I was over at the Subaru dealer today picking up some parts for my wife's Outback and saw the BRZ. Looks nice on the outside, and I'm sure with RWD it is a lot of fun to drive. I didn't care at all for the interior, it was ugly and had cheap materials, and there's less rear seat leg room than in the R56. I popped the hood and immediately was put off by the lack of gas struts to support the hood, you have to use the metal stick to prop it open, and the hood itself felt flimsy. Then I checked out the window sticker - the dealer is adding $5,000 markup on a $27,000 MSRP car. 30% markup? Are there really people who will pay that?

I jumped in the Mini and on the way out of the parking lot I passed a couple of young guys who were talking with a sales guy next to a BRZ. I rolled down the window, and told them to buy a Mini instead, then left a bit of pop and burble behind on my way out.

 

More like 18.5%, but yes. Impatient people will spend that. Others don't have to.

 

I had a WRX for 8 weeks this year. The spartan interior(to put it nicely) is god awful bare necessities. I actually like the exterior, especially with rally mudflaps but yikes. Why can't they upgrade the interior? The Mini's interior isn't AMAZING but next to the WRX, it's downright luxurious.

 

Subaru & Toyota have better record of reliability & support. MINI just doesn't bow to recall clamor for faulty parts, hardly owns up.
Personally, I'm sorry, I can't see myself getting an R56, not w/ all the known issues. Between getting a MINI or a Subie now, a 1st gen GP would tip me over, otherwise, I vote BRZ.

 

BRZ isn't a Subaru....last true Subaru I drove was AWD.

My buddy has a BRZ and got it not too long after I got my Coupé. He was actually more impressed with the power delivery of the Mini...torque, and the fact that you don't have to rev the heck out of it to get that torque.

I've been in a BRZ...the car would look better if the inside was stripped, the interior is just.....I have nothing nice to say about it. I really wanted to like the BRZ but so far it hasn't shown me anything to go 'WOW' for.

 

The MINI has a great deal more character and is much more versatile. Unless you want to do a lot of drifting I would get a MINI. So many ways to customize the MINI also.
IMHO

 

Haven't driven the FR-S, but since it doesn't come with run flats, the ride may be quite a bit smoother than the MCS

 

I can see how the two can be cross-shopped. But I consider the MINI , even with its whimsical (semi traditional) dash layout, to be the more mature choice. The BRZ/FRS upon closer inspection look and feel cheap - with a real boy-racer style. I expected a lot more than what I saw when I took a close look at these vehicles at the car show. I should also say that the FRS/BRZ wasn't on my radar for purchase in comparison to my MINI, but I wanted see what all the fuss was about. It may drive well...but overall I was not impressed. It being RWD is a plus for the segment. Personally, I would rather have a lightly optioned 2.0T Hyundai Genesis Coupe than the FRS/BRZ which also also happens to be RWD.

JMHO

 

I recently got a MINI and I cross shopped an FR-S with it. I would have definitely gotten the FR-S if the price had been the same. I didn't find the interior of the Scion to be terribly bad, the MINI seems cheap to me too and I hate the GIANT R56 speedo. Both are fun to drive, but I prefer RWD.

 

Go to the subi site and "build your own" and see what choices they offer. I am sure these are great cars and they are just getting off the ground... That durn performance polished stainless steel license plate frame sure does catch my eye tho'

 

LOL. Love that stainless steel...

The "twins" have been placed in STX within the SCCA Autocross rules for 2013 although the STAC can recommend a change if warranted. It appears that expectations for the car in that state of tune are pretty high in that it might be making some RX-8 and BMW drivers take notice.

I look forward to seeing how competitive these cars actually are once the season is under way - I do expect a few serious builds to turn up. I believe Terry Fair has one in progress, although that thread hasn't been updated for a while. Vorschlag certainly has no shortage of go fast parts already available.

All that of course is looking at the picture with a fairly narrow view - just speed through cones!

Cheers,

Charlie

 

It's quite simple really.

What matters most to you? 'Mini' FWD agility or ol' school RWD fun?

The BRZ has immense potential. If you're looking at prospects of tuning w/ turbos and stuff, the BRZ is a great option. The R56 Cooper S' tuning potential is restricted. What I'm trying to say is, even though you can churn out 300 horses from the Mini, how much of it can be put down onto the road? The Mini is good for 200-250 horses at the most. Beyond that, its potential is restricted to straight-line performance, e-diff aside. And the Mini is not meant to be a straight-line hero. It's a corner carver.

The BRZ can deal with some crazy power but you've got to upgrade other components like the transmission as well.

The kind of power the BRZ makes in stock guise doesn't warrant for RWD. And the Mini makes just under 200 and the chassis is so sorted that you don't need RWD and you wouldn't realize it's a FWD when you're driving it spiritedly on a normal road.

