R56 27,000 mile used oil analysis
Auto on Sport Button guy
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 702
Likes: 2
From: Portland, OR
Exactly! and that is the whole point for my argument. Lets make an educated decision based on the needs of our engines and not make blind comparisons to what may work with other cars.
OVERDRIVE
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,201
Likes: 8
From: Norfolk, VA
I change when the OBC tells me! I currently have 179,4xx on the odometer, don't burn any oil, have had both the valve cover and the oil pan off, and there is no build up of any sort.
Change as often as you wish, its for your piece of mind. I know I sleep fine seeing what I've seen on mine.
Nik
Change as often as you wish, its for your piece of mind. I know I sleep fine seeing what I've seen on mine.
Nik
6th Gear
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,972
Likes: 3
From: South Florida
I change when the OBC tells me! I currently have 179,4xx on the odometer, don't burn any oil, have had both the valve cover and the oil pan off, and there is no build up of any sort.
Change as often as you wish, its for your piece of mind. I know I sleep fine seeing what I've seen on mine.
Nik
Change as often as you wish, its for your piece of mind. I know I sleep fine seeing what I've seen on mine.
Nik
Let's keep busting the old myths
If there are any more high milers out there and have followed the OBC oil change schedules, please feel free to chime in. This is getting goooood
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,228
Likes: 28
From: Bishop, Ca
Usually around 15k, I have seen up to 21k too though.
I'm not saying that what I'm doing is correct, I am just curious to see what/ how long it will go by just following the OBC. I've never done an analysis, but from what I've seen I'm comfortable. If it fails because of an oil problem, I'll be the first to admit it. Re-build from there, and learn from the experience.
I'm also on the original supercharger running a 15% pulley for over 150,000 miles - is my car a freak of nature? maybe!
Nik
I'm not saying that what I'm doing is correct, I am just curious to see what/ how long it will go by just following the OBC. I've never done an analysis, but from what I've seen I'm comfortable. If it fails because of an oil problem, I'll be the first to admit it. Re-build from there, and learn from the experience.
I'm also on the original supercharger running a 15% pulley for over 150,000 miles - is my car a freak of nature? maybe!
Nik
2nd Gear
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
From: Ocean County NJ
Some good info about the factory BMW HP Synth oil (same as the factory Mini oil)...
From Bobistheoilguy.com:
“here's what it looks like under the valve cover of my 1999 323i with 92,554 miles. It's been on BMW 5W-30 with OEM filters it's entire life and has been getting it's oil changed based on what the OLM dictated”
Pics:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...64#Post1196764
From Bobistheoilguy.com:
“here's what it looks like under the valve cover of my 1999 323i with 92,554 miles. It's been on BMW 5W-30 with OEM filters it's entire life and has been getting it's oil changed based on what the OLM dictated”
Pics:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...64#Post1196764
6th Gear
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,972
Likes: 3
From: South Florida
Nik, you are the man!
I plan to print that pic, blow it in size and put it in my office.
Funny, how all of a sudden the "Compulsive change oil club" has gone silent in light of the testimony and some of the links posted above.
But wait, I have a good friend of mine that is a 20+ year seasoned auto mechanic and MINI owner who has tried to spew the same unconvincing argument on me. Maybe he needs to get re-educated on synthetic oil.
Keep it coming fellas.
I plan to print that pic, blow it in size and put it in my office.
Funny, how all of a sudden the "Compulsive change oil club" has gone silent in light of the testimony and some of the links posted above.
But wait, I have a good friend of mine that is a 20+ year seasoned auto mechanic and MINI owner who has tried to spew the same unconvincing argument on me. Maybe he needs to get re-educated on synthetic oil.
Keep it coming fellas.
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,578
Likes: 5
From: Paradise
Gosh, that's a lot of miles for an R56. Oh, it's not an R56? A 2003 engine really doesn't have much bearing on what is happening with the Prince engine.
Last edited by Robin Casady; Aug 14, 2008 at 04:14 PM.
6th Gear
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,972
Likes: 3
From: South Florida
You guys really crack me up. Trying hard to come up with lots of doom and gloom (and drama) because the R56 engine has direct injection and therefore those dummies at BMW-PSA have no idea of what they are taking about anyway and all are leading us into a path of total chaos.
I am telling ya! These past 8 years have really turn this nation into fear mongering capital of the world.
Nik, you are the man!
I plan to print that pic, blow it in size and put it in my office.
