Speaking from my own experience, as I got more seat time with the car on the track, my perception that the car understeered too much began to evaporate. In my first few track experiences the front end seamed to plow (understeer) and the front wheels squeeled like a pig. It drove my crazy! I installed an adjustable rear antisway bar. By the time I finally got it installed, I was plowing the front end less and less. When I installed it, I set the setting on the stiffist setting. After one track session I set it on the middle setting. Now I have it on the softest setting.
The things that I attribute the understeer going away were obviously improvements in my driving skills.
Concentrating on BEING SMOOTH with the steering wheel. Concentrating on UNWINDING the wheel when coming out of a turn. Being PATIENT on getting the front wheels straightened out before giving it full trottle. If the front wheels are still turned when you jump on the gas, they will just spin and squeel and cause the front to loose traction and plow the front end. Getting most of the turning made by the time you hit the Apex so you have a straighter line from the Apex to the Exit point. With the wheels now mostly straighted out you can go to full trottle from the Apex, maximizing Exit Speed. Going into a corner too Hot will also make any car plow. To improve lap times, it's all about having the FASTEST EXIT speed out of a corner and onto the straight away. Slow In - Fast Out!
TAIL BREAKING is impartive on these front wheel drive cars to get the weight transfered on the front drive wheels when you need it the most in a turn.
I am probably going to get a set of slicks but I purposely waited. Having slicks will coverup mistakes and create bad driving habits.
Granted, being comfortable and having fun on your track days is the main thing. However, in my opinion, the DSC limits your learning curve and masks the feedback you could be getting from the car. Eventually you WILL BE a better judge and pilot of your car than the one-size-fits-all DCS system when you have your car on the track.
But like I said be comfortable and have fun!

 

Well said. The DSC was designed for the street, not the track; IMHO it is a hindrance to track style driving...

 

I am happy that this generated so much attention and comments. Thanks for all the comments and information. CCT1, do not get angry as this is only a discussion.

I know most people do not use DSC on the track. I use it off and on and found that it does not intrude as much as reported. True, it is ultimately how you drive that counts. For me, on the track DSC does not seem to exist even though it is on. I know I can be a little slower but not by that much to matter to me. When you are smooth and do not early apex, DSC does not seem to matter that much, especially during the corner exit because you are unwinding the wheel. There is plenty of feedback with DSC on and you just need to learn what it is. Ultimately, it is the call of the person who is driving and what they are comfortable with. Just offering another view that works for me, one that may not be that popular. When your driving inputs gets really smooth, try it a few laps with DSC on. You may be surprised as I was.

Anyway, getting back to understeer and tire pressures, I will get another opportunity to test the low rear tire pressure alternative this week at wgi.

 

Slinger, I'm not offended, like you said, use what works best for you--but IMHO, the exact opposite it true--the better you get, the faster you become around the corners, the more intrusive the DSC is. If the DSC isn't clicking on much, IMHO that means you've still got plenty of room to go faster--it's not an F1 type of system; it's not designed for the track but for everyday driving.

I've run with several instructors who drive MINIs; I've yet to come across one who recommends it; I've heard more than one say "don't forget to turn the nanny off"...

But to each his own--I would throw out the opposite out there though, once you feel you are smooth enough, try turning it off and let the fun begin..

Anyway, I'm not anti-DSC, I do use it for everyday driving, but it wasn't until I turned it off the track that I became a significantly better/faster driver. You HAVE to drive smooth with the DSC off!

 

On the contary, I know instructors who will not let you drive with them unless you put on the safety stuff. Cannot blame them.

I have lots of interactions with Skippy instructors, some are good friends of mine. Ironically, they are the ones who first told me to give it a try. And when real smooth happens, DSC does intrudes less and less. But it does take time to learn this.

It is true that you become a lot faster much quicker w/o DSC. But you learn both with and without and can become a better driver. I do both and do not have issues, one session with and one without for some fun. It makes not much difference to me.

All I am trying to say is that the DSC is better than you think but only when you are smooth (steering, clutch, brake, accelerator). After you are bored with running circles around the same track and want to try something new, give it a shot.

But I think this is good information though. Shows that there is just not one way of doing things. I just want to try new techniques.

 

slinger688, I'll agree to disagree on the DSC Off or On debate.
I appreciate your feed back on the tire pressure settings.

 

No problem with the disagreement.

Do give the tire pressures a try and tell us what you think. Always eager for information and feedback.