If you want to take up a nice tuning project, the BRZ is a nice place to start. If you're satisfied with the performance the Cooper S has to offer and you appreciate nice little details, then the Mini is your best bet.

 

The STX build thread just got updated - some attention getting lateral G numbers get mentioned... Holy cats! Over 1.3 G sustained running 255 mm RS3 at the track.

 

Yeah, I like these cars

 

This will explain why there is a mark up on the BRZ

http://autos.yahoo.com/news/10-harde...011339418.html

 

I agree with the Mustang and Genesis in that article! But I just have a lot of love for the Genesis!

 

I've been cross shopping the Mini Clubman JCW with the BRZ and Impreza STI hatch and I recently took a long test drive of a used BRZ Premium that was traded in at a local dealer.

Sitting in the BRZ feels like a very snug cockpit. The dash panel and stereo are within easy reach and the roof feels very low and close to your head. It leads to a very intimate driving experience. It feels like just you and the road.

In terms of driving, the steering feel is excellent. You turn the wheel and the car does exactly where you want it to go. It is almost telepathic. The suspension rides well and absorbs bumps without being harsh. The car is very smooth and allows you string together turns in the twisties very nicely.

The real let down for me was the power. When you gun it there is a lot of noise but no feeling that you are getting anywhere. The performance times are similar to a Cooper S and my current e46 330ci vert, so I was quite surprised. Maybe it is faster than it feels but it lacks any torquey punch. The upside is the power is very linear and is in line with the overall theme of the car - smoothness and balance.

Overall it is an excellent car and great in the twisties. But I can see it getting annoying in daily driving as minivans rip you off the line. I enjoyed the Clubman JCW more for its quicker reflexes and torque. I also like the higher roofline and boxy proportion which is less claustrophobic for me.

If you are cross shopping I would highly recommend taking a test drive of the BRZ and seeing how it feels to you individually.

 

+1 with that... Fellow 05 R53 owner that will never be sold but, I sure like the BRZ/FR-S. I would own one in a minute but, not in exchange of my R53. It has the same qualities that drew people to the 1st Gen Mini's. A different package but, same sprit. A small, fun to drive, enthusiast car, with a bit of retro styling, at a price most could afford. Mini hasn’t been able to recreate that same sprit since the R53 IMO. I thought BMW/Mini was coming back to their senses with the Rocketman but, it looks like they are focusing their efforts on the Paceman. What a mistake and ugly car. I’ll be driving my refreshed R53 for a while, till it’s a classic (which won’t be much longer from what it looks like).

 

-

 

They reflect the production and distribution figures, and they are less than demand.

Cheers,

Charlie

 

There's a 15+ car wait list at my local dealership.

If I'm in a position for a new car when the STi version comes out, it'll be a consideration. Rumor has it about 250HP. I haven't driven the current 200HP version yet, but compared to the 115 I have now, I imagine it will feel quick as is... I'm used to losing stoplight races. However, I'm not comfortable with getting a first run model of any car.

 

Interesting to note that in the recent issue of Car and Driver (Feb, Lightning Lap No. 7) the BRZ and JCW Coupe (2012) were a dead match around VIR - 3:18.6 vs 3:18.4 - But the 2009 JCW Hatch was faster - 3:17.1. I would think this would be a more fair comparison given the closer power to weight numbers. The last time they tested the "S" was a 2007 model. That was 3:22.9 around VIR and almost 30 hp less than the BRZ

About the Coupe they said "Get used to the quick reactions, though, and the Mini starts to inspire confidence on the track. The stiff ride, beyond unpleasant in street driving, lends itself to flat cornering. And the brakes hold up well to abuse."

About the BRZ they said "It's the kind of car that gently instructs you, that tells you when things are right and gets slowly loose where you have it wrong." But they also say it needs brakes - "We could barely crack off a single fliying lap before the middle pedal had all the firmness of a goose-down pillow."

So it will be interesting comparison when these two cars compete against each other. I am surprised, though, that the BRZ is in STX with MINI S. Doesn't seem to be a fair fight with ~20 Hp more with no mods.

 

The Mini is not a contender in STX, so that comparison would not have been a factor. Historically the cars at the sharp end of that class include the WRX, the RX-8, and an assortment of BMWs from the 325 to the 330.

 

Ya, I noticed that the S is not a contender in STX, but that is where I am because of changes I have made for the track...Good thing I only do this for fun

 

wow. thought the scion was pricey, but a new mini R56 is +$10k!

but, the mini wins in interior styling, hands down.
if the FRS comes out in a turbo (heard the BRZ would have a "stroked" version) then id get one!