Funny, how all of a sudden the "Compulsive change oil club" has gone silent in light of the testimony and some of the links posted above.
But wait, I have a good friend of mine that is a 20+ year seasoned auto mechanic and MINI owner who has tried to spew the same unconvincing argument on me. Maybe he needs to get re-educated on synthetic oil.
Keep it coming fellas.
I plan to print that pic, blow it in size and put it in my office.
Funny, how all of a sudden the "Compulsive change oil club" has gone silent in light of the testimony and some of the links posted above.
But wait, I have a good friend of mine that is a 20+ year seasoned auto mechanic and MINI owner who has tried to spew the same unconvincing argument on me. Maybe he needs to get re-educated on synthetic oil.
Keep it coming fellas.
Personally, I think 13-15K miles is too much inbetween oil changes regardless of what pics show.
I also think that the 15K mile oil change is part of manufacturers trying to keep an overall low maintenance cost.
For those of you that want to go the extra miles, great but I'm willing to spend an extra 100 bucks a year to keep fresh oil in my car.
Mark
4th Gear
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 318
Likes: 0
From: Sarasota, FL
Here is our 2nd UOA. Here is the oil change history based on the odo (the MINI is currently 10 months old):
2K DIY oil + filter Pennzoil Platinum 5W30
8K UOA
12 K DIY oil + filter PP 5W30
18 K MINI Service oil + filter OEM oil 5W30, + air filter changed
27 K UOA
27K DIY oil + filter BioSyn 0W20
The UOA were both performed by Dyson Analysis.
Odo.....................8K........................ .....27K
Oil miles...............6K ............................8K
Brand...................Penn Plat....................MINI oil
Grade..................5W30....................... ...5W30
Iron ....................31............................ ....29
Copper ..............19................................11
Tin ..................... 0...................................0
Lead ...................1.............................. .....0
Chrom ................1................................. ..0
Nickel .................1................................ ...1
Alum ..................41.............................. ....12
Titan .................. 0....................................0
Silver ..................0............................... .....0
Cal .....................2205......................... .....1986
Magnes ..............286................................. 30
Zinc ....................978........................... ......1081
Phos ...................882............................ .....984
Barium ............... 0.....................................1
Moly ...................126............................ ......167
Antim ..................0............................... .......0
Silicon .................24............................... .....7
Sodium ................8................................. .....18
Boron ..................31.............................. ......55
Potass ..................0............................... .......0
Vanad ................. 0......................................0
V40C ...................55.4........................... ......67.5
V100C .................9.6.............................. .....10.6
TAN ....................4.3........................... .........2.83
Flash ................... 305...................................340
Oxid .....................27........................... ..........24
Nit ........................12........................ .............13
KF ....................... 788...................................347
TBN .....................3.8.......................... ...........2.8
Fuel ......................1.42........................ ............1.12
Soot ......................0........................... ..............0
Glycol ....................0............................. ............0
Vis Idx ...................160............................ .........147
I think the data looks pretty good. Wear metals are decreasing. Although probably not low enough for me to throw a party (what's with the elevated Fe and Al? Do I have a coolant leak?). Viscosity looks solid. Acid neutralizing ability is pretty much depleted. Fuel dilution is a little better. I think MINI/BMW Castrol oil looks pretty good compared to Penn Plat.
I think it is clear that MINI/BMW oil is a good oil, but I don't see any evidence that it can last even half the OEM recommended OCI. Get this, the MINI computer wants me to run this oil for another 12K miles I don't think so, I've replaced the oil and my wife is enjoying better MPG with the less viscous grade BioSyn.
2K DIY oil + filter Pennzoil Platinum 5W30
8K UOA
12 K DIY oil + filter PP 5W30
18 K MINI Service oil + filter OEM oil 5W30, + air filter changed
27 K UOA
27K DIY oil + filter BioSyn 0W20
The UOA were both performed by Dyson Analysis.
