R56 Buyer Beware (long)
Thread Starter
|
4th Gear
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 474
Likes: 3
From: Maryland
Buyer Beware (long)
The following commentary is true. I am posting this not to gain sympathy, or support, but to alert others who may be unknowingly affected by similar circumstances.
First, some history...If you are familiar with Gore v. BMW, skip the two next paragraphs, if not, read on.
In 1996, a Kentucky doctor named Gore, purchased a new BMW 5 series. Nine months after purchase, Dr. Gore had the vehicle detailed, and during this detailing, he was advised by the detailing shop that the entire vehicle had been painted. Needless to say, Dr. Gore was incensed, as this had not been disclosed to him at the time of delivery. Dr. Gore filed suit against BMW of North America, and the selling dealer, for fraud. During trial, it was revealed that BMW had re-painted Dr. Gore's vehicle, due to acid rain damage. Dr. Gore was seeking compensatory damages in the amount of $4,000.00, for diminished value, and punitive damages based on the amount of unjust enrichment that BMW NA had received from other non-disclosure sales of vehicles.
Dr. Gore was awarded $4,000 in compensatory damages, and $10,000,000.00 in punitive damages. BMW appealed, and the case went all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. The Supreme Court reversed the punitive damage award, and remanded the case back to State Court. The Kentucky Supreme Court lowered the punitive damage award to $2,000,000.00. BMW also agreed to, in the future, disclose ANY damage, no matter how minor, to prospective buyers of their vehicles...It appears that BMW did not learn their lesson.
In April of 2007, I factory ordered a heavily optioned MINI Cooper S, from BMW/MINI of Towson, Md. I have had a long relationship with this dealer, leasing many BMW's from them. M.S.R.P. On my Cooper S was $34,500.00, which was also the agreed upon purchase price.
In May of 2007, I took delivery of the Cooper S, and was not advised of any latent defects, or damage that occurred prior to my taking delivery.
As much as I loved the MINI, my personal circumstances changed, and in October, I was in need of a larger vehicle. In November of 2007, I ordered a BMW 335xi, from BMW of Towson. When I asked my salesman if I should trade the MINI, he advised me that I would probably get the best price for the MINI by either selling it myself, or taking it to CarMax. Not wanting to deal with selling it myself, I took the MINI to CarMax.
CarMax appraised the MINI, and I commented to the appraiser that the vehicle was perfect, with no damage, dings, or other defects. The CarMax appraiser then asked me why the right rear quarter panel had been painted. I was shocked at this statement, and I advised him that I had no idea. He then proceeded to show me a tape line on the passenger side door jamb that ran from top, to bottom. He also demonstrated the texture difference between the door jamb paint, and the paint on the rear quarter panel.
The MINI, with 8,200 miles, was appraised at $18,500.00, a far cry from the $34,500.00 that I had paid just six months ago. The appraiser would not tell me how much the re-painted rear quarter panel had diminished the value, but because I could not detail the extent of the undisclosed damage, I suspect that the diminished value was substantial.
Now furious, I drove directly to BMW/MINI of Towson, for some answers. I approached the sales manager, and my salesman, and explained the situation. They were both stunned, and claimed that they knew nothing about any prior damage to the vehicle. The sales manager took the vehicle to the shop, to show the service manager.
Upon his return, he stated that their inspection of the rear quarter panel was inconclusive, but that he would ask Marc Cohen, the owner's son, and General Manager of the dealership, to contact MINI USA.
Now suspicious, I took the MINI to two different body shops. Both measured the paint thickness of each panel on the car. Every panel except the right rear quarter panel measured 6mm of paint. The right rear quarter panel measured 9 mm of paint. Both shops concluded that the right rear quarter panel had been painted, prior to delivery. The tell tale tape line in the door jamb was additional evidence of this. Both shops advised me that they would testify under oath, of their findings.
I called the MINI sales manager and advised him of my findings. I also demanded that MINI, USA repurchase the vehicle, for full price paid, less a reasonable amount for mileage. I reminded him that in the State of Maryland, it is illegal for a new car dealer to sell a vehicle that has sustained body or paint damage, without disclosing this damage to the buyer.
I believe that the selling dealer (BMW/MINI of Towson) was unaware of this damage. It is my belief that the damage occurred at either the Factory, the port of exit, or the port of entry. In light of Gore v. BMW, it was MINI USA's responsibility to inform the dealer that this vehicle had been damaged, and repaired.
I have retained attorneys to file suit against MINI USA, BMW USA, and BMW/MINI of Towson, for Fraud, Non-disclosure, Diminished value, and Conspiracy.
