For those who care about reliability, Consumer Reports is a useful tool.

For those who don't care much about reliability, why worry about Consumer Reports? Why even discuss the issue?

 

Was this calculated before or after Lexus's biggest recall..



..due to floor mats

 

What makes a car "reliable"? If your hood scoop is warped or your sunroof doesn't open when its warm out, does that mean you can't "rely" on it?

 

I still love my MINI, but if I had kids, or didn't have a job where I had access to another car when mine left me with no way to get to work I'd either have a second car or another car that met all of my needs (that is, really reliable transportation).

That's not to say I'll feel different if mine ever gets "fixed" but I've been without it for too many weeks or left calling for a ride too many times to really trust it.

 

MINI has taken a big hit with CR. I bought the 2009 buying guide to help me pick out new apps for my new home and the 2007 MCS rates "much better than average." granted they only go thru 2007, but I bet the mounting valve train issues have been part of this slam into reality.

 

Good point. From what others have reported it looks like these rankings come from people who fill out questionairs. I'm sure there are a lot of problems reported such as dropping windows, rattles, etc. I don't consider these "reliability problems". I've had my Cooper 1.5 yrs and 22K miles and had no reliability problems at all. It has never failed to "get me there". (rattle free I might add)

 

My point exactly. I consider "reliability" to be fewer problems of any kind, whether or not they impact my ability to get from point A to point B. Window dipping problems, melting hoods scoops, noisy timing chains are all a problem for me. And this is what Consumer Reports surveys measure. That's why I like them and find them useful.

If you are not concerned about such matters, find another source for your information. No problem.

My wife's 2000 VW New Beetle had all sorts of interior trim issues, which continued long after the warranty was up (as well as functional issues, like a plastic water pump impeller that broke, and on and on). They bugged me because we had paid good money for the car. They continued to manufacture the car with those same issues (I have checked their forums) as long as the car was built.

My 2002 Toyota Tacoma pickup had zero issues (except for a recall, which I liked because I got new control arm bushings) as long as I owned it. I liked that a lot.

There's no reason to disparage or impugn Consumer Reports reliability surveys. They do what they say they do. If you want something different, go elsewhere.

I'm not into mods, so whereas I may read people's posts on their mods, I don't comment. Why should I? They don't concern me. If CR surveys don't concern you, why comment?

 

CR bulds the reliability statistics on what their readers report. It has been awhile since I filled out the CR questionaire, but my recollection is that problems are catagorized. If you look up a car on their site, you will see the reliability broken down into the following categories:

Engine Major
Engine Cooling
Transmission Major
Transmission Minor
Drive System
Fuel System
Engine Minor
Electrical System

They don't seem to have a category for body work, so the melted scoop may not even factor into their calculations.

 

i think Window problems might a part of RELIAbility, you can't RELY on leaving loose/valuable articles in your vehicle and having random window roll downs, or if it's rainy, it's not very RELIABLE of the car to have to have parts of your interior/upholstery repaired because of such a small issue.
just saying

categorized under "Electrical System" right?

 

Fuel System could be a concern, I just had the high pressure pump replaced at less than 6k. Its always nice to be able to start the car without 5-7 tries, the neighbors like it better now that I don't have to rev the engine as soon as it fires to try and keep it running.

 

The article says the following:

"Findings are based on responses on more than 1.4 million vehicles owned or leased by subscribers to Consumer Reports or its Web site, www.ConsumerReports.org, the biggest response in the Annual Auto Survey's history. The survey was conducted in the spring of 2009 by Consumer Reports' National Survey Research Center and covered model years 2000 to 2009."

It is interesting that they bothered to list both Pontiac and Saturn since there will not be any 2010 models form either since both these companies no longer exist.

 

Seems like the predicted reliability of a car that won't exist would be either 100% or 0.

 

It makes me wonder if the sample size for MINI is even statistically significant. There are not a HUGE number of MINIs in the first place. Then you need MINI owners/lessees who subscribe to CR or their website. Then you need to know how many of them were aware of the survey, and how many of them bothered to fill it out and send it back in. And then its probably somewhat slanted towards people who complain (like the forums, you're not as likely to get people taking the time to compliment as you are people with gripes and complaints). And if it covered model years 2000-2009, are they predicting the reliability of 2nd gen MINIs on responses from first gen owners?

