True that you hear more complaints than praises, but thats with every car. But then again, there are some of us who will participate in the forum for whatever car we have. I've been on the Miata forums, 370Z forums, Jeep forums, Ducati forums, etc.

I've never owned a motor vehicle with as many issues as the Mini, and I can't believe the fanboyism on this site. I have a totally different opinion aobut the car now from when i was perusing the forums pre-purchase. Everyone is so apologetic about the issues and dismiss them so easily, you'd think they were the best car in the world.

 

Wait...there was a recent engine upgrade to the non s? What kind of upgrade? Did the HP numbers change?

 

Valvetronic, different timing to the valves. Upped the HP a bit.

 

I chose an S because, like another poster, our other car is a 335i and it is a blast to drive. While I knew that the Mini wouldnt be as fast as the Bmw, I actually enjoy driving it more! It has also been the most trouble free car that I have ever owned.

 

Putting in my $0.02:

The Sport mode button does make a huge difference. BUT, I actually don't use it anymore. I even turn off DSC. For driving to work, grocery, mall, basically any city driving, you really can't make use of it. The car will feel different compared to non-Sport mode, but it doesn't buy me anything at the end of the day. It may make you feel better that you have the Sport button. So if you're hung up about the Sport mode, I would advise you to move on. When I test drove the S model, the sales guy turned it on just to show me how good it feels. I was impressed for 2 seconds....

I read about the issues that the S models had as well before I purchased mine. My opinion is that all cars has issues, but at the end of the day, I'll take my chances. I figure, Mini makes thousands of these cars...and I don't think my luck is that bad of getting a bad one. But then again, I was crossing my fingers.

 

"Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?" Is still as true for MINI as it has been for generations of cars and hot rods and power boats, race horses,... Test 'em both as get what you need and want to pay for. The costs of performance is in cash for hardware, operating costs and maintenance/repair costs.

I could not be more pleased with the performance of my justacooper. But that is because it suits my age, my limitations, my driving style, my sensibilities,...

You can read the performance-oriented posts on this blog and get the impression that there may be no endpoint in the ultimate quest for speed. If that's your road and you've got the resources - go for it!

The S model, for me, is just a bunch of moving parts and plumbing that I don't need.

 

I used to own a 2008 conv JustaCooper 5 speed. I loved the FUN and the handling but always wanted more power to pull out of a corner or to pass traffic. My wife was perfectly happy with it though. But... now I have an S model and LOVE the power difference.

Satisfaction probably depends on your needs and what kind of driver you are.

 

Justa owner here. My boyfriend has an S, and I honestly prefer my car. It's not because of it being 'mine' either, I just feel more comfortable in it. With the S, I always feel like I'm expected to drive harder and faster. To push it to its limits. The Cooper I can be relaxed in - I love the gas mileage. I drive mine pretty easy, so (as long as I'm not at the Dragon... ) I'm getting up to 50mpg. It's still got the ability to keep up with the S in corners, and that's all I'm concerned about.

I honestly don't even notice much of a difference with the 'sport mode' on. When I was driving an automatic loaner I did, but not with my car. I think it tightens the steering? I have no idea. Haha. :P

My boyfriend had a Cooper before his S - an 05, also stick. He chose the Cooper instead of the S because he had quite the scare in an S when he was test driving it before ordering. He lost control of it and almost crashed. Am I trying to scare you into buying a Cooper? No. Haha. He said that he got the Cooper in hopes he wouldn't do that again, had it for 18 months then decided he wanted to trade it for an S. He says he really misses his Cooper now, but enjoys his S more. He loves the additional power and the supercharger. He loves modding it. It suits him very well. His Cooper wasn't as fitting for him.

We also have another Justa in our driveway. An 05 stick - our room mate's. She loves hers, too!

My car's had a few repairs, only one of which I'd consider a 'problem' (O2 sensor went out after ~6 months). My boyfriend's had its fair share of repairs. My room mate's had I think two repairs since she's had hers.

So really I'm just saying, get what you think is more fitting for you. Get what you think you won't regret - it could easily go either way.

Good luck and have fun!! :D

 

No, given the S received power upgrades as well.

 

This is true. If you're getting a stick, the sport mode would be useless. But in the auto, you definitely want it.

It stiffens up the steering a little bit, the the big difference is in the throttle response and shifting. With the sport mode engaged, the auto will sit about 1000rpm higher, and it lets you rev higher before it shifts. Coupled with the paddleshifters, I think it would be a mistake to get an S with automatic transmission that didn't have a sport button.