I would strongly advise anyone considering the purchase of a new MINI Cooper, to reconsider their purchase. Failing this, I would strongly advise anyone purchasing a new MINI Cooper to have the vehicle inspected by a competent third party, PRIOR to taking delivery. Finally, if you have already purchased a new MINI Cooper, I would strongly advise you to take the vehicle to a competent body shop, and have the vehicle inspected for any undisclosed body damage, or repair.
I would also encourage anyone still considering purchasing a vehicle from BMW/MINI of Towson, Md., to consider purchasing from another dealer, as this dealer seems only to be interested in taking your money, and taking no responsibility for defects in the products that they sell. The owner of the dealership, Louis Cohen, advised me that MINI had no record of the repair. This is troubling, as there be many more MINI's that have undisclosed pre-delivery damage. He also advised me that there was nothing that he could do...excellent customer service.
I have registered the domain name MiniUsaLies.com, to document this incident. If any MINI owner finds that his/her vehicle has undisclosed damage, you are encouraged to submit details of your vehicle to fraud@miniusalies.com.
My attorneys have advised me that if there are other cases of undisclosed damage, these cases may be eligible for certification of class action status.
Finally, to address the concerns of those (including myself) who feel that we are too litigious in the United States, I offer the following: I am only interested in receiving compensatory damages, in the form of a re-purchase by MINI USA of this vehicle. Any and all punitive damages that I may be awarded will be donated to charity. My intent is to teach MINI USA, and BMW USA a lesson...a lesson that they should have learned in 1997.
First, some history...If you are familiar with Gore v. BMW, skip the two next paragraphs, if not, read on.
In 1996, a Kentucky doctor named Gore, purchased a new BMW 5 series. Nine months after purchase, Dr. Gore had the vehicle detailed, and during this detailing, he was advised by the detailing shop that the entire vehicle had been painted. Needless to say, Dr. Gore was incensed, as this had not been disclosed to him at the time of delivery. Dr. Gore filed suit against BMW of North America, and the selling dealer, for fraud. During trial, it was revealed that BMW had re-painted Dr. Gore's vehicle, due to acid rain damage. Dr. Gore was seeking compensatory damages in the amount of $4,000.00, for diminished value, and punitive damages based on the amount of unjust enrichment that BMW NA had received from other non-disclosure sales of vehicles.
Dr. Gore was awarded $4,000 in compensatory damages, and $10,000,000.00 in punitive damages. BMW appealed, and the case went all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. The Supreme Court reversed the punitive damage award, and remanded the case back to State Court. The Kentucky Supreme Court lowered the punitive damage award to $2,000,000.00. BMW also agreed to, in the future, disclose ANY damage, no matter how minor, to prospective buyers of their vehicles...It appears that BMW did not learn their lesson.
In April of 2007, I factory ordered a heavily optioned MINI Cooper S, from BMW/MINI of Towson, Md. I have had a long relationship with this dealer, leasing many BMW's from them. M.S.R.P. On my Cooper S was $34,500.00, which was also the agreed upon purchase price.
In May of 2007, I took delivery of the Cooper S, and was not advised of any latent defects, or damage that occurred prior to my taking delivery.
As much as I loved the MINI, my personal circumstances changed, and in October, I was in need of a larger vehicle. In November of 2007, I ordered a BMW 335xi, from BMW of Towson. When I asked my salesman if I should trade the MINI, he advised me that I would probably get the best price for the MINI by either selling it myself, or taking it to CarMax. Not wanting to deal with selling it myself, I took the MINI to CarMax.
CarMax appraised the MINI, and I commented to the appraiser that the vehicle was perfect, with no damage, dings, or other defects. The CarMax appraiser then asked me why the right rear quarter panel had been painted. I was shocked at this statement, and I advised him that I had no idea. He then proceeded to show me a tape line on the passenger side door jamb that ran from top, to bottom. He also demonstrated the texture difference between the door jamb paint, and the paint on the rear quarter panel.
The MINI, with 8,200 miles, was appraised at $18,500.00, a far cry from the $34,500.00 that I had paid just six months ago. The appraiser would not tell me how much the re-painted rear quarter panel had diminished the value, but because I could not detail the extent of the undisclosed damage, I suspect that the diminished value was substantial.
Now furious, I drove directly to BMW/MINI of Towson, for some answers. I approached the sales manager, and my salesman, and explained the situation. They were both stunned, and claimed that they knew nothing about any prior damage to the vehicle. The sales manager took the vehicle to the shop, to show the service manager.