And on the point of "if CR surveys don't concern me, why comment?": Well,
I feel there is reason to "disparage and impugn" CR's surveys based on sample size alone. And people feel differently about their cars reliability and expectations based on the manufacturer they've bought from and will respond differently too. Will a Hyundai owner have the same expectations as someone with a Porsche? An owner of a Toyota Tacoma might consider a recall a "zero issue" while a MINI owner with a window dipping problem considers it a lemon law issue and will give it the lowest score possible.

 

The survey covers a variety of products, not just cars. So, it wouldn't necessarily attract just people who are angry about their cars. With a response of 1.4 million, it doesn't sound like it just got the complainers.

An email with a link to the survey is emailed to all subscribers of the CR web site. I got that alert and filled out the survey. It only asks for information on cars going back to a certain year. I think it was 2002, but I'm not sure.

I believe that people who only get the magazine receive a survey through the mail.

And you do this with pure speculation. You seem to know very little about the CR survey, yet you seem to feel the need to disparage it. Could this be an emotional response to their less than glowing report on the car you own?

The survey didn't ask how you felt about it. It simply asked if repairs were needed in a specific category (see my list above).

I'm not a CR fanboy. Their evaluations have limitations. When they test products, the often cannot offer any info on whether the product will hold up, or not. So, a dishwasher, refrigerator, TV, or DVD player that gets a glowing review, may turn out to have horrible long-term reliability problems.

With some products, such as electronics, the model cycle is so fast that they cannot keep up. One can read their tests, then go shopping and find that everything they reviewed has been replaced by a newer model.

They often have an average consumer point of view that isn't useful to an enthusiast.

However, I occasionally find their information useful, and not available from other sources.

 

Consumer Reports frequently states that they are unable to report on a particular item because of insufficient response sample size. They understand "statistically significant".

 

I never said they "just got the complainers".

I still doubt that anywhere close to the majority of people who got an email survey filled it out. You did; yay for you. Have a cookie.

If you actually read what I posted, there was more than "pure speculation" as it was based on whatever information about the survey was posted here and some questions I raised based on that. Since you are a wealth of information about everything and can't let a thread go by without enlightening the rest of us with your vast knowledge, what was the sample size of MINI owners? How many are 2nd gen owners?

No, it couldn't be an emotional response to a "less than glowing report on a car I own" as throwing up a chart is not a report and I don't own a 2010. And even if it was a report and I did own a 2010 (or whatever else they might've felt the need to "report" on) I still wouldn't have an "emotional response" because I still would give it as much credence as it deserves. Besides, I don't care what they or anyone else thinks of anything I own.

I do find it humorous that you disparage CR product tests in your response and yet felt the need to act as if my doing so was blasphemy. Your occasional finding of their information being useful is probably when it agrees with what you want it to, otherwise it isn't useful.

 

I find it funny how all the MINI owners are butthurt by this report. Yet the proof is in the Stock Problems/Issues forum. So really, are you that surprised? Nothing can touch the Japanese when it comes to reliability, bottom line.

However, the reason we buy MINIs is because we are enthusiasts. I love my 07 R56 S. It's fun as hell to drive, and fun as hell to personalize. Yet, when I was shopping for it, I knew a warranty was a must, just because it's a BMW at the end of the day.

Germans build the best driving experience, but the Japanese build the best car.

 

Who is butthurt? I can assure you I am not. I find it funny how "all the MINI owners" take a "report" like this and are like "Aha! This PROVES the stock problems/issues I am having are exclusive to the MINI and every other car is completely and undeniably more reliable and problem-free as evidenced by the lack of stock problems/issues postings in their forums!"

 

I have enjoyed both of my MINI Coopers a 2006 R50 and a 2009 R56 S. But neither one has been reliable. The first car spent over four months in the shop in two years and nine months of ownership. The second car has been in the shop three times since I picked it up at the end of July. I guess I am just a complainer, didn't like it when my DPSM screamed static at up to 128db even when turned off. Don't like it when my new car goes dead, or won't start in the morning.