R56 FYI We Must Use Top Tier Gas
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6th Gear
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: Upsidedownsville, CA
Actually the guy is probably my age, and seemed very nice...Not a pimple in sight. LOL.
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,384
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From: LI, NY
I've always been under the impression that you should stick with the same brand of gas, as opposed to just swapping brands (even between top tier products.)
This is usually because each brand has different additives to the mix, so it's best to stay consistent with one high quality brand and just go with it. I use Chevron, mostly because the pump is closest to my house.
This is usually because each brand has different additives to the mix, so it's best to stay consistent with one high quality brand and just go with it. I use Chevron, mostly because the pump is closest to my house.
4th Gear
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 587
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From: Richmond, VA
"Gluhwein
My doctor doesn't scold me about what I eat nor does my dentist lecture me about sweets, but I have to worry that my pimple-faced MINI service advisor is gonna yell at me about what gas I use? What happened to my country?"
No, your doctor and dentist don't. But your insurance company is going to try to deny your claim (as do some dealers), because they stand to lose by honoring it. Not your doctor or dentist.
P.S. If you are overweight, diabetic, or have lots of cavities, I hope your doctor and dentist will "counsel" you.
My doctor doesn't scold me about what I eat nor does my dentist lecture me about sweets, but I have to worry that my pimple-faced MINI service advisor is gonna yell at me about what gas I use? What happened to my country?"
No, your doctor and dentist don't. But your insurance company is going to try to deny your claim (as do some dealers), because they stand to lose by honoring it. Not your doctor or dentist.
P.S. If you are overweight, diabetic, or have lots of cavities, I hope your doctor and dentist will "counsel" you.
from http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...=277733&page=1
I've been in the petroleum hauling business for over ten years now. We haul exclusively to one customer from various oil terminals in the Virginia/North Carolina area. I've been authorized to load at over a dozen terminals in a 300 mile radius in recent years. I occasionally still drive, but my normal job is dispatching ten tanker trucks to our area stations.
What I can tell you about "branded" gasoline is this: Sometimes it ain't what you think it is. And the additives which are put into the branded gasolines are added in such small amounts it may or may not have the advertised effects on your engine/fuel system.
Of course the states regulate the octane advertised on the pumps, but no agency (to my knowledge) ever checks for the additives which are purported to be present in the branded gasolines.
It then becomes possible for branded stations to sell gasoline which doesn't have the additives that the signs and commercials say that it has. This can occur when the additive injector system fails at the loading terminal, or when the terminal runs out of an additive.
Additives in gasoline are just like additives in oil; they are "added" to the base product. All gas begins as pretty much the same stuff. Regular unlead and premium for all oil terminals in a given area comes up the same pipeline. We pull off of Colonial Pipeline in this area, and a small bit off a branch pipeline called Plantation Pipeline. When Citgo, Chevron, Conoco, Amoco, Texaco, Shell, and the rest fill their huge terminal storage tanks the gas comes off the same pipeline at pretty much the same time. There is one exception: Amoco Ultimate Premium is refined an extra step, and it comes up the pipeline all by itself. Other company's 93 octane premium fuels (I don't know anything about Sunoco fuels as they aren't distributed in my area) are the same before the additives are injected into the gasoline when it is being loaded onto the transport tanker trucks.
There are a couple of different octanes out there for what can be called "premium" gasoline. Read the pump. If it's 92, that ain't bad. 93 is better. If it's 91 I'd definitely pass. The lower octane premiums are simply cut a bit with regular unleaded. That's also where "midgrade" or "plus" gasoline comes from; it's mixed as it goes on the tanker truck--35 percent premium and 65 percent regular in most cases.
The quality of gasoline in the pipeline must meet certain standards, of course. This doesn't mean it will always be exactly the same, however.
It is possible that your car will respond well to one particular company's additive. It's possible, but I think if you really tested the notion well you'd find other explanations for why your performance and/or mileage was up/down based on your choice of gasolines. I do know that Chevron's Techron works when I pour 12 ounces into my car's tank, but I don't know if the concentration of Techron in Chevron's gasoline is high enough to really do much. Think about it: If that stuff is actually worth fifty cents an ounce, and the recommended dose is about one ounce per gallon of fuel in your tank, it would run the cost of the Chevron branded gasoline up way too much to be competitive. Unless, of course, there are only trace amounts of the Techron in the branded gas, which is the case.