Odo.....................8K........................ .....27K
Oil miles...............6K ............................8K
Brand...................Penn Plat....................MINI oil
Grade..................5W30....................... ...5W30
Iron ....................31............................ ....29
Copper ..............19................................11
Tin ..................... 0...................................0
Lead ...................1.............................. .....0
Chrom ................1................................. ..0
Nickel .................1................................ ...1
Alum ..................41.............................. ....12
Titan .................. 0....................................0
Silver ..................0............................... .....0
Cal .....................2205......................... .....1986
Magnes ..............286................................. 30
Zinc ....................978........................... ......1081
Phos ...................882............................ .....984
Barium ............... 0.....................................1
Moly ...................126............................ ......167
Antim ..................0............................... .......0
Silicon .................24............................... .....7
Sodium ................8................................. .....18
Boron ..................31.............................. ......55
Potass ..................0............................... .......0
Vanad ................. 0......................................0
V40C ...................55.4........................... ......67.5
V100C .................9.6.............................. .....10.6
TAN ....................4.3........................... .........2.83
Flash ................... 305...................................340
Oxid .....................27........................... ..........24
Nit ........................12........................ .............13
KF ....................... 788...................................347
TBN .....................3.8.......................... ...........2.8
Fuel ......................1.42........................ ............1.12
Soot ......................0........................... ..............0
Glycol ....................0............................. ............0
Vis Idx ...................160............................ .........147
I think the data looks pretty good. Wear metals are decreasing. Although probably not low enough for me to throw a party (what's with the elevated Fe and Al? Do I have a coolant leak?). Viscosity looks solid. Acid neutralizing ability is pretty much depleted. Fuel dilution is a little better. I think MINI/BMW Castrol oil looks pretty good compared to Penn Plat.
I think it is clear that MINI/BMW oil is a good oil, but I don't see any evidence that it can last even half the OEM recommended OCI. Get this, the MINI computer wants me to run this oil for another 12K miles
I don't think so, I've replaced the oil and my wife is enjoying better MPG with the less viscous grade BioSyn.
OVERDRIVE
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,201
Likes: 8
From: Norfolk, VA
I'm sorry, but oil pan pictures and peeks under the valve cover don't impress me much. Sludge largely hasn't been an issue since the advent of synthetic oils, and the oil pan and top of the cylinder head aren't exactly extreme environments for oil, so I wouldn't expect to see varnish or coking there.
I'd be more interested in a compression test, idle oil pressure readings, and a look at the bearing surfaces.
All I know is that in *my* car, the MINI oil was shot after 9k miles. Flashpoint had been reduced by almost 150 °F, the fuel dilution was up over 1.5%, the viscosity was breaking down, wear metals were up and TAN was way over TBN.
I don't consider myself a member of the "compulsive oil change club", since I'm working off of 10k intervals right now (although I'm not using the MINI oil). But I do know that it'll be a cold day in hell before I go 21k miles on the MINI oil like my OBC is telling me to, considering how the oil looked after only 9k.
I'd be more interested in a compression test, idle oil pressure readings, and a look at the bearing surfaces.
All I know is that in *my* car, the MINI oil was shot after 9k miles. Flashpoint had been reduced by almost 150 °F, the fuel dilution was up over 1.5%, the viscosity was breaking down, wear metals were up and TAN was way over TBN.
I don't consider myself a member of the "compulsive oil change club", since I'm working off of 10k intervals right now (although I'm not using the MINI oil). But I do know that it'll be a cold day in hell before I go 21k miles on the MINI oil like my OBC is telling me to, considering how the oil looked after only 9k.
Last edited by ScottRiqui; Aug 14, 2008 at 05:15 PM.
OVERDRIVE
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,201
Likes: 8
From: Norfolk, VA
All these numbers are just lovely but what is the significance of each? I am not an auto engineer nor a petroleum engineer so before I can process the information I need to know what each means. If you could please, explain or send me, and I'm sure there are others who are puzzled, to a web site which explains it all.
I'm sorry, but oil pan pictures and peeks under the valve cover don't impress me much. Sludge largely hasn't been an issue since the advent of synthetic oils, and the oil pan and top of the cylinder head aren't exactly extreme environments for oil.
I'd be more interested in a compression test, idle oil pressure readings, and a look at the bearing surfaces.
All I know is that in *my* car, the MINI oil was shot after 9k miles. Flashpoint had been reduced by almost 150 °F, the fuel dilution was up over 1.5%, the viscosity was breaking down, wear metals were up and TAN was way over TBN.
I don't consider myself a member of the "compulsive oil change club", since I'm working off of 10k intervals right now (although I'm not using the MINI oil). But I do know that it'll be a cold day in hell before I go 21k miles on the MINI oil like my OBC is telling me to, considering how the oil looked after only 9k.
I'd be more interested in a compression test, idle oil pressure readings, and a look at the bearing surfaces.