 

The R56 Cooper has always had VANOS and Valvetronic. The S only had VANOS on one side of the head up until '11. If anything, the gap has widened between the S and non-S with the changes for '11.

 

I wouldn't say useless... Even in the manual, Sport mode makes the steering heavier and noticeably changes throttle response.

 

Sport mode is a joke. All it does is give you a heavier steering wheel, a more sensitive accelerator pedal, in automatics it keeps the gearing in lower gears and on newer models it makes the exhaust sound more like a track car.

It doesn't change anything that actually makes the car faster. It would make sense if sport mode changed the suspension dampening, valve timing or boost level... But it doesn't. And because of this, my sport button gathers dust.

 

I think you're probably right on this point. It certainly never hurts to have that extra power, even if you're not making regular use of it. I wonder how many S owners out there regret not springing for the JCW.

 

You're right, it doesn't actually make the car faster... But since the OP spends most of his time doing things that aren't timed, if the car even just seems faster or feels sportier with sport mode on its worth considering when you're talking about how the MC feels compared to the MCS.

 

Having owned over 12 MINI's, from a GP (319) to a base MC with no options. I can say that I loved them all equally for what they were. 9 were S models and 3 were Justas. I never regretted not having an S while driving a Justa, or vice-versa.

It's not like buying an 883 and wishing you had real Harley, as some would have you believe. At least not to me.

 

I was thinking the same thing earlier this year MCS vs. JCW. I knew I wanted an S, but apparently I 'needed' a JCW

I figured I would regret not having the JCW and I didn't really want to do any major modding to an S on my own. I ended up getting a better deal than I expected and in other ways finances have improved such that a JCW is easily affordable now. I would be kicking myself if I had ordered an S.




With respect to the Sport Button... No it does not make the car faster and the stiffer steering is of questionable use. But it changes the throttle response which IMO is terrible on justa Cooper coupled with an automatic. Just try driving in a city environment with small blocks and stop signs at every intersection. Stop, gas... wait... ok throttle working... auto box is doing something.... ok we are moving... repeat. Drives me nuts.

 

I feel like the gap between the MCS and the JCW is much smaller than the gap between a MC and an MCS.

I know personally the way my car sits I can out handle, out stop, and out accelerate a stock JCW or even a lightly modded one.

Sure i dont have the areo kit - which i am fan of, but not for the price. I would have a hard time justifying the JCW though for me.. if you are someone who is very into modding your own car it doesnt take much to make an MCS faster than a JCW.

The key differences in power are a slightly bigger turbo, stronger engine internals, different map sensors, etc.. other than that the visual and interior differences do nothing for me in terms of wowing me over my MCS.

Now I guess I could just be a bitter MCS owner who is just upset cause he didnt get a JCW.. but all in all I am really not. I think they are much closer to each other than people think.

Now the MC.. didnt work for me cause I wanted something turbo. I love all the sounds that are associated with a turbo car.. the spool, the diverter valve, exhaust, etc.

Alot of people keep claiming the MCs keep up with MCS's in corners.. and I would have to disagree greatly on this, again this depends on the driver. And an MC may enter a turn at the same speed as an MCS.. but i highly doubt it will exit a turn at the same speed as an MCS.

I need to get down to the track and see what the mini runs now. I am shooting for a super low 13 since I hit a 14.1 stock. I dont think an MC can hit a 14 in a 1/4 even modded.

 

I wouldn't trade in my R50 for an S, but I'd trade it in for a GP if the opportunity came along, and maybe a clean JCW.

I drove an '08 S manual and I felt the Sport button was totally necessary for the throttle response. I think it's awful in all MINIs without either the magic button or a SprintBooster. However, I didn't like the artificially heavy steering.

 

I'm quite happy with my non-S. It makes regular trips from Wyoming to Southern Nevada. So most of my miles (probably 75 pct) are at fairly constant throttle highway (60-65) and interstate (70-80) speeds. It does "justa" fine! Yes, there are a few hills on the route where I need to downshift a gear - but that's fine. And yes, there are some two lane sections where you need to plan ahead if you are thinking of passing someone. But that's fine too. It is a fun car and I like it.

Here are some statistics that might be of interest:

Hand calculated
Total miles: 47000
Avg mpg: 36.46

OBC
Total miles: 48720
Avg mpg: 37.9
Avg mph: 50.8

My miles and OBC miles are different. That's what happens when you let someone else drive your car and they don't write down their fillups.