When you get into unbranded gasolines you're in a "whole 'nother world." Unbranded gasoline can come from any terminal out there. It's the cheap gas of the day. This doesn't mean that the gas is no good, it simply means that if Conoco/Phillips has the best gasoline price of the day, it's a safe bet that's where your local Racetrack, Sheetz, Wilco/Hess, or fill in the blank got their fuel from.
Most of us cannot tell any real difference between Shell branded or Chevron branded gasoline and what our local chain convienience (unbranded) stores sell. And that's not surprising since the base fuel is exactly the same stuff. Shell, Chevron, and unbranded gasolines all comes up the pipeline at the same time; it's the same stuff. Only the miniscule additive package makes it any different.
We've all heard "Don't buy _______ gas because they put water in it." This is absurd for more reasons that I've got time to sit here and type out. But the most glaring flaw in this twisted logic is that gasoline and water don't mix. The water settles to the bottom of the tank. The sumps are set at 12 inches off the floors of oil terminal holding tanks and water checks are made daily (and required by law). It's nearly impossible for water to be loaded onto a gasoline tanker truck and subsequently delivered to the customer.
If you do find water in a retailer's gasoline, it got there by leaking into his ground tanks. This does happen, of course. Most newer stations have Veeder-Root tank monitoring systems these days. This system will sound an alarm if water is present in the ground tank.
So basically I just shop price for my personal gasoline. There's a chain in this area called "GO-Mart" which tends to keep the prices down. I rarely buy a full tank of gas from any branded retailer anymore. While the additives that the big gasoline retailers use are only used in very, very small amounts, they are in there. And this (along with national advertising campaigns) runs the cost of the branded gasolines up. And since I can't see any difference in my vehicles I can't justify the higher prices of the branded gasolines.
If I could recommend purchasing gas from any retailer, I would say go to the retailer that moves the most gasoline. His tanks are probably the cleanest. His gasoline is probably the freshest off the pipeline. His ground sump and dispenser filters are going to be changed much more often. Since his business plan is obviously to sell maximum volume, he'll be meticulous in keeping filters maintained, and he'll have a fuel tank monitoring system (the Veeder-Root system mentioned earlier) which will alert him if water is ever present in his tanks.
Dan
What I can tell you about "branded" gasoline is this: Sometimes it ain't what you think it is. And the additives which are put into the branded gasolines are added in such small amounts it may or may not have the advertised effects on your engine/fuel system.
Of course the states regulate the octane advertised on the pumps, but no agency (to my knowledge) ever checks for the additives which are purported to be present in the branded gasolines.
It then becomes possible for branded stations to sell gasoline which doesn't have the additives that the signs and commercials say that it has. This can occur when the additive injector system fails at the loading terminal, or when the terminal runs out of an additive.
Additives in gasoline are just like additives in oil; they are "added" to the base product. All gas begins as pretty much the same stuff. Regular unlead and premium for all oil terminals in a given area comes up the same pipeline. We pull off of Colonial Pipeline in this area, and a small bit off a branch pipeline called Plantation Pipeline. When Citgo, Chevron, Conoco, Amoco, Texaco, Shell, and the rest fill their huge terminal storage tanks the gas comes off the same pipeline at pretty much the same time. There is one exception: Amoco Ultimate Premium is refined an extra step, and it comes up the pipeline all by itself. Other company's 93 octane premium fuels (I don't know anything about Sunoco fuels as they aren't distributed in my area) are the same before the additives are injected into the gasoline when it is being loaded onto the transport tanker trucks.
There are a couple of different octanes out there for what can be called "premium" gasoline. Read the pump. If it's 92, that ain't bad. 93 is better. If it's 91 I'd definitely pass. The lower octane premiums are simply cut a bit with regular unleaded. That's also where "midgrade" or "plus" gasoline comes from; it's mixed as it goes on the tanker truck--35 percent premium and 65 percent regular in most cases.
The quality of gasoline in the pipeline must meet certain standards, of course. This doesn't mean it will always be exactly the same, however.
