my points were:

saying another car's halogens are better than the MINI HIDs does not answer the the MINI halogen versus MINI HIDs question.

HIDs can be poorly designed and there are examples where halogens provide better lighting --but the MINI halogens are pure crap so that undermines that argument for this thread.

having owned MINI halogens for a year and now MINI HIDs for a week, i can see much better driving at night.

 

So, halogens aren't different from car to car?

Brighter, most likely. Superior? I suspect you are falling into the HID trap of clearly seeing what is close at hand causing you to think you have better visibility.

I was clear about mine -- driving with low beams on a dark road.

There is much more to that article than the possibility of poor design. It explains why the extra brightness of HIDs is not really a good thing, and why. The MINI HIDs are definitely bright. They do constrict your pupils, making it harder to see outside their range.

Well, it seems that russr doesn't agree with you on that point. I suspect you wouldn't like the halogens on my integra. They aren't particularly bright.

 

What I've been saying is that the MINI HIDs have some distinct disadvantages. That they have less visibility than a 1990 Integra's halogens is a sever disadvantage, IMO. If the MINI's halogens are poor, upgrade bulbs are available. You can also add driving lights, if needed. There is no way to fix the low beam problem with MINI HIDs.

 

just restricting the comparison to the 2 lighting options on the R56: the halogens are pure crap and the HIDs illuminate more of the road ahead.

 

key_lime_hamster, I've driven quite a bit now with the R56 halogen lights (loaner for over a week) and I don't understand why you think they are crap. Sure they might not be as good as a halogen headlight in a projector lens, but I disagree that they are pure crap. They are definitely not as bright as the HIDs, but due to all the reasons quote above by me and Robin, they do not decrease visibility the way the Xenon HIDs do.

Here's a practical example that I hope makes clear what I'm getting at. Let 's say we have your MINI halogens and they illuminate 150 feet ahead of you, but your visibility is 220 (due to scatter past cutoff and dilated pupils). Now let's say you take a Xenon HID low beam and it illuminates 180 feet and those 180 feet are much more brightly illuminated. Your visibility is going to be like 200 feet because it's much harder to see beyond the 180 feet. So even though you got 30 feet more illuminated by the HID, your visibility went down because you weren't able to see as much past cutoff as with the halogen. Now upgrade your halogens so you can get 180 illuminated, your visilibility goes up to 250.

 

i completely agree with the cutoff of the HIDs, but compared to other cars with cutoffs which is more abrupt and more noticeable, i still feel that the HIDs are a lighting advantage over the OEM halogens.

i've had better lighting from my C3 corvette on the same country roads than my 07 MCS.

 

This all sounds good, but it is supposition and speculation. Any test data? Last night, I went out to a lonely dark parking lot off a country road, with the MIni with HIDs and my son took our Expedition with halogens. Lo and behold, the HIDs not only lit up the area much brighter, but also further than the halogens. Moreover, the trees well beyond the visual cut-off of the HID (identified by the light/shadow on the ground) were much more visible than with the halogens, even though the halogen illumination could be seen on those trees. The halogens did illuminate higher up the trees, but beyond what you would have to worry about driving. Moreover, the areas illuminated by the halogens had much less contrast. So, I maintain that lighting is better overall with the HIDs. The fact that they are so bright gives the appearance of less visibility outside it's main lighting area. I also found sililar results with my son's Saturn with halogens. No, I didn't take actual measurements.

 

the other minor point is:

what's easier for a MINI owner to do? retrofit halogen projector beams or retrofit the factory HIDs?

my sense at the time was that i was looking at $2000 for a well done OEM retrofit. given that it is only a $500 option.....it made more sense to go with HIDs.

 

retrofitting halogens on hids is not easy or cheap either. LynneEl, I hear your points, but to be fair you should compare it to an R56 with halogens. the suvs are higher off the ground which complicates the comparison a bit.

 

From a strictly federal legal stand, HID headlamps require self-leveling and a headlamp washing system. So, any aftermarket system that does not contain leveling and washing systems is illegal.

You don't honestly think that BMW/MINI would add those systems on if they weren't required to do so. Do ya?

 

I think you are stuck with whichever system you choose. Retrofitting halogens on a factory HID system isn't really cheap and easy.

It only makes sense if it is what you want. If I were to do it over again, I wouldn't choose Xenons, even if it cost $500 more for halogens.

 

I don't think there is a washer requirement... Acuras have HIDs and I don't think any of them have headlight washers

 

Not really, because the lights must be aimed properly. But, aside from that, I also compared the Mini HIDs with the halogens on my son's Saturn LS. Moreover, if anything, the higher lamp position should have given the SUV the advantage.

 

Stating it as fact doesn't make it so. You may think that. Obviously russr doesn't. My experience leads me to think I would be more likely to agree with russr.

 

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree here. I'm pretty sure the OP has gotten both are points and it's up to him to make the decision. Unlike Robin, I would still get the Xenons had I to do it over again. I just wish the leveling motors were like the BMWs which changed with slope and turning.

 

I don't believe the US version of the Mazda 3, anyway, has automatic headlight levelers-they are manual: http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/disp...ehicleCode=M3H

I think the auto level feature is something required in euro, kinda like the bogus-reading speedometers..

 

I know that we've kinda beat this topic to death, but I should mention that I've been in an R56 Cooper with halogens for a week now (long story). Anyway, the range of the headlights is the same or better than that of Xenons. Visibility is greater as the cutoff is less drastic so I can see better past it. I wouldn't even consider putting a better bulb in if I had those.

 

I'm always amazed when this topic shows up and people actually argue HID vs. Halogen. In all of the "tests" I've read in this thread the one factor that is being left out is simply the fact we are human. Being human comes with a few flaws and one of those flaws is night vision. We all have varying ability when it comes to seeing in the dark. Personally I have fairly decent night vision and actually prefer driving at night vs. being blinded by the sun during the day.

The best advise is to drive both and pick the one that allows you to see more. Pay whatever it costs to get that option as it will be well worth the money as a safety feature. Being able to actually see when you drive is the important part. HIDs vs. Halogen is not. Now go motor.

 

Ok, I have the Halogens. What is a replacement bulb that will give me a better light. I would just like more light, not colored.

A couple of years ago I bought some Phillips bulbs out of Canada (for my truck) and you had to grind off a little "tit" to make them fit. They are pretty nice, but do not see them on the internet.

Any ideas and thoughts on replacements.

Thanks

 

Check out that link I posted earlier to Daniel Stern Lighting's site.

 

Despite all the back-and-forth in this thread, I think it all boils down to personal preference and individual visual perception. I've driven cars with HID and halogen, and I think that the HID headlights are much better. I also believe that there's no "right" answer to this question. My suggestion for anyone considering a MINI who's concerned about this choice would be to arrange back-to-back test drives at night, and decide for themselves.
Just one other note. HID headlights can be adjusted if they're aimed too low, just like halogens can be adjusted. My 02 BMW came with HID lights that had a very low cutoff. After the dealer adjusted them the performance was much improved. Anyone who feels that the HID illuminated path is too low should have the dealer check the vertical alignment and have it adjusted if too low.