Upon his return, he stated that their inspection of the rear quarter panel was inconclusive, but that he would ask Marc Cohen, the owner's son, and General Manager of the dealership, to contact MINI USA.
Now suspicious, I took the MINI to two different body shops. Both measured the paint thickness of each panel on the car. Every panel except the right rear quarter panel measured 6mm of paint. The right rear quarter panel measured 9 mm of paint. Both shops concluded that the right rear quarter panel had been painted, prior to delivery. The tell tale tape line in the door jamb was additional evidence of this. Both shops advised me that they would testify under oath, of their findings.
I called the MINI sales manager and advised him of my findings. I also demanded that MINI, USA repurchase the vehicle, for full price paid, less a reasonable amount for mileage. I reminded him that in the State of Maryland, it is illegal for a new car dealer to sell a vehicle that has sustained body or paint damage, without disclosing this damage to the buyer.
I believe that the selling dealer (BMW/MINI of Towson) was unaware of this damage. It is my belief that the damage occurred at either the Factory, the port of exit, or the port of entry. In light of Gore v. BMW, it was MINI USA's responsibility to inform the dealer that this vehicle had been damaged, and repaired.
I have retained attorneys to file suit against MINI USA, BMW USA, and BMW/MINI of Towson, for Fraud, Non-disclosure, Diminished value, and Conspiracy.
I would strongly advise anyone considering the purchase of a new MINI Cooper, to reconsider their purchase. Failing this, I would strongly advise anyone purchasing a new MINI Cooper to have the vehicle inspected by a competent third party, PRIOR to taking delivery. Finally, if you have already purchased a new MINI Cooper, I would strongly advise you to take the vehicle to a competent body shop, and have the vehicle inspected for any undisclosed body damage, or repair.
I would also encourage anyone still considering purchasing a vehicle from BMW/MINI of Towson, Md., to consider purchasing from another dealer, as this dealer seems only to be interested in taking your money, and taking no responsibility for defects in the products that they sell. The owner of the dealership, Louis Cohen, advised me that MINI had no record of the repair. This is troubling, as there be many more MINI's that have undisclosed pre-delivery damage. He also advised me that there was nothing that he could do...excellent customer service.
I have registered the domain name MiniUsaLies.com, to document this incident. If any MINI owner finds that his/her vehicle has undisclosed damage, you are encouraged to submit details of your vehicle to fraud@miniusalies.com.
My attorneys have advised me that if there are other cases of undisclosed damage, these cases may be eligible for certification of class action status.
Finally, to address the concerns of those (including myself) who feel that we are too litigious in the United States, I offer the following: I am only interested in receiving compensatory damages, in the form of a re-purchase by MINI USA of this vehicle. Any and all punitive damages that I may be awarded will be donated to charity. My intent is to teach MINI USA, and BMW USA a lesson...a lesson that they should have learned in 1997.
Last edited by Coffeeman; Dec 12, 2007 at 08:13 PM.
3rd Gear
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 275
Likes: 2
From: So. Calif.
I don't understand why you're blaming the selling dealer. It seems they fullfilled their agreements with BMW and with you when they bought the car from BMW and then sold it to you - quite an ordinary transaction.
Perhaps you're suggesting that they don't believe you when you assert that the car was sold to you already damaged. If so, that would make me angry too. But it appears that they had no reason to suspect prior damage and were "tricked", just as you were, as to the car's condition. They should be joining you against BMW.
I wouldn't expect the dealer to buy back your car or pay you anything relating to its diminished value unless they were the ones who knew and should have disclosed - not the case, evidently.
Unless there's more to this than we now know, I don't think the dealer deserves to have his reputation "tarnished" here.
Perhaps you're suggesting that they don't believe you when you assert that the car was sold to you already damaged. If so, that would make me angry too. But it appears that they had no reason to suspect prior damage and were "tricked", just as you were, as to the car's condition. They should be joining you against BMW.
I wouldn't expect the dealer to buy back your car or pay you anything relating to its diminished value unless they were the ones who knew and should have disclosed - not the case, evidently.
Unless there's more to this than we now know, I don't think the dealer deserves to have his reputation "tarnished" here.
Thread Starter
|
4th Gear
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 474
Likes: 3
From: Maryland
The contract is with the dealer, not the manufacturer. If I were the dealer, I would be furious with MINI, for allowing a repaired vehicle to be sold without disclosure. The fact that the dealer does not seem too concerned about this is troubling, at best. A good dealer goes to bat for his/her customer. When we get to discovery, we will see if the dealer was truly in the dark about this.
