I noticed most of you are 'S' owners.

Do the same arguements apply to base Coopers?

 

To some extent, yes, because it still has direct injection. But it doesn't have the turbocharger, which is extremely hot and tough on oil, and may add to the "blow-by" issue by pressurizing the intake air.

Those more knowledgeable on the subject, feel free to correct.

 

Here's a very simple explanation. Engine oil is highly engineered product, but basically it consists of the oil base stock and an additive package. The oil molecules themselves don't usually break down in normal engine conditions, but internal engine processes effect the oil to make it less effective as a lubricant. The additive package attempts to keep the oil in "good shape" by reducing acidity, maintaining viscosity and lubricity etc..

TAN = Total Acid Number: a measure of oil acidity caused by combustion byproducts. Bigger number = more acidic

TBN = Total Base Number: a measure of the acid neutralizing ability of the oil additives. Bigger number = more basic

When the oil becomes too acidic, it can lead to more metal wear. TAN and TBN are measured using titration. So when TAN > TBN it means the oil cannot neutralize the acids and that is not good. That's why most recommend that when TAN = or > TBN, it's time to change the oil.

Flashpoint and fuel dilution are related. Flashpoint is basically the temp at which the oil vapor ignites, or flashes. The testing involves heating the oil in a vessel. The virgin oil has a specific flashpoint. Any hydrocarbon which is more volatile than the oil e.g. gasoline, which contaminates the oil will tend to lower the flashpoint. So flashpoint is an indirect measure of oil contamination by fuel. A direct way to measure fuel dilution is gas chromatograpy. Fuel dilution is important because gasoline dilutes the oil and affects its viscosity and so increases wear. Fuel dilution is more of a problem in direct injection engines such as the 1.6 L turbo engine co-developed by BMW and Peugeot because the fuel is injected directly into the combustion chamber at high pressure instead of at or before the cylinder port of a traditional engine. Some oil brand's additives are better than others allowing the oil to maintain viscosity and wear protection even with some fuel dilution.

Of course even without fuel dilution, mechanical shear can cause oil to change viscosity.

Hope that clears things up a bit. I think I got it right.

As for why BMW/MINI does what it does? I am a cynic and I know that BMW is ultimately accountable to it's shareholders. Shareholders care about profits. They know that most owners do not keep their cars for over 100K miles. They can sell cars by having a 4 year 50K warranty and a 3 year 36K "free" maintenance plan. At some OCI schedule they can maximize profits where they minimize oil change costs without increasing warranty claims. It's a good business decision; shareholders don't care about making cars that run forever.

 

So, did you do compression checks and dyno each car when you got it, and then repeat the process before you sold them? Did you ever have the oil analyzed? Did you tear the engines apart and inspect them? How did you judge their condition to decide what oil change interval is best?

"Still running" isn't really an adequate test.

I agree. A Honda or a Mercedes is not going to tell you much about a direct injected turbo MCS. I'd rather err slightly on the safe side.

My first oil analysis (second oil change 5,200 miles after the first oil change) suggested that 8,000 miles would be safe. IMO, the OBC recommendation of 19,000 would be totally, wholly, and completely insane.

 

I'm not more knowledgeable, but would point out that the MC (11:1) has a higher compression ratio than the MCS (10.5:1). So, there are still some pretty high pressures in there when the gasoline is injected.

 

I am just stating follow guidelines never hurt any on my cars at all, so not worried if you feel like changing more often go for it....but mine will follow the book

 

And I'm just saying that you are comparing Apple with oranges. Different cars, different engines, and different manufacturers.

 

It's your car, obviously, but let us know if you still feel the same way when "the book" (or the computer, in this case) starts recommending intervals of 12k, 15k, or even 20k+ miles on your MINI.

 

Just to clarify here:Here is press kit for the two versions of the R56 Prince engine: http://www.psa-peugeot-citroen.com/d...1103281940.pdf

So, I'm not convinced that the non-turbo engine will suffer from the same fuel dilution issues that the S version faces.

 

No, that's what I'm saying

Thanks for chiming in, and thank you Smackboy for the explanation.

 

Smackboy 1:

Thank-you so much for that clear and comprehensive explaination.
I am NOT an engine person, but I plan on owning Mystique for 20+ years.
I just got it, we're at 1,089 miles. I will do a 'break-in' oil change at 2,000 miles, regardless of what the computer tells me.

So what if the dealer sees oil thats 8,000 miles old rather than 10,000 miles old. My peace of mind is worth sneaking in a few extra oil changes here and there.

Thanks again for posting.

 

Old school thinking.

 

Sure i will let you know

 

No the one I saw was not the CR test. It was a dateline test they did. They said 7,500 miles on oil no sooner. I have been watching shows on cars for years and I remember that one to a T. I am not saying that I would go to 15K on an oil change myself. My Range Rover made by BMW has the same service system which shows about 15K before service is due. I have always changed it at 7,500 no matter what. My mercedes which always showed 10K before the next one always computed around 9K before the change and I think that is expectable but I wouldn't have gone over. I am just saying 3k has always and still is over kill to change the oil on a car. My Range Rover is cheap at about $110 a change, but the mercedes which used 9qts of synthetic even just the oil was over $100 and if you took it to the dealer it was $225 for an oil change.

