Yea.....but I keep finding myself in the weeds !

Oh and congrats on number 4000...............................

 

Huh? Did you even read the first link? Great behind the scenes story.

Post is right on, the car was not assisted by the cable at all.

See http://www.germancarblog.com/2005/10...-ski-jump.html

and http://www.testdriven.co.uk/news.cfm...cial-recreated

 

Not sure what you are saying.........is DSC good or bad? The traction control portion of the MINI is a bit to sensitive, but the other parts of the system work as they should.

 

This wasn't about driving, but posting on NAM.

I would never tell anyone who needs DSC to stay out of the ditch or out of the fencepost to turn it off. I would tell them to seek training.

 

As much as I hate to say this, if that darned nanny helped them get to the top of the hill, thumbs up for the traction control nanny for once. Yep I said that.

I use 4 real snows so my nanny sleeps in winter. Ian's circuit keeps nanny quiet all the other times.

 

Ok I have to ask...............with all of your years of experiance and training how would you be able to apply the brake to only a single rear wheel to get you out of an understeering condition brought on by slick roads and someone pulling out in front of you?

 

IIRC. Queen Anne is an 18% grade.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRZF9bonAZA

But I think Bell is steeper, and the run down from third to the bay is more than treacherous when icy.

I lived in Seattle for 7 years -- Capitol Hill off Mercer then North Queen Anne.

 

Actually, in a front wheel drive car, backing up a hill works pretty well! Try it some time.

 

I drive to the road & traffic conditions. I know my car doesn't have that magic nanny that will fix all my mistakes. Why do I only get to use one brake? My car has 4. If I was pushing that bad I'd yank the hand brake & crash backwards.

 

I've never had the DSC get me out of an understeer situation; probably into one though. I'm not attacking people who use DSC, but I was wondering if the R56 had the same system and whether the OT has experimented with it off.

EDIT: Oh, and the "full lock w/o DSC thing" was during the worst storm last spring. I had to stop midway up a steep hill after someone else slid backwards past me. I tried DSC then to get going, and it just cut all power and was unusable. I had to do some digging with the tires to get anywhere – the computer didn't realize that. Similar experiences the rest of the winter. I'll leave it on for light slush or black ice conditions, but when it's universally poor out I'd rather be in control of the car and know what it's doing.

 

If Queen Anne is 18%, I think the hill I went up is around 15%. It's pretty close to it but not as steep.

 

I tried to turn it off, but I was going at about the same rate, and at that rate, I would be burning my clutch to keep going. So I chose to use DSC. Which is why it made me think, if I had to slip the clutch to keep going and not skid, does that mean the DSC had to do something similar?

 

There might be an answer in this big ol' thread - https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=27144

 

You still won't answer the question tho..........

Have you ever driven an old VW or a dune buggy with turning brakes?

 

Please don't continue to blame the DSC for the traction control problem. Try it sometime in am empty parking lot. Go about 25 mph in the snow/ice and yank the wheel to induce an understeer. With the DSC on it will actually apply braking power to the inside rear wheel to assist you in making the corner. Now try it with the DSC off, you will continue to understeer until you get enough grip on the front tires to turn.

 

I actually experienced that when I was testing out the traction. I wasn't sure what it was at that time but at first it understeered, then after like 0.2 sec, it followed where my wheels pointed and made a sharp right like how it should. I really appreciate the DSC.

 

Hope this will explain how DSC works

 

I've had the DSC save my butt once while on a very tight turn to the left. I was only moving at 20mph when I hit a batch of sand with the front wheels just as as the turn started. The front wheels were turned sharp left and the car started sliding straight ahead on the sand and with less than a foot from the edge of the road the left rear tire locked from the DSC and since the rear tires were still on pavement, the car rotated to the left and kept me from going over the side. This was on La Honda Road while going from Palo Alto CA toward the coast. Scary at the time but very glad the DSC worked as advertised.

 

I've spent plenty of time "experimenting" in parking lots, thanks for the suggestion.

Fact of the matter is, I've learned how to drive in poor conditions without traction control systems. This includes driving to the conditions and knowing how the car will react. I don't jerk the steering wheel while on the street for a reason – it's a poor idea with or without DSC.

Disregarding personal preference for a second, I've also come to the conclusion that DSC is worthless in extremely poor conditions, like deep snow or ice underneath the snow. This has nothing to do with computer wizardry, and more with me knowing what I want to do better than the car. I know I've gotten stuck with DSC on. I know the only way I've gotten out is with switching it off. Regardless of how it can selectively brake a single wheel.

Cheers.

 

OK......one more time.........

Please stop calling the DSC system bad when you are complaining about the traction control. We all agree that the traction control is way to intrusive, but that the overall system is very beneficial. For everyday driving w/o an emergency situation you won't even know it's there. But as soon as you are put into an accident avoidance maneuver you will appreciate the DSC in all conditions.

From your statement that you don't jerk the wheel, I take it that you would rather hit the car that just pulled out in front of you?

 

I figured the comment deserved a little punishment. Sorry you didn't get it.

Really? My impression is that your posts discourage people from ordering DSC, and if they have it, encourage them to turn it off. That is completely at odds with this statement.

 

Haha. You're the one forcing this asinine conversation on me, ScottinBend. DSC is a traction control system – you're stooping to semantics when you differentiate between it and ASC or whatever else alphabet soup they have brewing under the hood. There is a single toggle which turns it all on or off. For the purposes of driving, it's IRRELEVANT which system makes my car handle like *** in snow.

For everyday driving I keep DSC on. When conditions are universally poor I know that I have better control of the vehicle and am safer with it off. You can choose to believe what you want. But pointing out the "gee whiz" technical sophistication of the system does not invalidate my experiences driving a lot last winter through horrible conditions. I jumped into my car whenever it got bad because I enjoyed it. (Getting stuck isn't a big deal when you're not trying to get anywhere specific on time.) I've experienced DSC in poor conditions. I do not appreciate it. This isn't from some abstract position where I hate traction control systems; this is grounded in real-world experimentation.

Theoreticals about someone pulling out in front of me are irrelevant. I, the driver, would know that someone was pulling out in front of me, and would react in a controlled, rational matter dependent on my experiences driving in poor conditions. I would do this independently of any traction control systems. Whether DSC would be an aid is entirely dependent on the conditions.

I am not saying that I'm a better or more experienced driver than you, the original poster, or anyone else who uses or doesn't use DSC. I don't care. I do care about driving safely in the winter and getting to my destinations. This means without DSC in poor conditions. If it means you drive with DSC, fine. Get the drift?

 

Gee I hope I haven't discouraged anyone from buying wonder nanny. I hope I have encouraged some to seek driver training so they can drive in a safer manner & not rely on the car to drive them. If a person feels they need DSC to be safe & sound then yes they should by all means have it. I wonder why folks want cars to drive for them, that's all.

 

It is not irrelevant because ASTC and DSC are different systems, they perform different functions, and one is optional while the other is not. DSC has to be ordered as part of a package or alacarte. So, when someone trying to decide what options to order with their MINI sees disparaging comments about DSC that are really about ASTC they might conclude that they shouldn't get DSC. Or, perhaps that is your intention.

 

Yea, I hope they can find the training that will allow them to brake one wheel at a time and react within milliseconds.