Hi,
As mentioned before Thanksgiving I had idiot dude
in the TV van smash my bumper in.

I want repairs, depreciation, and loss of use.
They have agreed to the repairs and semi agreed to the loss of use.

That leaves the depreciation charge. So far the mini dealer and the bmw
won't agree to give a written estimate of extra depreciation due to
the record of the crash/carfax for life, etc etc because it puts them
in a difficult position as far as legal liability. I understand that.

My attorney has said (in summary, and this is not related to this crash)
That basically 10-30% depreciation should be asked for, and normally
the higher end car it is and the newer car it is the figure should be
more in the 30% range.

One of the dealers above (i dont want to point one out) said
just tell them you want $X depreciation and see if you can
at least get something.

Is there any way I can come up with a supporting something
I can use if I have to sue?

I have googled it to death and cant find anything.

Thanks.

 

This is called "dimunition of value" . The insurance companies do not like to pay for this and if you where not injuried in the accident it will be difficult to collect. The insurance companies do not want to pay because it would add thousands to every claim and add up to the millions. If you are not injuried, suing will not get you to far. You have to pay for your lawyer so if you collect an additional $1,000 and pay your lawyer $1,000 or more what good did you do. IF you are injuried, your lawyer fee will come out of the pain & suffering part of the settlement and the larger the actual damages the more the pain and suffering will be.

Added to your problem is that you cannot prove your loss. As you noted you cannot get anyone to put in writing the value of your loss. Proving your loss is a major part of collecting from an insurance company.

 

Just googled dimunition of value. You should find a lot more information that may assist in your claim.

Also the loss of use, renting you a car while your car is in for repairs should be paid without a problem. The insurance company will only pay when your car is actually unusable either because it is undrivable after the accident or because it is in the shop

 

This is very helpful.

Dimunition of value. Thanks.

I understand how the big cases work. I had my back
broken by a cell phone talking no looking maniac.

The dimunition of value I'm looking for will be in the hundreds not thousands.
I want payment for loss of use for maybe 2 days even though I'm really
without a car 4 days because there is a drop off day and a pick up day.

I do not want to take The Man's rental car because once I do that
the entire terms of the settlement are dictated by them not me.

 

I do understand the insurance companies are there to make money
not to pay claims.

I didnt mean to imply that my lawyer is involved directly.

My aim is to gather evidence in regards to repairs, loss of use,
and dimuation of value, then take them to small claims court.

I figure that is the owner of the monster van (company) not the
driver or the insurance company, as it is my understanding that
the owner is the one legally responsible.

But this is a small claims case in the neighborhood of $1000-1200
I don't have the exact figure.

 

Hey Condor,

It sounds like you and are in very similar circumstances. 2 nights ago My daughter and I got rear ended by a woman driving an SUV and paying attention to everything but the road (could have just as easily been a guy - so I'm not being sexist here folks!).

My 03 MCS has low miles (23K) for its year (2003) and I took real pride knowing that the resale value of my car has always been strong. Well also being a car nut I know all to well that once you get a line on your carfax that your resale takes a clobbering. My damages are about the same as yours since it really wasn't a bad hit but in my case the bumper skin will need to be replaced and I'm sure that a bunch of structural items will require replacement under that skin.

I'm trying to figure out the depreciation hit as well so maybe you and I and anyone else with some good info can help each other out here. Luckily (if you can really say that after having been rear-ended by some doofus) I'm in Georgia and we are one of the few states that actually recognizes the loss of value due to an accident.

The big issue I guess for both of us is to try to come up with depreciation numbers that are defensible to the insurance company. If there is anyone out that can also throw in their experience here I think you'd be helping a couple of mini owners trying to get a fair shake.

 

Alt,

One thing you want to kept on your side is the possible injury to your daughter. I have seen the very minor accidents settle for $15,000 and more. Do not tell the other insurance carrier she is not injury. Tell them you are waiting to she how she feels and may take her to the doctors to be examined.