 

i agree with slinger, dcs is not that intrusive if you are not over driving your car. this is very hard to do and understand but if you are sliding you are slowing down. if you are going full throttle while the steering wheel is turned and making the car push thats not fast. on that note if you can go full throttle while the steering wheel is turned you are going way to slow into the corner. if your getting on the throttle and you get on the gas so that the dsc is coming on that means you would be getting wheelspin which is slowing you down. remember that no matter how much power you have and no matter how much you WANT and think you can always use that power... you can only use as much as your line and tires allow you. now wheelspin/sliiding is faster than having dsc on and it slowing you down from sliding and putting down to much power to soon or incorrectly. so if you are looking for lower laptimes and dsc is coming on you will go faster if you take it off. I wouldnt ever drive around the track with it on as everylap in some corner every driver makes atleast some kind of mistake and if dsc ever comes on bad it could slow you down more than just fixing it. in hpde though I think it would be a great learning tool

dcs is incase you make a mistake. infact you could think of it as punishment.

with that being said I always turn it off

 

oh and dsc doesnt come on unless you are at a very large slip angle. you can definately be at the limit without it not letting you. This statement could possibly differ dependent on tires

 

That may be true for the R56, but on the R53 it cuts in way too early. When I accidentally leave it on, I pick it up immediately as soon as I start running hot laps, it kicks in way before the limits....

 

is it coming on at track-out, entry or mid corner? I have a 1st gen, yours may be overly sensitive

the best way I can describe this is to go watch a f1 qualifier where they let the drivers walk through their pole laps. you will notice how embarrassed they get if they ever have to really countersteer. if your in correct mode your dsc will be too. there is a very small and fine line between to slow and too fast and it requires no mistakes and to be verrrry smooth. saying that I highly doubt all the dsc are perfectly the same and I doubt they all react at the same time and what not. like I said tires thats limit is in alittle bigger slip angle definately could screw dsc up as well

 

It comes on when I'm getting back on the gas, mid corner. By that time I've braked, or trail braked depending on the corner, the wheels are pointed almost straight (the wheel is slowly being unwound here for the track out, but the wheels are more straight than turned, it's a gentle unwinding), hit the gas, gradually increasing throttle, and watch the DSC come on. And it's not like I'm jamming the throttle to the floor either...I have a LSD too, which should allow the DSC to come on a little later. With the DSC off, no problems whatsoever with sliding or coming out too wide on track out; I don't think I've hit the limit on how fast I can go on a few turns, just my level of comfort. In other words, at least on my car, the LSD is coming on way before the limit. And every MINI driver I know, two of which are instructors, feel the same way (although they're in R53's too), which is why I'm surprised to see people on the track with it on.

I've had a professional driver in the car--he'll take it for a drive again in october with my new setup (coilovers and BBK)--but he won't have anything to do with the DSC.

I haven't tried the DSC on with my R-comps though, maybe it'd be different, but it was horrible on street tires.

 

like I said I wouldn't have it on while on the track exp with street tires which have alittle more slip angle and you definately want to keep your throttle under control on track out, sliding on track out or even having the car step out on you isnt the fastest way. I think the dsc could help in that regard, not as an aid but a learning tool. if your sliding it just takes that much longer till you can get full throttle and you bleed off speed. if its coming on at track out then thats a lot better, I was scared you woulld say entry :P what kinda instructors were they? track out exp if (you have entry down with enough speed) is a hard one as your front tires are doing so much its hard not to let them spin alittle which could activate dcs. theres really no reason in my mind to have it on other than an advanced learning tool.

try it some more just for kicks and painfully get on the throttle slower to reduce wheel spin and see your laptimes. oh and rcomps/slicks would make a terribly huge difference, if dcs is coming on on track out with r-comps/slicks then theres a mistake. like theres some for the tire slipping alittle where you wont really slow down on street tires where you will slow down if dsc comes on

 

of course, autocross is a bit different

i generally started at 38f 48r on the Z1s I ran last year (hot)

i certainly would not try that on a road course!

 

I think Justintime said it well. If you are in control, the DSC is not that intrusive. I worry if DSC cuts in on corner exit.

Just an update on psi and understeer/oversteer on the track, I ran 33 psi cold front and rear for a couple of sessions at wgi. The hot psi 42 psi F and 38 psi R. You can also get TTO and TBO using this as well but control was not as easy for me. I, myself, prefer the feel of 33 psi cold F and 39 psi R cold combination, but that is rather subjective.