All I know is that in *my* car, the MINI oil was shot after 9k miles. Flashpoint had been reduced by almost 150 °F, the fuel dilution was up over 1.5%, the viscosity was breaking down, wear metals were up and TAN was way over TBN.
I don't consider myself a member of the "compulsive oil change club", since I'm working off of 10k intervals right now (although I'm not using the MINI oil). But I do know that it'll be a cold day in hell before I go 21k miles on the MINI oil like my OBC is telling me to, considering how the oil looked after only 9k.
Thread Starter
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3rd Gear
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 207
Likes: 1
From: Princeton, NJ
All these numbers are just lovely but what is the significance of each? I am not an auto engineer nor a petroleum engineer so before I can process the information I need to know what each means. If you could please, explain or send me, and I'm sure there are others who are puzzled, to a web site which explains it all. Thanks. I have my oil changed about every 6500 - 7000 miles. I'd never go above 9K.
Here is a website that offers some basic UOA information.
http://www.oilsols.com/oil_analysis/why_bother.html
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,228
Likes: 28
From: Bishop, Ca
Blah blah blah pfftt!!!
I know its not an r56, so what! I'm just sharing what I've seen when following the OBC change interval. My last car was a civic which used dino oil, and had an interval of 7500 miles, when I sold it w/ over 220,000 miles its compression was still fine, and burned not oil either. (I know not an R56 either )
When I got this car (in 02) I decided to follow the recommended interval too, as much as I drive I don't really like changing the oil every 3 to 6 weeks. So far its been fine, as I have said on many threads before, if/when it fails I will share w/ all.
Wasn't trying to "impress" w/ pictures, just sharing
Also stated many times before - do what makes you happy! , I could really care less if you want to change every few thousand miles, or never, doesn't matter to me.
One of these days I'll do a compression test, but as stated before, I'm not burning any oil, when changing plugs they are the perfect color, still plenty of power. No complaints!
Nik
I know its not an r56, so what! I'm just sharing what I've seen when following the OBC change interval. My last car was a civic which used dino oil, and had an interval of 7500 miles, when I sold it w/ over 220,000 miles its compression was still fine, and burned not oil either. (I know not an R56 either
)When I got this car (in 02) I decided to follow the recommended interval too, as much as I drive I don't really like changing the oil every 3 to 6 weeks. So far its been fine, as I have said on many threads before, if/when it fails I will share w/ all.
Wasn't trying to "impress" w/ pictures, just sharing
Also stated many times before - do what makes you happy! , I could really care less if you want to change every few thousand miles, or never, doesn't matter to me.
One of these days I'll do a compression test, but as stated before, I'm not burning any oil, when changing plugs they are the perfect color, still plenty of power. No complaints!
Nik
OVERDRIVE
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,201
Likes: 8
From: Norfolk, VA
Here's a simple example: Common dirt contains silicon, so many laymen interpret any non-zero silicon concentration in the analysis to mean that dirt is being ingested into the engine through the air filter. But, dirt also contains aluminum, and the aluminum & silicon usually appear in a fixed ratio. So if you've got silicon in the oil but no aluminum (or not enough aluminum to account for the amount of silicon you're seeing), then the silicon is coming from somewhere else. Depending on the engine, there may be a coating on the cylinder walls that contains silicon, or if it's a brand-new engine, there can sometimes be leftover traces of casting sand from when the block was cast. Or, there may be a silicon-containing compound in the antifreeze. A good tribologist knows what all the various parts of each manufacturer's engines are made from, and can tell from the wear metal concentrations whether it's your cylinder walls that are wearing, or the piston rings, or the bearings, or if the wear concentration is from something else entirely.
As smackboy1 mentioned, an oil analysis from Terry Dyson comes with both the raw data and a 5-10 minute voice recording that goes into great detail about what each number means, along with suggestions as to how to reduce wear in the future.
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3rd Gear
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 207
Likes: 1
From: Princeton, NJ
The other problem is that a few anecdotes from MINI's over 100K miles is meaningless.
-The sample size is small.
-The fact that the car is still running or looks clean to the naked eye is not indicative of greater or lesser engine wear.
-There is bias in the data (as the statisticians like to say). All the MINI owners "chiming in" would be the ones with few problems. The MINI owners who had engine problems and consequently got rid of their cars prior to 100K miles would not be represented.
To me "anecdotal evidence" is an oxymoron.
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