The reason is the damage to your Mini only grows by the rate of interest. So if you Mini have $2,000 of damage, 10 years from now you are only owed $2,000 plus interest. BUT bodily injury grows daily. Everyday I suffer from the injury my pain and suffering payment grows. 10 years from now you would be owed an exponential amount.

 

Thx Scott.

I appreciate the input. I have to say that I wish like crazy that my daughter wasn't in the car with me. I say that because I keep asking myself whether or not a child has the ability to understand how important it is to tell you they got hurt and not try to 'hide' it because they're scared. She was crying like crazy after the accident due to the shock factor I think. She obviously had never experienced anything like that before and of course was pretty shaken up. But that blurred the lines because I wasn't sure if she was crying because something hurt or she was just scared. The whole damn experience just sucked!

I know one thing for sure - I thank the powers that be every morning since the accident that she has all her fingers and toes and all other parts and pieces because I think about kids in accidents that thats not the case for and it breaks my heart.

Anyway - thx again for the reply...

 

I'm sorry to hear about your crash.

As it turns out it looks like this will be a case of
The Man kicking down the little man.

I'll spend 30, 40, 50 hours preparing my little court case.
For what appears to most likely be less than $300.
If they decide to appeal to superior court just to FK with me,
I'd have to get a lawyer. I can probably get his fees back,
but its hard to get a lawyer to go to court on straight rate
because they lose money since it takes away time and energy
for sueing people.

I guess the real mistake is being honest person. Since I didnt
feel I was injured. I'm not telling anyone to lie mind you, but
it's not a bad idea to hold you neck when you get out of the
car and go straight to the urgent care. Just to make sure.
With no personal injuries you have really no realistic way
to get compensated for property loss in NC.

Oh, and its about impossible to get somebody to give you
a diminuation of value estimate because they don't want
to have the liability.

In fact, it is even getting kinda hard to get an estimate just for
the property damage. I had the BMW dealer tell me the only
way they will get me a written estimate is if I drop the car off,
sign that I agree to the repairs, they then take the car apart,
make an estimate, contact the insurance company, they come
out and look at it, then parts are ordered, then its put back together,
and finally, I don't get my car back until I sign a release saying
I waive all my rights and they can get the check from the insurance
company.

I have no idea how long I will be without a car in the above.

So it looks like what will happen is I'm dropping my car off
at an independant shop that I trust as soon as he can get
the parts and that will be the end of it.

There is more to the story but I can't post that part for months.

 

I've never been a big fan of "diminution of value" claims, because a reduction of the car's market value as the result of repairs isn't a "loss" in the conventional sense, and in some cases, it might not result in a loss at all.

If a nearly-new car has had collision repairs performed, the current market value might be decreased by $3000 (just to pick an amount as an example). But, if you keep the car for ten years and then sell it, its market value compared to an otherwise-identical car might only be $500 less, or $250 less.

Likewise, if the car ends up totaled or stolen at some point in the future, the payoff from the insurance company won't be affected by the car's repair history, so in that case, you will have suffered *no loss at all* from the prior repairs.

 

While I find the post above to be pretty true, ie the depreciation value is not a fixed figure and it does tail off over time - the fact remains that the car, at the time of the accident, will no longer be able to bring the amount that it would before the accident (assuming clean carfax prior to accident - which is the case for both of us above I believe).

So, through no fault of my own, i now have property that has 'real-world' dropped in value on the open market regardless of how well the repairs are performed. So in terms of what that amount is - it only seems appropriate that the value is based on the time that the accident took place. Now I may choose to keep the car for longer in which case I guess you look at it like I make money. But the reality is - no one wants to deal with this crap and I would gladly go back in time and not have been at that intersection when that woman had her momentary lapse of reason.

 

condor,

THis sucks and I feel your pain buddy, but let's be realistic. In life, we sometimes have to choose which hill we want to take. It appears that your health is not in jeapordy and the chances of winning this are slim. You can fight the good fight and lose sight of life right now by wasting precious time stewing over your loss.