It is possible that your car will respond well to one particular company's additive. It's possible, but I think if you really tested the notion well you'd find other explanations for why your performance and/or mileage was up/down based on your choice of gasolines. I do know that Chevron's Techron works when I pour 12 ounces into my car's tank, but I don't know if the concentration of Techron in Chevron's gasoline is high enough to really do much. Think about it: If that stuff is actually worth fifty cents an ounce, and the recommended dose is about one ounce per gallon of fuel in your tank, it would run the cost of the Chevron branded gasoline up way too much to be competitive. Unless, of course, there are only trace amounts of the Techron in the branded gas, which is the case.
When you get into unbranded gasolines you're in a "whole 'nother world." Unbranded gasoline can come from any terminal out there. It's the cheap gas of the day. This doesn't mean that the gas is no good, it simply means that if Conoco/Phillips has the best gasoline price of the day, it's a safe bet that's where your local Racetrack, Sheetz, Wilco/Hess, or fill in the blank got their fuel from.
Most of us cannot tell any real difference between Shell branded or Chevron branded gasoline and what our local chain convienience (unbranded) stores sell. And that's not surprising since the base fuel is exactly the same stuff. Shell, Chevron, and unbranded gasolines all comes up the pipeline at the same time; it's the same stuff. Only the miniscule additive package makes it any different.
We've all heard "Don't buy _______ gas because they put water in it." This is absurd for more reasons that I've got time to sit here and type out. But the most glaring flaw in this twisted logic is that gasoline and water don't mix. The water settles to the bottom of the tank. The sumps are set at 12 inches off the floors of oil terminal holding tanks and water checks are made daily (and required by law). It's nearly impossible for water to be loaded onto a gasoline tanker truck and subsequently delivered to the customer.
If you do find water in a retailer's gasoline, it got there by leaking into his ground tanks. This does happen, of course. Most newer stations have Veeder-Root tank monitoring systems these days. This system will sound an alarm if water is present in the ground tank.
So basically I just shop price for my personal gasoline. There's a chain in this area called "GO-Mart" which tends to keep the prices down. I rarely buy a full tank of gas from any branded retailer anymore. While the additives that the big gasoline retailers use are only used in very, very small amounts, they are in there. And this (along with national advertising campaigns) runs the cost of the branded gasolines up. And since I can't see any difference in my vehicles I can't justify the higher prices of the branded gasolines.
If I could recommend purchasing gas from any retailer, I would say go to the retailer that moves the most gasoline. His tanks are probably the cleanest. His gasoline is probably the freshest off the pipeline. His ground sump and dispenser filters are going to be changed much more often. Since his business plan is obviously to sell maximum volume, he'll be meticulous in keeping filters maintained, and he'll have a fuel tank monitoring system (the Veeder-Root system mentioned earlier) which will alert him if water is ever present in his tanks.
Dan
2nd Gear
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 60
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From: Ballwin, mo
It is actually kinda funny (in an odd sort of way) because Phillips 66 in in the top tier list and that's who I used all the time because it was just down the street from my home. When I was having engine issues last year they tested my fuel and informed me it was 15% ethanol! Top Tier my left you know what! 
Luckily everything was repaired and no blame was placed, but still...
No more Phillips 66 EVER!
Luckily everything was repaired and no blame was placed, but still...
No more Phillips 66 EVER!
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6th Gear
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,684
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From: Upsidedownsville, CA
It is actually kinda funny (in an odd sort of way) because Phillips 66 in in the top tier list and that's who I used all the time because it was just down the street from my home. When I was having engine issues last year they tested my fuel and informed me it was 15% ethanol! Top Tier my left you know what!
Luckily everything was repaired and no blame was placed, but still...
No more Phillips 66 EVER!
Luckily everything was repaired and no blame was placed, but still...
No more Phillips 66 EVER!
And after reading iwashmycar's post...I maybe changing the way I fill my tank.
I maybe going with the bottle additive of Techron every 3k or so.
6th Gear
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,118
Likes: 1
Quote from iwashmycar's post...
"If I could recommend purchasing gas from any retailer, I would say go to the retailer that moves the most gasoline. His tanks are probably the cleanest. His gasoline is probably the freshest off the pipeline. His ground sump and dispenser filters are going to be changed much more often. Since his business plan is obviously to sell maximum volume, he'll be meticulous in keeping filters maintained, and he'll have a fuel tank monitoring system (the Veeder-Root system mentioned earlier) which will alert him if water is ever present in his tanks."
