-55 PSI, so it pushes 8-12 times the amount of fuel past the rings)., and 7% is oil saturated with abrasive particulate matter (mainly ash/soot/carbon). IF you delete or defeat any of the functions of the PCV system, these stay in the crankcase and settle mixing with the oil and accelerates wear and damage if they are not flushed and evacuated (sucked out) the foul/dirty side of the PCV system. Filtered fresh MAF metered air in one portion of the crankcase to flush and make up for the foul contaminant laden vapors being evacuated (sucked out) the opposite portion. The shortcoming on the Mini is no evacuation when in boost, and excessive oil vapors included in the combustion byproducts cause intake valve coking...the Mini, and BMW engines as a whole have more severe issues than many other automakers, but ALL GDI engines have all of these issues. And if you use a synthetic blend oil the petroleum based portion is a large part of what causes those formations to build. Run ONLY a full synthetic oil in a GDI engine. And to help counter the fuel dilution that reduces actual
viscosity to far too thin. and that adds to wear and failure issues. Also, as the valves having no fuel contact as in the past, operate at far higher temps so the deposits bake into a hard crystallin structure that is extremely abrasive. Same consistency as sand. And that scores cylinder walls and piston skirts and rings if an engine running solvent based cleaning is done. They are only safe in the old port injection engines. Then with GDI engines we have a new phenonium known as LSPI (Low Speed Preignition). This is when the oil vapors and unburnt fuel get trapped behind the rings and if it ignites, breaks the piston at usually the top ring land. Far too often the land stays in place and oil consumption increases and the occasional misfire and is often missed in diagnosing. So, the PCV is far more than a pollution control system, it has several functions that are critical to engine life and other issues. So the solution is NEVER to vent or delete, bit to enhance the current functions. One way is to add a secondary evacuation suction source and a series of special checkvalves so the crankcase always has suction pulled. This prevents pressure from building in the first place, so the crankcase is always being flushed and evacuated of these compounds and substances leaving very little to settle in the crankcase. This helps maintain viscosity as well as greatly increases oil life. Here is an example of a tech testing just this with a twin turbo GDI engine that is modified and driven hard. Pay special attention to the Lab Techs comments:

Independent lab.
Other benefits from an enhanced system? Less oil ingestion equals less KR pulling timing so power and fuel economy improve. Not allowing pressure to build also reduces the parasitic power loss of the pistons fighting crankcase pressure on each downstroke. It also reduces the incidence of "Ring Flutter" where with forced induction engines allowing pressure to build in the crankcase allows the rings to enter into a State of rapid vibration that increases blow-by and reduces power output. A vent or breather also introduces un metered air into the intake air charge so fuel trims go nuts trying to compensate. If we look back through history up until the mid 1960's, all engines vented through a "draft tube" and that released pressure, but did a very poor
job of evacuating so engines wore rapidly. It was not until after the PCV system was mandated that engineers saw the same engines, with the same oils and oil change intervals were now lasting 2-3 times as long as prior. So after study they discovered what they could not see was responsible for much of the wear. Then we look at the racing industry. No form of Professional racing uses breathers unless the specific class forbids a crankcase evacuation system for all the reasons listed above and more. So we see far too many great tuner shops who do excellent builds completely ignore all of this. Why? It has been decades since any of this has been taught in Automotive Tech Schools and dealer training. So with no where to actually learn, most just make assumptions and as the damage done is gradual, few associate failures from deleting this system. My first post, but as a GDI and Crankcase evacuation Automotive Engineer, I figured this would be beneficial for those wanting to learn. Ask questions. I will answer and provide more data and documentation if needed. I'll go over other issues, the causes and solutions later on. Cheers!

 

What makes your can so special/efficient/effective?

 

Interesting that you got mostly oil. Some guys get mostly water. My other turbo GDI motor gets mostly oil as well in the catch can. Perhaps its the style of can.

This VW got mostly water which as he says could freeze and clog the can, as happened to a buddy of mind and made a huge mess as he lost most of his engine oil.