I don't understand why you're blaming the selling dealer. It seems they fullfilled their agreements with BMW and with you when they bought the car from BMW and then sold it to you - quite an ordinary transaction.
Perhaps you're suggesting that they don't believe you when you assert that the car was sold to you already damaged. If so, that would make me angry too. But it appears that they had no reason to suspect prior damage and were "tricked", just as you were, as to the car's condition. They should be joining you against BMW.
I wouldn't expect the dealer to buy back your car or pay you anything relating to its diminished value unless they were the ones who knew and should have disclosed - not the case, evidently.
Unless there's more to this than we now know, I don't think the dealer deserves to have his reputation "tarnished" here.
Perhaps you're suggesting that they don't believe you when you assert that the car was sold to you already damaged. If so, that would make me angry too. But it appears that they had no reason to suspect prior damage and were "tricked", just as you were, as to the car's condition. They should be joining you against BMW.
I wouldn't expect the dealer to buy back your car or pay you anything relating to its diminished value unless they were the ones who knew and should have disclosed - not the case, evidently.
Unless there's more to this than we now know, I don't think the dealer deserves to have his reputation "tarnished" here.
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,821
Likes: 1
From: Mililani,Hawaii
Most likely got re-painted at the VPC without the dealership's knowledge. Did your MINI have any unexpected delays at the VPC?
Last edited by MotorMouth; Dec 12, 2007 at 02:58 PM.
Trending Topics
3rd Gear
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 209
Likes: 0
From: Baton Rouge, LA
Just sell it individually and disclose the repaint to the buyer. Then subtract the selling price from the high blue book value and there you have your small claims case. Of course you'd also sue for time spent preparing your case and running around to dealers/shops for the inspections. Besides that I don't think you have much of a case. It's not the dealer's fault if they didn't know about it. Proving they knew about it is almost impossible.
3rd Gear
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 209
Likes: 0
From: Baton Rouge, LA
Well, after thinking about it for a few minutes I'd like to add some more. I think realistically you're due $3-8,000 depending upon selling price and what you're out from time. However, you never know- like you said it could be a lot more. If I were you, and I know this sounds ridiculous, I'd call that national lawyer show Handel On The Law http://www.handelonthelaw.com/ . A) because he would be able to tell you unbiasedly what kind of case you have for free from a qualified and experienced lawyer; B) he'd be able to advise you on what the next step should be; C) we'd all be able to listen in! (and what a damned entertaining radio show that is!)
Finally I think you're going a little overboard on saying nobody should buy a mini or from that dealer. I seriously doubt this is a very common practice and it probably happens just as frequently with other car manufacturers as it does with Mini, BMW, etc.
Finally I think you're going a little overboard on saying nobody should buy a mini or from that dealer. I seriously doubt this is a very common practice and it probably happens just as frequently with other car manufacturers as it does with Mini, BMW, etc.
2nd Gear
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
I've had a tour of the west coast VPC (as I'm sure others here have), and of course it is possible for a vehicle to sustain damage in transit...the tour took us through the expert body shop, where there were a handful of cars in the process of being repaired. BMW/Mini is very conscientious and forthcoming regarding disclosure of damage, most likely because of the lawsuit you referenced. Based on this, and the tape mark which points to poor paintwork well below the caliber of the VPC, in my opinion your "belief that the damage occurred at either the Factory, the port of exit, or the port of entry" is incorrect.
Much more likely a minor incident at the dealership...or perhaps after you bought it somebody (friend, family member) had some minor work done without your knowledge...
I also believe your statement "because I could not detail the extent of the undisclosed damage, I suspect that the diminished value was substantial" is an inaccurate supposition. Wholesale value of a 2007 MCS with 8,200 miles is anywhere from $17-22k, depending on options and color. Their offer was fair.
In my opinion, you are going about this situation the wrong way. If BMW/Mini has no record of damage at the VPC, and there is no possible way the car could have been repaired in your possession, I would lean on the dealer to make it right, especially since you have demonstrated that you are a good customer. Finally, if you are entering into a lawsuit, it's a very bad idea to be making statements on a public forum about the case.
Much more likely a minor incident at the dealership...or perhaps after you bought it somebody (friend, family member) had some minor work done without your knowledge...
I also believe your statement "because I could not detail the extent of the undisclosed damage, I suspect that the diminished value was substantial" is an inaccurate supposition. Wholesale value of a 2007 MCS with 8,200 miles is anywhere from $17-22k, depending on options and color. Their offer was fair.