For me, that's Costco. More often than not, whenever I buy gas at a Costco, I see a tanker. I very rarely see tankers (or customers for that matter!) at the so-called top-tier stations. As far as I'm concerned, the TT hype is just marketing rubbish. I use Costco fuel in all my cars and have never had a problem. Freshness trumps miracle additives, imo.
However, I do use a bottle of concentrated Techron fuel additive just before an oil change...
"If I could recommend purchasing gas from any retailer, I would say go to the retailer that moves the most gasoline. His tanks are probably the cleanest. His gasoline is probably the freshest off the pipeline. His ground sump and dispenser filters are going to be changed much more often. Since his business plan is obviously to sell maximum volume, he'll be meticulous in keeping filters maintained, and he'll have a fuel tank monitoring system (the Veeder-Root system mentioned earlier) which will alert him if water is ever present in his tanks."
For me, that's Costco. More often than not, whenever I buy gas at a Costco, I see a tanker. I very rarely see tankers (or customers for that matter!) at the so-called top-tier stations. As far as I'm concerned, the TT hype is just marketing rubbish. I use Costco fuel in all my cars and have never had a problem. Freshness trumps miracle additives, imo.
However, I do use a bottle of concentrated Techron fuel additive just before an oil change...
4th Gear
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 587
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From: Richmond, VA
I retired after 25 years working for a major oil company. I can corroborate what Dan in iwashmycar's post has said, with a few exceptions:
- the company I worked for spent millions of dollars every year on R&D in the fuels area. Their additives made a measurable, positive difference in engine performance, injector cleanliness, etc. They would never have endangered their reputation in the marketplace by sloppy handling of additives. The negative consequences were too great and the investment they had made too large. Could there have been a rare lapse? Sure, but nothing consistent. When a "major" is sued, they must be able to document their products and processes;
- deliveries of fuel to local service stations were made in tank trucks with multiple compartments. They separated the 3 grades of gasoline and diesel fuel, which were then dropped into separate tanks at the station. Any mixing of octane levels was done at the refinery and/or terminal, not the local station. The one exception I'm aware of was at Sunoco stations, where you could "dial" your octane on the pump and the products were mixed onsite...not sure if this is still done or not;
- someone on another thread mentioned service station storage tanks made of plastics being subject to cracking and leaking, allowing water to get into gasoline. Actually, the opposite is true. Many, if not all, older metal tanks are being replaced with newer (sometimes involving plastics) tanks to prevent galvanic corrosion. Corroded metal tanks allowed fuel to seep out into local water supplies (another reason MTBE additives were banned). Regular pressure testing of tanks is required by law to ensure leakage is not occuring;
- gasoline itself is often rebranded. Oil companies have formal (and quite legal) "exchange" agreements, whereby a company with a refinery in one part of the US will supply other companies, in exchange for receiving gasoline from companies with refineries in locations where they have none. The exchange contracts spell out the price increment the receiving company will pay. Many gasoline marketers have no refineries and buy all their product. The proprietary additives are added at the loading terminals, preserving the unique qualities of a particular brand (if a company chooses to include additives; not all do).
- the company I worked for spent millions of dollars every year on R&D in the fuels area. Their additives made a measurable, positive difference in engine performance, injector cleanliness, etc. They would never have endangered their reputation in the marketplace by sloppy handling of additives. The negative consequences were too great and the investment they had made too large. Could there have been a rare lapse? Sure, but nothing consistent. When a "major" is sued, they must be able to document their products and processes;
- deliveries of fuel to local service stations were made in tank trucks with multiple compartments. They separated the 3 grades of gasoline and diesel fuel, which were then dropped into separate tanks at the station. Any mixing of octane levels was done at the refinery and/or terminal, not the local station. The one exception I'm aware of was at Sunoco stations, where you could "dial" your octane on the pump and the products were mixed onsite...not sure if this is still done or not;
- someone on another thread mentioned service station storage tanks made of plastics being subject to cracking and leaking, allowing water to get into gasoline. Actually, the opposite is true. Many, if not all, older metal tanks are being replaced with newer (sometimes involving plastics) tanks to prevent galvanic corrosion. Corroded metal tanks allowed fuel to seep out into local water supplies (another reason MTBE additives were banned). Regular pressure testing of tanks is required by law to ensure leakage is not occuring;
- gasoline itself is often rebranded. Oil companies have formal (and quite legal) "exchange" agreements, whereby a company with a refinery in one part of the US will supply other companies, in exchange for receiving gasoline from companies with refineries in locations where they have none. The exchange contracts spell out the price increment the receiving company will pay. Many gasoline marketers have no refineries and buy all their product. The proprietary additives are added at the loading terminals, preserving the unique qualities of a particular brand (if a company chooses to include additives; not all do).