Probably also need to subtract about 3 pct from above numbers since speedometer reads a bit high vs what gps says.

I'm a conservative driver and seldom use the Sport Button.

Speed makes a significant difference. If I drive at 60 I can easily break 40mpg. If I drive at 75-80 it's about to 35mpg. And if I'm fighting a strong headwind it might cost another couple mpg.

 

Perspective is everything. It's about where you've been, and where you're going. I had a Mini in Scotland in the early '80s -- Austin, if memory serves (and it often doesn't). Loved it. Always wanted one, never got one. Bought a leftover 2010 6M Cooper last January (at 67), checking off a bucket list item, got a good deal on it, and haven't looked back. Lotsa added toys. Dark silver -- like me. For having fun while getting around town or out on the interstates, it's great. The sport button, I'll admit, is fun, but I don't drive it hard very often. Don't have to. At my age, getting there five minutes sooner isn't that big a deal. Getting there is what it's about. My choice was based on price, relative fuel economy (average a little over 35 mpg), and the "objective" (read: Consumers Union, etc.) cost to maintain the car -- and the wow factor. It's enough fun for me, and my cardiologist prefers some limits on the wow, anyway.

The point that more Cooper drivers look back over their shoulder with some reserve than "S" drivers is probably totally valid, and shouldn't be a surprise. They're different cars: they just look a lot alike. And that's the key. If you want fun while you drive around, the Cooper is terrific; if you drive around to have fun, maybe the "S".

This could well be my last car. (I'm not plannng to log off anytime soon, but I tend to keep cars forever!) Another one? Sure, but maybe a Cooper with a sea anchor attached if that decision is eight or ten years out. AAA sticker on the bumper -- fedora on the parcel shelf.

Jack

 

Obviously, there are many variables, the greatest of which is the driver, but yes, the Cooper should handle very similarly to the Cooper S assuming both have the stock suspension and same wheel/tire selection. In fact, I would argue a Lightly-optioned Cooper like mine might actually theoretically handle *better* than a stock Cooper S or JCW since it is lighter. If they've all got the same-ish factory suspension (adjusted for weight), then why *wouldn't* the lighter Cooper be equal or superior to its heavier brethren? Just sticking an 'S' or a JCW surfboard on a car with the same suspension won't magically make it faster.


That, of course, depends on how modded the MC is. Someone could build an 11-second Cooper if they really wanted to. That said, if someone is looking for straight-line speed, there are much better values than the MINI. If I was going to drag race, it would be one of my Mistangs or even maybe my F-150 before the MINI.

That's one reason I went with the Cooper. What makes a MINI a MINI is uniqueness, character, and driving dynamics, not straight line speed... in my opinion, of course.

 

I really like my Justa. Take a look, (Jason was on Hoosier race slicks)



[FONT=Cambria][SIZE=3]1. Jason S. Green Cooper S 1:14:92[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Cambria][SIZE=3]2. Colin Red (Justa) Cooper 1:19:08[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Cambria][SIZE=3]3. Morgan Green Convertible/Black S 1:19:22[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Cambria][SIZE=3]4. Leon Blue Cooper S 1:19:41[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Cambria][SIZE=3]5. Melissa Blue Cooper S 1:19:72[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Cambria][SIZE=3]6. Keith Yellow Cooper S 1:19:94[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Cambria][SIZE=3]7. Wayne Black Cooper S 1:20:15[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Cambria][SIZE=3]8. Jared Black Cooper S 1:21:22[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Cambria][SIZE=3]9. Perry Green Convertible S 1:23:91[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Cambria][SIZE=3]10. Mike Orange Mini Takes the States 1:24:09[/SIZE][/FONT]

 

Reading all the comments reminds me of when I had a VW Golf. VWs had the 1.8 turbo engine and the 2.0 normally aspirated engine, which was referred to as the 2. Slow. There were always comments on which was better and why. There is no doubt the turbo makes it go faster. Its all a preference, both cars get you from A to B but turbos are like water pumps, brakes , in that they do wear out, Normally before the engine. Not to mention premium fuel, but again its the buyers preference. Both are fun to drive, that is once you get rid of the run flats.

 

I wondered how long until that list showed up. I think that shows the Justa is quite good in the corners. I saw Colin's 1:19.08 run and it was super impressive. Watching Colin run that time, and seeing how spry his Justa was in the corners made me very happy to be part of "Team Justa".