In my opinion, you are going about this situation the wrong way. If BMW/Mini has no record of damage at the VPC, and there is no possible way the car could have been repaired in your possession, I would lean on the dealer to make it right, especially since you have demonstrated that you are a good customer. Finally, if you are entering into a lawsuit, it's a very bad idea to be making statements on a public forum about the case.
6th Gear
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,442
Likes: 0
From: Sacramento, Ca
^^ i dont know his situation, but i highly doubt a family member damaged the car, then had it repainted without him knowing.
this is an interesting case. I hope you get some sort of retribution for all the troubles as i would be furious if i found out my car was damaged and then fixed without my knowledge.
this is an interesting case. I hope you get some sort of retribution for all the troubles as i would be furious if i found out my car was damaged and then fixed without my knowledge.
Thread Starter
|
4th Gear
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 474
Likes: 3
From: Maryland
No, the 335xi is due in New York on Monday, but I canceled the order today. I'm not dealing with a manufacturer, or a dealer who would pull this type of stunt. I'll keep the MINI for evidence, for when we go to trial, and probably buy a Volvo. I'm done with BMW
Thread Starter
|
4th Gear
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 474
Likes: 3
From: Maryland
Just sell it individually and disclose the repaint to the buyer. Then subtract the selling price from the high blue book value and there you have your small claims case. Of course you'd also sue for time spent preparing your case and running around to dealers/shops for the inspections. Besides that I don't think you have much of a case. It's not the dealer's fault if they didn't know about it. Proving they knew about it is almost impossible.
2nd Gear
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Edit: I'm curious if you've done a CarFax on your car. CarFax reports are generally useless, but typically they do show when the car arrives in the country, when your dealer takes possession, and when it was registered to you. You might be able to see a gap in the timeline when bodywork may have taken place...and there may even be specific indication that it had repair done.
Last edited by Alan Smithee; Dec 12, 2007 at 04:11 PM.
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,881
Likes: 6
Thanks for sharing Coffeeman. My Mini was repaired at the port. It was fully disclosed what was done in writing to the MA at my dealer. My car was delayed and of course Mini USA couldn't give me a reason. But a call to my MA, he contacted the port, and later I had a faxed document explaining what the repair was. Which turned out to be a 0-1" scratch on the drivers door. I was furious just like you. I told my MA the deal would be off if I can see any difference in the paint. A couple days before my dealer called to have me pick up the car I dropped by un-announced, on the day the trucking company was due to deliver. I was able to inspect the car prior to the dealer prep and the repair was undetectable.
I don't mind the repair since BMW is who repaired it and documented it.
I don't sell cars so resale doesn't mean anything to me.
I don't mind the repair since BMW is who repaired it and documented it.
I don't sell cars so resale doesn't mean anything to me.
The following commentary is true. I am posting this not to gain sympathy, or support, but to alert others who may be unknowingly affected by similar circumstances.
First, some history...If you are familiar with Gore v. BMW, skip the two next paragraphs, if not, read on.
In 1996, a Kentucky doctor named Gore, purchased a new BMW 5 series. Nine months after purchase, Dr. Gore had the vehicle detailed, and during this detailing, he was advised by the detailing shop that the entire vehicle had been painted. Needless to say, Dr. Gore was incensed, as this had not been disclosed to him at the time of delivery. Dr. Gore filed suit against BMW of North America, and the selling dealer, for fraud. During trial, it was revealed that BMW had re-painted Dr. Gore's vehicle, due to acid rain damage. Dr. Gore was seeking compensatory damages in the amount of $4,000.00, for diminished value, and punitive damages based on the amount of unjust enrichment that BMW NA had received from other non-disclosure sales of vehicles.
Dr. Gore was awarded $4,000 in compensatory damages, and $10,000,000.00 in punitive damages. BMW appealed, and the case went all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. The Supreme Court reversed the punitive damage award, and remanded the case back to State Court. The Kentucky Supreme Court lowered the punitive damage award to $2,000,000.00. BMW also agreed to, in the future, disclose ANY damage, no matter how minor, to prospective buyers of their vehicles...It appears that BMW did not learn their lesson.
In April of 2007, I factory ordered a heavily optioned MINI Cooper S, from BMW/MINI of Towson, Md. I have had a long relationship with this dealer, leasing many BMW's from them. M.S.R.P. On my Cooper S was $34,500.00, which was also the agreed upon purchase price.
In May of 2007, I took delivery of the Cooper S, and was not advised of any latent defects, or damage that occurred prior to my taking delivery.
As much as I loved the MINI, my personal circumstances changed, and in October, I was in need of a larger vehicle. In November of 2007, I ordered a BMW 335xi, from BMW of Towson. When I asked my salesman if I should trade the MINI, he advised me that I would probably get the best price for the MINI by either selling it myself, or taking it to CarMax. Not wanting to deal with selling it myself, I took the MINI to CarMax.
