"they wouldn't design something to cause your brakes to overheat."

Although not applicable to DSC, see reviews of the eDLC installed on the JCW and optional with DTC. EDLC applies the brakes to either front wheel if they spin during acceleration. According to various owners and Road & Track, it rapidly overheats the brakes under highly spirited driving.

I believe that DSC is a good thing for those who can't or don't want to learn to control an automobile with the throttle and steering, but I'll always prefer to ride with someone who wants to turn it off and drive cautiously in snow to learn the handling of the car. That's exactly where I learned 48 years ago, in an empty parking lot covered with light snow.

 

It's not a question of people "who can't or don't want to learn to control", DSC applies corrections that are not physically possible for a driver — any driver — to do. Not just because the system's reaction times are far superior, but also because you as a driver do not have 4 separate brake pedals at your feet.

Contrary to your preference, and speaking as someone who learned to drive in Montana winters, I would much rather be in a car being driven by someone who was wise enough to leave extremely important safety equipment enabled when operating a vehicle on potentially slick surfaces than someone who apparently thinks such features should be shunned since they weren't around nearly 5 decades ago and it was good enough back then not to have them.

 

Does your Motoring advisor have a refund policy?

 

Thanks for taking it out of context. The user who posted this has a COOPER. Not an S. Not an S JCW. They are not driving spiritedly, they are driving in the snow and ice, with sub zero temperatures. I highly doubt DSC is going to cause the brakes to overheat in minus weather with snow and ice. They aren't going to be launching off at intersections when it's icy, they'll be going slowly.

Yesh.

 

Also, DSC kicks in (and only for milliseconds) based on vehicle yaw sensors to prevent a spinout -- something that happens much less frequently than general wheel spin. DSC-related brake wear/heating is not something to be concerned about in the heat of a desert, either.

 

JustinGTP, did you miss the first five words of mine that you quoted? "Although not applicable to DSC..."

Fishbert is correct about DSC being able to get one out of trouble faster than he/she can get themselves out, but DSC overdoes preventing a skilled driver from getting into trouble in the first place. If that wasn't so, the owner's manual wouldn't say to use DTC on snow covered roads. 009MINI was also correct in preferring DTC where some tire slippage can help get one going in snow or on ice where DSC can actually prevent it.

See complaints about 3rd gen Prius where the stability control can't be turned off. People who have never learned to manage the throttle can't go anywere because the Prius cuts the power. Those who are skilled snow drivers do just fine because they don't invoke the stability control. You have to learn funny things like you can't get no satisfaction or traction from a dead stop with the front wheels turned in deep snow.

And the only proof I need that DSC is overcautious in a base Cooper is the very dramatic difference I get in autocross times. You can't learn to drive with it on because the car refuses to do what you ask of it.

The original poster said he didn't like DSC in the snow. I doubt if I would either, but then I ordered DTC on mine. It's not likely to intefer with how I would drive in the snow, just like DSC leaves me alone on the street.

You know, the button is within easy reach. There's nothing wrong with using it when it's helpful and turning it off when it isn't. And that's exactly what the manual recommends.

And then there was that time the Austin Healey Sprite was sliding right toward a telephone poll and I spun it into the ditch to stop it short. DSC would have prevented me from doing that, and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be typing this. YMMV. Good luck to us all.

 

Did you miss the first four words of the thread title? DSC on or off? Your post isn't relevant to the thread! But thanks for your information? I really don't want to engage in sidestepping from the topic.

I use DSC in the snow and ice. I like my ABS and my winter tires and wheels. I'm a happy camper.

 

DSC only steps in when it detects trouble is about to happen, and it does so faster than any human driver could react. So, please, I'd really like to hear you explain exactly how DSC doesn't prevent skilled drivers from getting into trouble.

The manual suggests BRIEFLY activating DTC in certain exceptional situations because it is designed to help gain traction in those specific cases (i.e., driving on snow-covered inclines, rocking the vehicle free, driving with snow chains, etc.). The manual absolutely DOES NOT suggest turning off DSC whenever there's snow or ice on the ground. In fact, it specifically states that, after briefly disabling DSC [enabling DTC], that "to increase vehicle stability, activate DSC again as soon as possible."

What?! Autocross times? Are you serious?!
"Safety feature 'X' isn't good to use on the roadway because my autocross times are adversely affected." That's crazy!

Again, no it doesn't.
The manual specifically suggests that drivers "activate DSC again as soon as possible" after choosing to prioritize DTC "briefly" for a specific driving situation that DTC is designed to help with.

Yeah, DSC would likely have enabled you to maneuver safely past the telephone pole without ending up in the ditch… because that's exactly what it is designed to do.

Sorry, but again: "DSC is bad because it reduces my autocross times"; you are joking about that, right?!
Not to belabor the point… but… wow.

I doubt I'll change your 'autocross times define safety feature merit' attitude on DSC, but for the benefit of others reading this thread, I'll leave this from the Wikipedia page on ESP [DSC]:

 

DSC limits your ability to take evasive actions when another driver puts you at risk. Slower autocross times prove that DSC does NOT only intervene when trouble is about to happen. It can cut your power when you need it most in an emergency situation created by another driver.

By the way, my argument was that turning DSC off to learn the handling of your car can be a good thing. I never argued that anyone who was comfortable with it should turn it off as you seem hell bent on interpreting it. You shall have to carry on without me as I see you are immune to any viewpoint except your own.

 

"DTC is a type of DSC that is propulsion optimized for special road conditions such as uncleared snowy roads."

2010 Owner's manual

 

That is exactly the *opposite* of what DSC does. DSC enables you to control a vehicle in situations where a human driver would otherwise lose control of the vehicle. Please feel free to explain how DSC does anything other than give a driver better control of the vehicle in an emergency situation. I'm sure the NHTSA would love to hear it.

Saying DSC is not an important safety feature because it negatively affects your autocross times is like saying airbags are useless because they obstruct your view in a demolition derby.

Mine... and that of the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS), the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), the Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile (FIA), Car and Driver Magazine, Consumer Reports, the Canadian Association of Road Safety Professionals, Transport Canada, the European New Car Assessment Program (EuroNCAP), etc.

You'll have to forgive me if I feel a little strongly about countering the irresponsible and reckless safety advice of a lone "bah! if you know how to control your car, you don't need this!" curmudgeon who seems to think a dip in his autocross times means a technology is overbearing when it comes to road safety and saving lives.

Yes, the key here is 'propulsion optimized'; not 'control optimized' or 'stability optimized'. There are specific situations where DTC (a slightly limited flavor of DSC, by the way) is a better option -- trying to get moving in deep snow is certainly one of them.

Not to accuse you of cherry-picking, but what you seem keen on ignoring is that the manual also repeatedly makes it clear that situations where DTC is preferred over DSC are typically brief in duration and that following such uses, drivers should "activate DSC again as soon as possible" (also a direct quote from the manual... and also something I recall bringing to your attention before) to regain the vehicle stability safety benefits of the system.

 

Love these little nanny chats.

 

Me too

 

Given the subject matter, I appreciate the irony of your signature quote, EcoHeli.

 

I thiiink it's a conspeeericy, and I plaan to investigaaate! I was a Seeeal, a fighterrr, and a govrrrnerr, and I doon't like DSC systems and govrrrnment nanneees interfeeering with my freeedom!!