After reading this thread, I really want to go drive an R53 to see how different it is.

 

I had an 05 MCS for 3.5 years up until early last fall, and it was a pain in the **** BQ and mechanics-wise, but I think the electro hydraulic steering system, despite its persnickety nature, really did give one a connected feel to the road. Too bad it had so many flaws.

But my 09 MCSa JCW is no less connected to the road, it's just a different connection that all-electric steering affords. Oh yeah and it's in the tires too.

To compare with a PT Cruiser, however, is fallacious. And Ive driven a lot of those as rentals. It's a freaking truck FCOL

 

That doesn't quite capture the spirit of the original post. It came off as more as an insult to 2nd gen owners more than anything (is there anyone here who thinks the PT Cruiser is actually a good car, at least compared to an R56?), thus I can understand the responses.

That said, the spirit of the post can still be appreciated (as well as the OP's apology).

 

The stock '05 S I drove a few times has a lot of great qualities I wish the R56 had, but overall the R56 is such a better car (in stock form IMO). Here's my mini comparison:

The R53 has great steering feel, has better interior styling, sounds great and has a real visceral feel to it, but the downsides are too great for me when the R56 is available for comparison. The R53's stock S motor revs super slow, brakes aren't that great and rattles worse than any car I've driven. I won't bring up the quality issues, since I think both cars have their share of them. The R56 may be a little too refined for it's own good, perhaps, but I think it's still fantastic.

 

Y'll notice a diff: not as much torque low or so usuable across the rpm band, yr hood scoop is 100% functional--feeding the 'charger's sweet siren song--and wont melt, and the steering is generally more precise. But you cannot go as far on a tank of gas as an R56.

I loved my 05. However, I didnt love its many problems too numerous to list here (compared to my 09). But I love my 09 as well.

Oh yeah y'll notice the 1st gen int/ext construction materials are also more substantial and heavier, keeping in tune with the iron block and generally bulletproof Tritec engine.

 

1972 Cooper? According to Mini Cooper and S by Walton the last Cooper S was produced in the UK in July 1971..... The Cooper in its original form and S existing from 61 thru 71. (reference is made to the possibility of some straggling production in Australia but "not on any great scale". Presumable from parts leftover in assembly plants there)

a 1972 might have been a Mini but not a Cooper to be technical; or Walton got it wrong.


Cooper was later re-introduced much later ala an 80's Shelby Mustang .... more of a set of stickers then the 'real thing' ..

or was it Italian???? One of those Innocent ones ....

(end picking of nits )

That said, I have bought new a first year S of both GEN of MINI and I concur that the 02 had a suspension that enthusiats tried to built in later years with springs and sway bars.....it was tight and stiff and the consumers complained from day 1. Every year from 02 the suspension softened to the point that my first reaction to the ride of my 07 (bought off the lot) was how much it reminded me of my 75 Cutlass Salon...

On the plus side the GEN2 has better low end torque making it an easier car for most to drive. I remember when I went in for a test drive of the 02 .... early sales days ... someone who just finished their test drive told me of a good empty lot and told me "slip the clutch a lot @ takeoff or it will bog down." I did - always - and I learned that keeping the rev's over 3000 was a requirement....always (I also found the MPG was higher doing this btw). The GEN2 will pull well at 2000 making it a much better car for most. {No I did not eat the clutch in the 02 btw .... when sold at 98,000 plus the clutch was doing just fine}

just friendly observations

Owner of a 1979 "not a Cooper" with many MK1izations & Copperizations!

 

Silly comment to make on a MINI Cooper website. It's like going on the Vatican's website and calling the Pope a stupid Kraut. What do you expect? That's the definition of internet trolling - saying something outrageous simply to elicit a furor of response.

 

if bmw cooper suffers from all needless technology.. why did you even buy one?

 

Sota...
I smile when I read posts like yours. I will assume that you have driven PT Cruisers, thereby making you expert in their capabilities, or lack thereof. Let's start there.
Until I bought my 07 Cooper S, I owned a very original 1962 Cooper; a genuine rhd car that I brought over from the UK. It's tiny twin carbed engine was as anemic as the 59 OR 63 VW bugs that I owned as a teenager. It was fun in the handling dept, but being six feet tall myself, it was quite difficult to drive for more than an hour, given the legs configuration necessary. You can see a picture of it in my gallery. I sold that car, at a bargain price, to a fellow in Southern California. Many have doubted my sanity in selling that car, BUT garage space was an issue, and I opted to keep my Grinnall Scorpion III, which is a minimalist three wheeler in the British tradition, featuring a modern BMW K series cycle drivetrain. The original Mini was a dog on the freeways. It cruised at 55 mph. Running it faster than that was possible, but it was obviously running close to it's peak when at 65 and up, and not a comfortable situation.
So I bought my 07 Cooper S. Spec'd it online, kept the packages off and ordered item by item. I kept it rather plain. I didn't need another attention getter in my life; I have the Scorpion if I want to go out and holler LOOK AT ME while I drive. :-) But as to driving in the real modern world...IMO (I say again IMO...as a former 62 Cooper owner) there is little comparison in the two vehicles. BUT they are 45 years apart. The modern Mini is, through no fault of BMW or any one person, SADDLED with many necessary design items to make it safe and up to modern car standards. I would NEVER want to be in anything beyond a parking lot accident in that old 62. It was UNSAFE in any street accident. I can drive that second generation car coast to coast in comfort, and track it on the weekends. It gets great mileage, and it handles well enough to constantly put a smile on my face.
I'd like to add that I NEVER drove a modern Mini prior to ordering mine. THAT'S RIGHT...NEVER. Never even looked at them at the dealer. Just ORDERED IT as I saw fit after studying up.
Oh, I'd add... I HAVE DRIVEN a PT CRUISER...ONE TIME...a friend's car. There is no comparison.
Your comments drift more toward inflammatory rather than informative, IMO...IMO. But hey, it's a forum and you're welcome. But anybody that thinks that a classic Cooper is a useable, viable vehicle compared to the modern Mini...IMO, you are way off base. Those old Minis are swell little cars for what they are...but as with the 67 and back VWs, best left to enthusiast use and weekend fun.
Since owning my 07, I've had the opportunity to try the earlier version of the modern car. I prefer the turbo's intensity and lack of windup, (particularly the max torque kick at 1700 rpms and up), and the six speed getrag gearbox... and I have no interest in the earlier modern car, beyond appreciating them as Minis. I like em all, but I'd recommend the turbo rig to anyone in search of a Mini. But the modern Mini as a PT Cruiser...you're way off base, and you surely know it.