CarMax appraised the MINI, and I commented to the appraiser that the vehicle was perfect, with no damage, dings, or other defects. The CarMax appraiser then asked me why the right rear quarter panel had been painted. I was shocked at this statement, and I advised him that I had no idea. He then proceeded to show me a tape line on the passenger side door jamb that ran from top, to bottom. He also demonstrated the texture difference between the door jamb paint, and the paint on the rear quarter panel.
The MINI, with 8,200 miles, was appraised at $18,500.00, a far cry from the $34,500.00 that I had paid just six months ago. The appraiser would not tell me how much the re-painted rear quarter panel had diminished the value, but because I could not detail the extent of the undisclosed damage, I suspect that the diminished value was substantial.
Now furious, I drove directly to BMW/MINI of Towson, for some answers. I approached the sales manager, and my salesman, and explained the situation. They were both stunned, and claimed that they knew nothing about any prior damage to the vehicle. The sales manager took the vehicle to the shop, to show the service manager.
Upon his return, he stated that their inspection of the rear quarter panel was inconclusive, but that he would ask Marc Cohen, the owner's son, and General Manager of the dealership, to contact MINI USA.
Now suspicious, I took the MINI to two different body shops. Both measured the paint thickness of each panel on the car. Every panel except the right rear quarter panel measured 6mm of paint. The right rear quarter panel measured 9 mm of paint. Both shops concluded that the right rear quarter panel had been painted, prior to delivery. The tell tale tape line in the door jamb was additional evidence of this. Both shops advised me that they would testify under oath, of their findings.
I called the MINI sales manager and advised him of my findings. I also demanded that MINI, USA repurchase the vehicle, for full price paid, less a reasonable amount for mileage. I reminded him that in the State of Maryland, it is illegal for a new car dealer to sell a vehicle that has sustained body or paint damage, without disclosing this damage to the buyer.
I believe that the selling dealer (BMW/MINI of Towson) was unaware of this damage. It is my belief that the damage occurred at either the Factory, the port of exit, or the port of entry. In light of Gore v. BMW, it was MINI USA's responsibility to inform the dealer that this vehicle had been damaged, and repaired.
I have retained attorneys to file suit against MINI USA, BMW USA, and BMW/MINI of Towson, for Fraud, Non-disclosure, Diminished value, and Conspiracy.
I would strongly advise anyone considering the purchase of a new MINI Cooper, to reconsider their purchase. Failing this, I would strongly advise anyone purchasing a new MINI Cooper to have the vehicle inspected by a competent third party, PRIOR to taking delivery. Finally, if you have already purchased a new MINI Cooper, I would strongly advise you to take the vehicle to a competent body shop, and have the vehicle inspected for any undisclosed body damage, or repair.
I would also encourage anyone still considering purchasing a vehicle from BMW/MINI of Towson, Md., to consider purchasing from another dealer, as this dealer seems only to be interested in taking your money, and taking no responsibility for defects in the products that they sell. The owner of the dealership, Louis Cohen, advised me that MINI had no record of the repair. This is troubling, as there be many more MINI's that have undisclosed pre-delivery damage. He also advised me that there was nothing that he could do...excellent customer service.
I have registered the domain name MiniUsaLies.com, to document this incident. If any MINI owner finds that his/her vehicle has undisclosed damage, you are encouraged to submit details of your vehicle to fraud@miniusalies.com.
My attorneys have advised me that if there are other cases of undisclosed damage, these cases may be eligible for certification of class action status.
Finally, to address the concerns of those (including myself) who feel that we are too litigious in the United States, I offer the following: I am only interested in receiving compensatory damages, in the form of a re-purchase by MINI USA of this vehicle. Any and all punitive damages that I may be awarded will be donated to charity. My intent is to teach MINI USA, and BMW USA a lesson...a lesson that they should have learned in 1997.
As a postscript, I've have been a BMW owner/customer since 1971. For thirty-six years, I have recommended the BMW brand to my friends and business associates. I always thought of BMW as a corporation that was above reproach. I was wrong. From this point, I will tarnish BMW USA's reputation, as well as the selling dealer's reputation, at every available opportunity.
First, some history...If you are familiar with Gore v. BMW, skip the two next paragraphs, if not, read on.