 

Several things. First we have to look at flow dynamics and the speed or velocity of the vapors. Anything smaller than 1 qt (many cans are 4-6 oz capacity) or the Bernoulli Principal comes into play and will flow will create lift that pulls and brings out a good deal of any liquid contained with the flow. Many look at how nice a small can fits, but that greatly hurts effectiveness. The more the small cans fill, the less effective they become. But that is so easy to test for. Simply place one of this design in series AFTER the can you fell works well, and starting with both clean and oil free, drive 1000 miles and drain each and document what they caught and contained. You will see this design will trap 2-5 times as much AFTER those vapors passed through the ineffective design. Then clean both and reverse the order so this design is first and the can you feel is good is second (to be equal and fair in every way), and drive the same 1000 miles and drain and document. You will find only drops get past this patented design.

Then we have to look further as to why this is. Well we know that internal volume is critical, so what's next.

If you open ANY can and inspect then inside, most have NO effective baffling and just 2 fittings so most of the vapors simply do a U turn and exit with no separation operation taking place. As with any container, a beer can or mayonnaise jar, some vapors will reach further in and condensation will separate some oil/gunk and that's how most judge. They see some caught and it has a placebo effect, but in no way can you judge what the total amount was unless doing the test. The goal is to stop as much as possible. I included links to others that have done these tests, and there are several if you search. This design (Patent US 10, 890,089 Google has a Patent search function. I hold 2 patents on this) to show how most designs actually stack up. This one has nearly a qt capacity and has a series of 4 separate chambers and 3 separate processes to separate and contain what's suspended.

Then, and this is a big one, we look at most designs and the inlet (if even have designated inlet and outlets) is very close to the outlet. This allows the vapors again, to simply do a U turn and exit without being exposed to any separation process. This design the incoming vapors travel app 9" and never co mingle with the scrubbed vapors. The incoming saturated vapors NEVER mix with the clean vapors exiting the unit. EVERY other design on the market the vapors comingle in a common chamber so it makes clean effective separation impossible. (All of these are elementary if you apply science to this).

In addition, follow this diagram as the vapors flow through the unit:

As you can see when following the diagram, the oil and other contaminant laden vapors are drawn into the center fitting on the device. They travel down the inlet tube into the main coalescing chamber where the tube is perforated so the vapors disperse evenly throughout the coalescing media where most of the contaminates are separated, and they are drawn out the bottom into the main condensing and containment chamber. By this time the vapors are app. 85-90% cleaned, but we want as much out as possible, so the vapors then are drawn upward past the lower disc baffle that has an 1/8" uniform gap between it and the outer wall. This cools the vapors as they enter the secondary condensing chamber where they slow again and residual suspended liquids can separate and fall back down. Then the vapors pass the upper disc baffle again cooling before entering the separate outlet chamber where they can slow again before exiting. There are two exits from the outlet chamber and as this uses two separate evacuation vacuum sources, the intake manifold vacuum when present, at idle and deceleration, and when boost is present a specially designed checkvalve will detect when IM vacuum drops and the secondary checkvalve will open and use the now strong enough vacuum generated by the special Venturi Vacuum Generating valve (included with the system) takes over so at all times the crankcase has suction pulled on it and it has no periods when pressure can build to begin with. This is one of the biggest flaws in the Mini PCV system. Only IM vacuum is used, so unless your at idle or decelerating, pressure builds and then it seeks the path of least resistance and back flows out the fresh air inlet located on the driverside of the valve cover where most are plumbing in the "catchcans". That is prevented with full time suction on the crankcase so it maintains the "fresh filtered MAF metered air in the driverside, and the foul/dirty contaminant laden vapors are evacuated (sucked out) the passenger side. And that eliminates all the issues related to crankcase pressure. Pressure is never good. But you can study the oil analysis examples showing how well this system (far more than a "catchcan" but a real air/oil separating crankcase evacuation system that emulates the belt driven vacuum pump systems we use on all of our race builds (we race Professionally and have decades of Divisional, National, and World Championships in multiple classes (8 of them) in NHRA & IHRA).
Now lets look at what this system catches when examined in the lab. This shows what is trapped on average. It is spun in a centrifuge to separate and then analyzed:

This is 70% water and acids (TBN properties combat acids), 23% raw fuel (one of the main causes of bearing failures) that greatly thins viscosity and reduces the oils ability to protect. 5% is considered "condemned" and unable to protect any longer. Average GDI engine reaches this in 3-4k miles. And only 7% is actually oil, and this is saturated with abrasive particulate matter....and some "catchcans" return this all to the crankcase causing wear and damage as you can imagine.