 

If you really enjoy driving a responsive car, that urges you to throw it into curves test one, without a salesman.

 

http://www.motoringfile.com/2007/11/...-s-r53-vs-r56/

MF disagrees with you on your comparison of the R53 to the r56

 

I can agree with most of what you mentioned about the original cooper. It would be a dangerous car in an accident. In fact, when in college for a year at University of Queensland, I drove a Mini Moke (later sold back to the seller when I left). That was really scary. Right hand drive too.

But I'm 6'4" and remember lots of interior room. Seemed like more than the R53, but then with the smaller classic there was nothing but rather thin sheet metal between the driver and traffic!

As far as raw power and high speed is concerned, that is not what the car was about. It was the handling. Nothing BMW's Mini's have even comes close, including my car with JCW suspension and modern tire technology.

Still, while you guys were responding to my earlier post I too a drive to a Costco about 20 min. from here. The 2nd Generation Mini, while I admit it is not as bad as the PT Panel Truck, is not a fun ride.

My Classic Coopers had primitive seats, didn't have working radios, and I was living in Boston where the car's heater was a joke. It was very noisy too. Talk about rattles. The inside sounded like a cement mixer. But it was the most fun car I ever drove, in Boston traffic, that is. Years later, I'm getting around in my '06 JCW unit, and realized yesterday, with this loaner, that the '09 will not be a replacement if I have to get a new car. Just MO.

Cheers.

 

MF depends on car sales for its existence. You really think they are objective in their review of new models?

Please.

 

I agree. Silly of me.

 

Actually, that's why my car is in for service. Clutch. But still, I rather have to slip the clutch, than slow down in the twisty bits.

 

I really should have posted my comments with the earlier generation. Do you think it would help if I apologized again?

 

Well done and good responses. No apology needed, again.

I suspect we R56 owners don't like our noses rubbed into the stuff.

Btw, note my R56 is slightly modded. It started out with the base suspension which I liked on the freeway but it needed a tweak or two.

Between twisties and lapping days, it needed more.

 

Seriously? Nah, I think everyone's crystal clear about this thread. Won't stop other people from not reading the entire thread and adding their two stupid cents, though.

I really want to drive a R53 now, btw, your opinion is common among 1st gen owners, the ride and handling is truer to the classic Mini. In particular I'd love to drive a GP for a few days. Last time my dealer was out of MINI loaners so I had the privilege of driving a base Chevy Aveo rental. Yuck.

 

maybe BMW just made the MINI more suitable as a daily driver and to meet government safety standards and whatnot,

Do people drive through twisties everyday?
I don't, but i sure pretend like it

 

After I read that, I basically instinctively knew to ignore the rest of the post.

 

There are TONS of first gen owners who think that the second gen is a travesty... And they've said it.....

What I still find amusing is how personal some people take it...

matt

 

Good point. Seriously, who doesn't love a 335i to thrash every now and again when one has something as slow as a MINI???

 

On the 335i. Sure, its a fantastic car. And surely fast. But the comment misses the point. Driving a Cooper is not primarily about going fast, and I would submit, that driving f-a-s-t on streets, is a fools game.

The Cooper driving experience is about handling, and not necessarily at 80+ mph.

So yes, I love driving my Cooper, and driving the 335i is ... impressive. I just don't see the point, because I am not interested in racing between stop lights, and there is not a race track between my home and office. As far as maneuvering in traffic or driving on back roads is concerned, I'll take the Cooper. And when I get a 3 series as a loaner, I just can't wait to get my Cooper back.

 

Well your comment just said you can't love a 3-series, it doesn't exactly explain why. I think most of us love the opportunity to get one if we don't already own one.

335i handles great. Even below 80 mph. My PT cruiser-esque R56 even handles nicely over 80+ mph.

Hey, to each their own. If you think your R53 cooper is the ultimate BMW, good for you. Just, um, be careful "maneuvering in traffic or driving on back roads."

 

And here's what Fifth Gear has to say:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uA7e-sB3EQ