2nd Gear
Joined: Nov 2008
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The manual etc. also recommends using MINI oil, wax, etc. So you figure out if it is marketing or real. Top Tier gas is a conglomerate that markets and pays money for its recommendations. It is very good gas but there are plenty of other gas that are fine for a MINI, or any car. Any brand name is fine.
OVERDRIVE
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,602
Likes: 107
From: Arizona
In Southern California all gasoline comes from the same three refineries.
Shell, Chevron, Mobil, Costco, and 'Thrifty Mart' all get their gas from the same place.
Since there are so few refineries in this country, I'd imagine the story is the same elsewhere, too.
Pay 20-cents more for Chevron if you just gotta have 'Techron,' but, the gas is probably "fresher" at a high-volume seller like Costco than it is at a more expensive "gas station."
And, all this talk about non-top-tier gasoline voiding your warranty is bunk.
Seriously.
Shell, Chevron, Mobil, Costco, and 'Thrifty Mart' all get their gas from the same place.
Since there are so few refineries in this country, I'd imagine the story is the same elsewhere, too.
Pay 20-cents more for Chevron if you just gotta have 'Techron,' but, the gas is probably "fresher" at a high-volume seller like Costco than it is at a more expensive "gas station."
And, all this talk about non-top-tier gasoline voiding your warranty is bunk.
Seriously.
The owner I bought my 03 MCS was the original owner. About a month after he bought the car, it started having issues with cranking and staying started. The problem was that he was using high octane gas, and as the mechanic explained it to him, it didn't give as good of an explosion. He changed to regular old 87 and within a week, the problem was gone.
I looked in the manual and it says that the compression ratio in the S engine is something like 8.1:1. I was told a while back that anything under 10:1 does not require premium.
This car now has over 87000 miles, and it runs great. So I think the top tier gas thing is a myth. I agree with the seafoam though. 87 definitely creates some carbon build up... The seafoam cleans it right out. Just my $.02.
I looked in the manual and it says that the compression ratio in the S engine is something like 8.1:1. I was told a while back that anything under 10:1 does not require premium.
This car now has over 87000 miles, and it runs great. So I think the top tier gas thing is a myth. I agree with the seafoam though. 87 definitely creates some carbon build up... The seafoam cleans it right out. Just my $.02.
For instance, the new 5.0L V8 that Ford has developed can run regular gas with 11:1 compression. Also, the 8.1:1 compression ratio of the R53 is the mechanical compression of the air volume that enters the cylinder, but that ignores the fact that the air is already compressed well above atmospheric conditions by the supercharger.
I like simple.
That said, it is tough to argue with the results. I would say "time will tell if it matters" but time has pretty much already spoken, unless the original owner lied to me and he was filling it with premium all along.
That said, it is tough to argue with the results. I would say "time will tell if it matters" but time has pretty much already spoken, unless the original owner lied to me and he was filling it with premium all along.
Simple is nice,for sure. My point was just that the engine's compression ratio is far from the only variable in determining the need for higher octane.
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,578
Likes: 5
From: Paradise
The owner I bought my 03 MCS was the original owner. About a month after he bought the car, it started having issues with cranking and staying started. The problem was that he was using high octane gas, and as the mechanic explained it to him, it didn't give as good of an explosion. He changed to regular old 87 and within a week, the problem was gone.
I looked in the manual and it says that the compression ratio in the S engine is something like 8.1:1. I was told a while back that anything under 10:1 does not require premium.
This car now has over 87000 miles, and it runs great. So I think the top tier gas thing is a myth. I agree with the seafoam though. 87 definitely creates some carbon build up... The seafoam cleans it right out. Just my $.02.
I looked in the manual and it says that the compression ratio in the S engine is something like 8.1:1. I was told a while back that anything under 10:1 does not require premium.
This car now has over 87000 miles, and it runs great. So I think the top tier gas thing is a myth. I agree with the seafoam though. 87 definitely creates some carbon build up... The seafoam cleans it right out. Just my $.02.