In 1996, a Kentucky doctor named Gore, purchased a new BMW 5 series. Nine months after purchase, Dr. Gore had the vehicle detailed, and during this detailing, he was advised by the detailing shop that the entire vehicle had been painted. Needless to say, Dr. Gore was incensed, as this had not been disclosed to him at the time of delivery. Dr. Gore filed suit against BMW of North America, and the selling dealer, for fraud. During trial, it was revealed that BMW had re-painted Dr. Gore's vehicle, due to acid rain damage. Dr. Gore was seeking compensatory damages in the amount of $4,000.00, for diminished value, and punitive damages based on the amount of unjust enrichment that BMW NA had received from other non-disclosure sales of vehicles.
Dr. Gore was awarded $4,000 in compensatory damages, and $10,000,000.00 in punitive damages. BMW appealed, and the case went all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. The Supreme Court reversed the punitive damage award, and remanded the case back to State Court. The Kentucky Supreme Court lowered the punitive damage award to $2,000,000.00. BMW also agreed to, in the future, disclose ANY damage, no matter how minor, to prospective buyers of their vehicles...It appears that BMW did not learn their lesson.
In April of 2007, I factory ordered a heavily optioned MINI Cooper S, from BMW/MINI of Towson, Md. I have had a long relationship with this dealer, leasing many BMW's from them. M.S.R.P. On my Cooper S was $34,500.00, which was also the agreed upon purchase price.
In May of 2007, I took delivery of the Cooper S, and was not advised of any latent defects, or damage that occurred prior to my taking delivery.
As much as I loved the MINI, my personal circumstances changed, and in October, I was in need of a larger vehicle. In November of 2007, I ordered a BMW 335xi, from BMW of Towson. When I asked my salesman if I should trade the MINI, he advised me that I would probably get the best price for the MINI by either selling it myself, or taking it to CarMax. Not wanting to deal with selling it myself, I took the MINI to CarMax.
CarMax appraised the MINI, and I commented to the appraiser that the vehicle was perfect, with no damage, dings, or other defects. The CarMax appraiser then asked me why the right rear quarter panel had been painted. I was shocked at this statement, and I advised him that I had no idea. He then proceeded to show me a tape line on the passenger side door jamb that ran from top, to bottom. He also demonstrated the texture difference between the door jamb paint, and the paint on the rear quarter panel.
The MINI, with 8,200 miles, was appraised at $18,500.00, a far cry from the $34,500.00 that I had paid just six months ago. The appraiser would not tell me how much the re-painted rear quarter panel had diminished the value, but because I could not detail the extent of the undisclosed damage, I suspect that the diminished value was substantial.
Now furious, I drove directly to BMW/MINI of Towson, for some answers. I approached the sales manager, and my salesman, and explained the situation. They were both stunned, and claimed that they knew nothing about any prior damage to the vehicle. The sales manager took the vehicle to the shop, to show the service manager.
Upon his return, he stated that their inspection of the rear quarter panel was inconclusive, but that he would ask Marc Cohen, the owner's son, and General Manager of the dealership, to contact MINI USA.
Now suspicious, I took the MINI to two different body shops. Both measured the paint thickness of each panel on the car. Every panel except the right rear quarter panel measured 6mm of paint. The right rear quarter panel measured 9 mm of paint. Both shops concluded that the right rear quarter panel had been painted, prior to delivery. The tell tale tape line in the door jamb was additional evidence of this. Both shops advised me that they would testify under oath, of their findings.
I called the MINI sales manager and advised him of my findings. I also demanded that MINI, USA repurchase the vehicle, for full price paid, less a reasonable amount for mileage. I reminded him that in the State of Maryland, it is illegal for a new car dealer to sell a vehicle that has sustained body or paint damage, without disclosing this damage to the buyer.
I believe that the selling dealer (BMW/MINI of Towson) was unaware of this damage. It is my belief that the damage occurred at either the Factory, the port of exit, or the port of entry. In light of Gore v. BMW, it was MINI USA's responsibility to inform the dealer that this vehicle had been damaged, and repaired.
I have retained attorneys to file suit against MINI USA, BMW USA, and BMW/MINI of Towson, for Fraud, Non-disclosure, Diminished value, and Conspiracy.
I would strongly advise anyone considering the purchase of a new MINI Cooper, to reconsider their purchase. Failing this, I would strongly advise anyone purchasing a new MINI Cooper to have the vehicle inspected by a competent third party, PRIOR to taking delivery. Finally, if you have already purchased a new MINI Cooper, I would strongly advise you to take the vehicle to a competent body shop, and have the vehicle inspected for any undisclosed body damage, or repair.