Now here is an eample of one of the better small can designs that can trap as much as 20% of the total passing through, this is Moroso/Billet/etc.:

Look close as there are maybe 40-50 brands that use this same design. There is no designated inlet or outlet. The vapors enter one, ad travel through the media in that chamber and then do a quick U turn and into the opposite chamber where droplets fall from the first chamber are pulled into the second one your using as the outlet. This media saturates as well and when you shut the engine off and no more flow is present, gravity will allow the oil and gunk to drip down and accumulate in the bottom. That is how a user see's it traps some. But when running, as the internal volume is so small, the speed of flow through will simply pull nearly all out with it. Try this at home. Take a wet washcloth and place it to your mouth and suck on it. What happens? You suck the water out. Now the suction on the catchcan is far stronger so you can imagine how they trap almost nothing while the engine is running. You can see this in Moroso's youtube video. They have a clear bottom on one with the car running, and you can see droplets enter, and then be pulled right up the side and out the opposite chamber.

Much more but this is already to long. But ask questions. As specific as possible. Lot's more to share from one of the Worlds most respected synthetic lubrication labs that conducted 2 years of testing on a fleet of new GDI powered vehicles.

Cheers!

 

Tuner Boost... Are you selling a product that helps with the issues in your presented information?




.

 

A good friend has a 2011 N14 JCW....It got a new engine last year under extended warranty that he purchased.
Edit: His wife bought the car new... and only put 41k on it before it grenaded.

The new, factory BMW/Mini complete Replacement engine is running well... he drives LOTS with the car up and down HWY 5 in Cali between Chico and Los Angeles... about 2000 miles per week and includes plenty of stop/go 'in city' and traffic use as well.... He averages 3 weeks between oil changes and uses a top quality, full synthetic with NOACK numbers in the 6's. His previous oil was always MINI branded oil.

The car now has about 82k miles on it.... popped the valve cover to fix a minor gasket leak... looked new... Pulled the intake to do the blasting... VERY minimal IVD's....and only did the blast because they were already setup and ready when opened up... showed no reason to be done actually.

Engine was/is stock with NO catch can, and other than tires/wheels, the entire car is bone stock !!.

By this time next year... the car will have over 240k miles on it... and about 160K miles on the engine.... Crossing fingers for him.

He absolutely loves his MINI commuter/delivery car !!

He was able to have the shop install, for an extra charge, a Cryo treated timing set on the new motor before going in.... and used a top quality break in oil for the initial run...
This thing gets maintained better than any fleet car I've seen.... Brake and tires, plugs, belt tensioner/belt and oil in the last year... plus a new radiator and Cat this year... otherwise... solid car.

He was tempted to go with a catch can with the new motor..but the installer talked him out of it.

With his current results, he's pretty darn pleased.


I'd like to see this other "system" that is being mentioned??






.

 

I have the system installed on my 2012 Mini Cooper R58 JCW Coupe 61,000 miles. Tracy Lewis installed it for me and did a walnut blast. You can see his videos on YouTube installed on a N14 and N18 Mini. You can Google Tracy Lewis RX performance and see the system on his website. Tracy is a very nice man and you can call him if you have any questions. The system actually reduces tail pipe emissions but for some reason it is not legal in California. I believe that all catch cans are illegal in California. Strange state. You would think if it actually help reduce emissions that would be a good thing.

 

I had the system installed three days ago by Tracy Lewis. You can Google his website Tracy Lewis RX performance and see the system. You can also view his videos on YouTube Tracy Lewis RX performance. He has two videos one for the N14 and another for the N18 engine. Tracy is a very nice man if you have any questions call him M-F. He will be more than happy to answer all your questions.

 

I’m referring to ‘Tuner Boost’ … I may have missed it, are you Tracy Lewis ?



.

 

[QUOTE=mountainhorse;4601810

Engine was/is stock with NO catch can, and other than tires/wheels, the entire car is bone stock !!.

He was tempted to go with a catch can with the new motor..but the installer talked him out of it.