The manual for my 2007 R56 MCS highly recommends premium (AKI 91) gas. It goes on to say that you can use down to AKI 87, but it may cause pinging.
However, the topic of this thread is about Top Tier Gas which has little to do with AKI ratings. It is about % of ethanol, additives, and other quality issues. The manual says:
Use high-quality brands
Field experience has indicated significant differ- ences in fuel quality: volatility, composition, additives, etc., among gasolines offered for sale in the United States and Canada. Fuels contain- ing up to and including 10% ethanol or other oxygenates with up to 2.8% oxygen by weight, that is, 15% MTBE or 3% methanol plus an equivalent amount of co-solvent, will not void the applicable warranties with respect to defects in materials or workmanship.
Field experience has indicated significant differ- ences in fuel quality: volatility, composition, additives, etc., among gasolines offered for sale in the United States and Canada. Fuels contain- ing up to and including 10% ethanol or other oxygenates with up to 2.8% oxygen by weight, that is, 15% MTBE or 3% methanol plus an equivalent amount of co-solvent, will not void the applicable warranties with respect to defects in materials or workmanship.
OVERDRIVE
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,602
Likes: 107
From: Arizona
I think the ethanol and MTBE changes in Arizona depending on the air conditions (higher in winter) and where you are (more in Phoenix, less in a town like mine). You don't have any control over that stuff, it's in every gas station's tank by law I think.
You're in the wrong forum. This is 2nd Gen. The 2nd Gen MCS engine has a compression ratio of 10.5:1, and the MC is higher. What is true for your 1st Gen engine may not be true for the entirely different 2nd Gen engine.
The manual for my 2007 R56 MCS highly recommends premium (AKI 91) gas. It goes on to say that you can use down to AKI 87, but it may cause pinging.
However, the topic of this thread is about Top Tier Gas which has little to do with AKI ratings. It is about % of ethanol, additives, and other quality issues. The manual says:
The manual for my 2007 R56 MCS highly recommends premium (AKI 91) gas. It goes on to say that you can use down to AKI 87, but it may cause pinging.
However, the topic of this thread is about Top Tier Gas which has little to do with AKI ratings. It is about % of ethanol, additives, and other quality issues. The manual says:
I also appreciate the info on additives, etc - because I had never heard that.
I know in my area (Southeast PA) all our gas stations pump 15% ethanol. It says so on every pump near me.
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,578
Likes: 5
From: Paradise
Bummer. I don't know how that is for your 1st Gen, but it would be bad for 2nd Gen. Over 10% might void the warranty on a 2nd Gen MINI.
Most of the posts I read state that the carbon build up is on the back of the intake valves. No gas ever hits the back of the valve, top tier or other. Because MINI uses direct fuel injection. Right into the cylinder. So why would gas be the cause? But I can see where Seafoam added through the PCV hose would clean it off. As a mechanic back in the 70's we used to drip a little water down he carb to clean out the carbon. Wonder if this would still work if added like the Seafoam is.
4th Gear
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 378
Likes: 0
Thanks for the correction. I actually jumped to this thread from a related search and just chimed in. Didn't realize I was in the second gen part of the board, so my apologies.
I also appreciate the info on additives, etc - because I had never heard that.
I know in my area (Southeast PA) all our gas stations pump 15% ethanol. It says so on every pump near me.
I also appreciate the info on additives, etc - because I had never heard that.
I know in my area (Southeast PA) all our gas stations pump 15% ethanol. It says so on every pump near me.
So what do MINI owners do if the mix is more than 10% as the "minimum" required is 10%?
Here is the link to the city ordinance. Check Chapter 16.60.020 Section B.1 and 2
http://www.portlandonline.com/Auditor/index.cfm?c=28608
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,578
Likes: 5
From: Paradise
That would be a disaster for MINI owners, bad for the environment, and raise food prices. It even creates more pollution than gas. Corn ethanol is such a scam.
4th Gear
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 470
Likes: 1
From: Harleysville PA
I found this thread interesting and started doing some checking. Go to www.pure-gas.org for listing of gas stations with ethanol free gas. It appears that various environmental laws determine where it can be sold. The site sorts them by state. As most of you probably guessed, California is not even a choice. I checked Pennsylvania, and since I believe we have five different sets of EPA regulations which vary by area, you can only buy it in the least populated areas. So my Mini will probably never see ethanol free gas, especially since our governor thinks it great!