I would also encourage anyone still considering purchasing a vehicle from BMW/MINI of Towson, Md., to consider purchasing from another dealer, as this dealer seems only to be interested in taking your money, and taking no responsibility for defects in the products that they sell. The owner of the dealership, Louis Cohen, advised me that MINI had no record of the repair. This is troubling, as there be many more MINI's that have undisclosed pre-delivery damage. He also advised me that there was nothing that he could do...excellent customer service.
I have registered the domain name MiniUsaLies.com, to document this incident. If any MINI owner finds that his/her vehicle has undisclosed damage, you are encouraged to submit details of your vehicle to fraud@miniusalies.com.
My attorneys have advised me that if there are other cases of undisclosed damage, these cases may be eligible for certification of class action status.
Finally, to address the concerns of those (including myself) who feel that we are too litigious in the United States, I offer the following: I am only interested in receiving compensatory damages, in the form of a re-purchase by MINI USA of this vehicle. Any and all punitive damages that I may be awarded will be donated to charity. My intent is to teach MINI USA, and BMW USA a lesson...a lesson that they should have learned in 1997.
As a postscript, I've have been a BMW owner/customer since 1971. For thirty-six years, I have recommended the BMW brand to my friends and business associates. I always thought of BMW as a corporation that was above reproach. I was wrong. From this point, I will tarnish BMW USA's reputation, as well as the selling dealer's reputation, at every available opportunity.
If there is no record on the history report of VPC repairs, then it had to have been done after the car left the VPC (such as at the dealer).
3rd Gear
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
From: Lake Arrowhead, CA
You are seriously telling everyone not to buy MINI?! You don't think that this could EVER happen to Volvo then? (They're a Ford company, right? Didn't they make the Pinto? I guess they can be forgiven...) This is just a MINI/BMW issue.
It's interesting that you loved the car and never noticed or had any problems with it, so they obviously fixed so well that only an expert could notice something. I believe that the official deal is that they only have to disclose if the damage is worth more than 3% of the vehicle's worth. A repainted quarter panel hardly seems that big of a deal. If it were a performance or safety issue you'd have a point, but it seems very cosmetic.
It's interesting that you loved the car and never noticed or had any problems with it, so they obviously fixed so well that only an expert could notice something. I believe that the official deal is that they only have to disclose if the damage is worth more than 3% of the vehicle's worth. A repainted quarter panel hardly seems that big of a deal. If it were a performance or safety issue you'd have a point, but it seems very cosmetic.
3rd Gear
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 171
Likes: 0
From: long island
Sorry about your situation. This seems to happen quite a bit. I traded in my '02 Cooper for an '05 JCW. When the dealership had my '02 on the rack for trade in inspection, it was found that my frame was almost bent beyond repair! I was asked what did I hit. In fairness I had a minor rear end incident which said dealership repaired. They said the front right had major damage. I always noticed something didn't measure up, the bumper was just off a bit (not to get too ****). The dealership took the car for the trade, it went to auction & that was that, but it really pissed me off that this stuff happens.
If you search on NAM there was a group that did a tour of the VDC in California, & there are pictures of damaged MINIs & BMWs getting body work.
If you search on NAM there was a group that did a tour of the VDC in California, & there are pictures of damaged MINIs & BMWs getting body work.
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,881
Likes: 6
I've had plenty of BMWs (and now 2 MINIs) over the years, so I know that if any repair was made to the vehicle at the VPC, it is going to show up on the "Vehicle History Report" that your dealer can pull up. If it is not on this report, then the car absolutely was not painted at the port. BMW/MINI now disclose everything to the dealer (even minor stuff like replacing a wheel because of curb-rash, replacing a tow hook cover, painting a bumper, etc.). If the damage is over 3% of the value of the car, they will not deliver the car to the dealer and they will replace it with another vehicle instead.
If there is no record on the history report of VPC repairs, then it had to have been done after the car left the VPC (such as at the dealer).
If there is no record on the history report of VPC repairs, then it had to have been done after the car left the VPC (such as at the dealer).
With this being said, that leaves a few conclusions that one could come to: 1) it was repaired at the port, the dealer knew and said nothing about this, 2) it was repaired at the dealer (in which case MINI USA has nothing to do with this), or 3) it was repaired after he took delivery (which seems unlikely unless someone borrowed the car, damaged it, and tried to fix it behind is back)
2nd Gear
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
From: Lindenhurst, Long Island NY
I imagine any damage from shipping is going to be a minor ding or scratch, Im sure they are not doing a demolition derby with these cars. if any of my car was repainted then they did a hell of a job. I guess since im not selling my car it doesnt matter, Dont know if i would trust carmax though. I would get more appraisals for comparison.