Plus to add stop and go driving and idling are the worse things you can do to an engine. Have you seen the way NYC taxi drivers drive anyways? They just about redline the car every-time they use the gas.

 

I would also like to take great care of my engine. If we were to change the oil at 2k miles, short of changing it ourselves, where should we go and what should we ask for? I don't imagine just taking the car to Jiffy Lube would be sufficent. Unless we can take it there and ask for a certain kind of oil?

 

See you all at 300K miles by the "book". Oh by the way, how many of the compulsive-obessive oil changers here will keep their cars for that long? Raise your hands...... I see none yet...

 

I kept my 91 Escort GT for 220K w/changes of dino oil at 3k. It still had the original clutch, engine had never been apart except for the valve cover, and still drove comparably to its new self when the wife made me sell it. I am older, neater, and more responsible now, so I hope the mini will not look like a heap at 220K, and I'll get to keep it even longer. See ya at a half million miles, 19 years from now at the current rate.

 

That is my point. If you are going to change oil so often, might as well switch to dino oil and save $$$ in the process. Using dino is a good excuse to change every 3K-4K. Changing synthetic that often is simply a waste of otherwise good oil. I have better uses for the $350 or so a year that costs to change synthetic every 5K miles.

But hey, that is my opinion. To each their own.

 

I just passed 1,000 miles (in 15 weeks), got the MINI Dealer Oil and Filter and will do my 'break-in' change soon,
even though MA said the factory had already done it.

One thing that I am surprised was never mentioned here or in other Oil Changing Threads is the mixing of oil brands.

Long ago, bought a new Firebird and I had used ten changes worth of Quaker State (with never needing oil added between changes)
in 30k miles and then switched to Shell Brand Oil, car immediately began consuming oil and never stopped.

It was back when oil was cheap and was never 'excessive', Shell Dealer (who was a family friend) said I was getting better lubrication by using a little more oil.

For my Aircraft's Pratt & Whitney Engines, a special synthetic oil is used and engine manufacturer recommends nearly unlimited time between oil changes,
but airframe manufacturer trumps that with an Annual/600 hour (WOF) change interval.

Both engine and airframe mfr. have a long list of "approved" oil brands, however should you desire to 'switch' brands, you must perform two oil changes
with just a runup (no 'interval' at all) to completely flush brand A before flying with brand B.

For this reason, I felt lucky to have today's flight put me within two miles of Orlando's MINI Dealer, so I could use MINI's favorite brand.

This will be the last Oil Change I will do for three years, since I will only drive 3-4,000 miles per year between MINI provided maintenance.
_______________________________________

BTWA 'Normally Aspirated' version of almost any engine will have a higher compression ratio than one that is boosted
because the turbo- or supercharger has already done a lot of compression.

 

If you wish to have it changed more frequently, the MINI dealer will change the oil for free if it's been a year since your last dealer-performed oil change, regardless of elapsed mileage.

When the dealer performs this "annual low-mileage oil change", they won't reset the service interval counter, so the extra oil changes won't throw your schedule off for the other services (inspections, air filter changes, etcetera).

 

Or, perhaps you are being duped by new age marketing. Most of us who advocate changing more frequently than the OBC 15,000-20,000+ miles are going by oil analysis data.

Besides the mfg. recommendation, what are you basing your decision on? Are you aware that 100,000 miles is the BMW goal for a car's life? One of their spokes people said as much when talking about design decisions for the factory JCW.

 

You can see our hands?

I've had my previous car for 19 years and still have it. However, I don't put a lot of miles on a car because I commute on the internet. Don't know how long I will keep the 2007 MCS. I think it will depend on what happens with automotive technology. If they make a really hot all electric MINI with good range and performance, I might be tempted. However, how I care for a car doesn't really depend on how long I expect to keep it. F#&* the next owner is an attitude that doesn't work for me.

 

I would never take a car to Jiffy Lube. I tried it once and had a very bad experience. If you look, you will probably find lots of Jiffy Lube horror stories.

You can take it to your dealer and pay to have it done. Some dealers are outrageously expensive and others not so. Figure that the oil and filter will cost you around $40 when you compare prices. If your dealer has high prices, look for a reputable garage that works on MINIs. I found one (to replace brake pads with Bobcat 1541s) in my area by searching in the Club and Regional Forums here on NAM.

DIY isn't very hard on the MINI. It is much easier than on my Integra. The oil filter is accessible from the top, and the oil drain plug is not far from the front of the car. Some people are using top-side oil extractors like this:
http://www.mityvac.com/pages/products_fee.asp#07400
or this http://www.coopersport.com/usa/Maint...e-p-16288.html

 

Going for the 'annual' free oil/filter changes was my intent and considering my low annual miles driven, I won't have to fret about excessive miles on the oil.

All the Automotive 'factory recommended' Oil Service interval requirements that I have seen for the past forty years have included a notation to do it about twice as often for severe service. Their defination of Severe... was short trips and my MINI may be reducing my miles interval due to severe service, as tachometer reminder shows 'only' 15k but date shows 2010

 

I change when the OBC tells me! I currently have 179,4xx on the odometer, don't burn any oil, have had both the valve cover and the oil pan off, and there is no build up of any sort.

Change as often as you wish, its for your piece of mind. I know I sleep fine seeing what I've seen on mine.

Nik