.[/QUOTE]

Why did the installer talk him out of installing a catch can on the new engine?

 

No I am a recent very happy customer of Tracy Lewis RX performance. I had it installed on my 2012 Mini cooper r58 jcw n14 engine

 

This is an installation of a Tracy Lewis Catch Can on my N14 JCW. Note the dirty vapors are drawn from the left side PVC port and the right side is blocked. Vacuum is obtained from the intake manifold when engine is running at low RPM. When in boost, vacuum is created by the Turbo. Note, fresh clean air is allowed to enter engine thru modified oil fill cap, eliminating any vapor lock.

 

This is the installation of the Tracy Lewis RX performance system on my 2012 Mini cooper R58 JCW with an N14 engine.



You can see how the dirty side (boost passenger side) goes to the large triple Baffled catch can. The can it self is about a quart most others are 4 to 6 ounces. It goes to the center fitting. It goes down a center tube to the bottom of the catch can. The triple baffles which are about 1/8" from the interior walls of the can slows the velocity and cools the vapors three times. Each time it forces the contaminants to fall to the bottom of the can allowing clean air to leave the can. The same happens for the non boost side pvc. There are two one way check valves on the boost line and the driver's side non boost side. I opted for a high performance check valve on the boost (passenger side pvc) line and a standard one way check valve on the non boost (driver's side pvc). These open and close depending on if you are under boost or not. With this system I have zero turbo lag. I went from about 32mpg to 40mpg. It has drastically changed the idle. It was very noisy and not smooth running. Now very quiet and no motor vibration sounds and runs better than the day I bought it.

 

Looks expensive.

 

I guess it is all relative. You have to understand that if you do not properly evacuate the contaminants which is like sand. Without proper evacuation of the contaminants is just like you adding sand when you change your oil. It scores your pistons and cylinder walls. It breaks your piston rings. It damages every part of your engine that is lubricated by oil. Far cheaper than a total engine rebuild or replacement. I paid $200 for the M7 catch can I had on my car. It only captured about 15% so 85% went into the can and back through my turbo and engine. This new system has been scientifically tested by independent labs. None of the other catch cans really do anything other than look cool. You can find videos on YouTube Tracy Lewis RX performance. You can Google Tracy Lewis RX performance and see the price. Very reasonable. You can order it for DIY or if you are near Palmetto FL have him install it.

Independent lab.
Best wishes
Note that the oil was run hard for 6,000 miles. The inspector stated that the vehicle could easily be run for another 2,000 miles.

 

Looks like some interesting design choices, and some questionable installation choices as well… Seems that some of the design/installation choices lead to unnecessary complexity. If it works for you, great. I’ll hold on to my money a little bit longer.

 

I understand. I am just a current customer trying pass on some information. I have noticeable gains since installation.

All the best

 

I would be willing to bet your “gains” were from cleaning up the intake, not from the catch can. Not that his system is worthless, but no catch can is going to add power.

 

Walnut blasting is a big help but clean cold air is required for more boost. Less contaminants that is just like sand in your oil sure helps the engines performance less friction equals higher mpgs and performance. My engine pulls in a lot more clean cold air by cleaning out contaminants through the Catch can system the. I also installed the AEM cold air intake. The AEM system uses the hood scoop which I have a larger than stock. The air travels through a large sealed tunnel attached to the hood. The tunnel seals to the air box. It also draws cooler air through the stock tube from the drivers side bumper which attaches to intake box. All other so call cold air intakes sit in the engine bay and only draw in engine bay temperature air. They are useless. They just look cool. I believe in the science of the catch can system and the AEM system. It is just logical. I am in no way trying to convince you. You have already made up your mind.

All the best to you.

 

I also have the AEM intake, larger intercooler, silicone boost tubes, and a stage 2 tune. I have an N18 engine, no catch can, 130k miles on the engine, and she runs smooth and powerful. Even my tuner said my engine seems abnormally strong. I hardly go easy on the car, regular oil changes at 5000 miles, and recently had a Blackstone analysis performed. My engine is as healthy as they come, so in my mind, my skepticism seems warranted to me. I'm not saying catch cans are worthless, but I don't think they are the panacea that everyone makes them out to be.