My suggestion is to chalk it up to "tuition of life" and get on with yours. Find something to rejoice in and it will all come back to you in a different direction. These cars are just "Things"!

Just my VH .02! and good luck which ever way you choose.

 

The last case I disagree with.

The insurance company is the first to argue
diminished value if it's totalled and has
a carfax on it. I've watched that happen big like
to a girl that works here. She ended up with
1/2, over a minor repair.

I agree with you on the other in that the actual loss
is hard to pin down, and depends on when you sell,
and what the rest of the condition it is in.

Most personal injury lawyers will tell you that the
range for DV is 10-30% of the crash estimate. And that
the newer the car, the higher endness of the car, and
the rarity of the car moves it toward the higher end of the range.

 

No, "appropriate" would be for the amount to be calculated when/if you actually sell the car and sustain the loss from diminished market value.

Unfortunately, insurance companies realize that they can't keep DoV claims open for years, waiting for the insured to sell the car (or have it stolen, or total it), so they pay out using current market value. This means that the insurance company "takes it in the shorts" in just about every possible case, except one in which the insured sells the car immediately after the repairs are performed.

If I were in the auto insurance business, when I paid out a claim on a stolen/totaled vehicle, I'd make damn sure to deduct the amount of any prior DoV claims paid on the vehicle from the payoff amount.

 

I think you misunderstood.

That is exactly what I'm saying.
I can't spend 40 hours on a $200 small claims case.
The Man knows it.

NOTE: I am VERY sure I can win it.

I just can't sacrifice that amount out of my life.

BTW, the reason I'm so angry about getting hit again,
is this tuition of life charge has added up for me lately -
3 different cars hit in 13 months, 3 months out of work
and $60,000 in medical bills due to no looking cell phone
talking maniacs.

Well there, now i'm all worked up again HA HA HA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Well, I guess it's just the price of life to live in a first world country.

 

That sounds like a shady insurance company doing their best to low-ball an insurance payoff. I just talked to my rep, my agent, and State Farm's central claims office, and they all confirmed that they do *not* examine a car's CARFAX/repair history when calculating a payoff amount in the case of a total loss or a theft. They *do* examine the car itself if it's available (i.e. not a non-recovered theft), and make adjustments based on the *overall* condition of the car, mileage, and options/modifications, but the basic amount of the payoff is based on NADA values.

If your co-worker accepted a payoff that was only 1/2 of what it should have been, it sounds as if she bought their story and rolled over. Had she really pressed the issue, I doubt the insurance company would have gotten away with it.

 

Actually regardless of how you determine "appropriate" the State of Georgia (and several others) do, in fact, agree that it is based on the time of the accident.

Along that line you noted: "Unfortunately, insurance companies realize that they can't keep DoV claims open for years,..." the reality is insurance companies didn't just all have a moment of generosity and acquiesce to this concept instead of waiting for some time frame as you inferred. They were sued in various States. For residents of Georgia and Kansas their laws both found that 'diminished value' is real and is based on the time that the accident occurred and other States have similar laws but depend on whether or not you were at fault.

So: time of the accident=appropriate for me.

 

I agree with the above, and also, the point of small claims is to make a person "whole" again - to me that would indicate the value of the car at the time of the accident, among other things.

I'm no expert on this sort of thing, and have no clue what that adjustment value should be. BUT if it's something as small as a few hundred dollars, my guess is that the company will just roll over and pay it to be through with you.

 

Paying a claim that's greater than the amount of the actual sustained loss in virtually every case still isn't "appropriate", regardless of what the law says.

However, I acknowledged in my earlier post that unfortunately, there's no other way to do it, since insurance companies can't keep the claims open while waiting for the insured to dispose of their car at some point in the future.

The equitable and fair thing to do would be to file a DoV claim when you sell the car and actually sustain a loss, but that's not practical, so we're stuck with the system we have now.

And this is just a personal peeve, but every time I hear someone wanking about wanting "to be made whole again" over something trivial, it makes my skin want to crawl off of my body. When they use that particular phrase, you'd think they were in a prisoner-of-war camp for the last ten years.