Sorry, I should have done a search before starting this thread. I hope it doesn't cause too much contention among the masses. I'm not using my DSC because of the adverse effects caused by it's partner, ASTC. I choose to press the button and away with it. Perhaps when I get snow tires, I will reactivate it...

 

DSC will not help you be a smoother driver, on the contrary if you come to hot or your line is messep up (early apex) you will need to correct while cornering and then DSC might kick in helping keep the car under control and on the track.
Also, if DSC ON would be the prefer track setting then why so many MCS drivers install LSD especially for track use?.
Although, I do agree with you that DSC off will allow the driver to understand car dynamics and it's limits.
But yet again, that is just my personal limited experience at the track...I am by no means an expert on the matter.

 

I am not sure what you are trying to say in the first sentence......but if you do come into a turn to hot or early apex a corner the DSC WILL help you stay on course. It will not cause you to go off course. It will only react to the inputs you have given the car. For example.....if you go into a turn to hot and are braking heavily as you enter the corner the DSC will kick in to assist you in making the corner based on your steering wheel input. If you are understeering (as most cars are set up to do at the limit) and try to make the corner under normal circumstances (no-DSC) you would just plow off the outside of the turn with the wheel cranked over trying to make the corner. With DSC engaged the car will respond by applying brakes to the appropriate wheel (something you CAN NOT DO manually) to get the car to rotate and go where you have pointed the wheel. Very easy to simulate at low speeds. Find an empty parking lot after a snow or when icy and try to get the car to understeer with the DSC on...........very very difficult. Now try it with the DSC turned off.....very very easy.

By using the DSC during a track day you can approach the limits of the car very quickly w/o putting the car off into the weeds. After you feel comfortable with the cars handling, you can turn it off and achive greater results, but with greater risks.

 

By using the DSC during a track day you can approach the limits of the car very quickly w/o putting the car off into the weeds. After you feel comfortable with the cars handling, you can turn it off and achive greater results, but with greater risks.[/quote]

Isn't it about pushing it as close to the limits as possible . No pain no gain...no risks...too slow .
But again, this is just my personal preference to run with the DSC off...the only times I have run with the DSC on is when the track it's been a little slick (due to rain), I am in Texas no snow here .

 

I was surprised when nobody responded to a thread I started: https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...d.php?t=120952

I found a website with BMW information and wondered how much of it applies to MINI. This is what I wrote concerning DSC (note -- I have a 1st gen MINI):

 

I was under the impression that that function was not activated on the MINI's. It should be easy to confirm tho......will try in tomorrows snow.

cucho.......DSC will not slow you down unless you get into trouble...

 

You are confusing DSC with ASTC. DSC and LSD do entirely different things. It is ASTC that tries to perform the LSD function.

 

Interesting comments. When I instruct novice students I use the traction control warning light as a learning tool. I teach them to work the limits until the computer starts correcting them. Once they can tell me what they did wrong to cause the traction to engage I let them turn it off so they can start the next process of learning without the aid of the computer. If they can't tell my what they did wrong, they continue to drive with traction on. It really helps them understand the physical dynamics of track driving.

Too many students learn to drive fast without ever really understanding why. The last thing I want is for them to think or say, "Oh crap, what do I do now?!?!?!?" When those students get into trouble it is usually much more dramatic because they don't know what went wrong and have no idea how to correct it. I try to teach them to think like the traction control computer and be able to fix the errors with the pedals and the steering wheel.

 

Excellent post !

 

If you have sticky, wide ,gummy tires on clean good warm roads your DSC will just be in the background. If you have skinny ,tall ,real snow tires in the snow it will be the same. Compromised all seasons or mix things up and you have a DSC problem just as if you had bald tires. The better you match your tires to the conditions the less the DSC has to work.

 

I guess I skipped the traction control on step I went straight for the "fixing the errors with pedals and the steering input" mostly because I was told by my first instructors to do that

 

OK.....went out and did a little bit of experimenting this morning in the ice and snow.

In regards to the "half on" DSC mode. I held the DSC button down until the light first went on then off and could not tell the difference between this setting and when the DSC is on. Both traction control and the DSC were functioning normally. With the light on I had no traction control or DSC intervention.

With apologies to crashton............the parking brake WILL lock up the rears as long as the handle is pulled sharply. My comment had to do with my use of the parking brake a little less forcefully and not keeping the rear brakes locked. I would just yank on the handle for a moment and then let it go once the car started rotating, not keeping the brake engaged for the entire turn. By letting go off the brake I was allowing the DSC to engage and try and get the car back under control.

cucho...........please don't confuse the DSC with just traction control. It is much more than that. As I stated above, you should never engage the traction control while on the track (not counting autoX). The MINI just doesn't have the power to light up the wheels while at any kind of speed.

 

Apology accepted Scott. Aren't hand brake turns fun?

The e brake design on the MINI isn't very good. Our Subaru has brake shoes on the inside of the rotor hat & stops the rear wheels like now!

 

So the rears are kind of a combintion of drum and disc brake?

 

Yes the rear has what you would call conventional disc brakes. The e brake has cables running to those brake shoes inside the rotor top hat. The rotor top hat serves as the drum. It really is a pretty sweet set up. IIRC the first time I saw that set up was on a Volvo 140.

 

Once upon a time I pressed (and held) the DSC button and shut off DSC and ASTC. I had more happiness in the car.

Today, I tried the 10 second button press and guess what? Just like Scottinbend, my DSC and ASTC were working once more. Guess that BMW coorelation thing doesn't exist.

I also tried an e-brake corner with DSC on and I did flip the rear right around and throttled up to correct the oversteer. So to conclude, I agree with post #62; you can lock up the e-brake with DSC on, and you cannot disable ASTC without disabling DSC as well.

 

Yeah it seams that I was getting traction and DSC confused...I got it now . And just not to be stubborn I will do 1 run with the DSC ON to experiment at the next track day. Fair enough?

 

I, too, leave the DSC on for the first few laps at the track. Once I feel it is getting in the way, I turn it off.

 

Do you guys mind creating a summary post of what actually is true about DSC, ASTC and LSD? When are they useful and when are they not? This became a thread that was filled with a lot of misinformation and it would be useful for the last post having an "in conclusion, here's the real deal..". I think otherwise that people will get the wrong impression about DSC and ASTC.

 

You can actually do both. I am teaching all of the techniques, but the traction warning light is a good tool for learning how you are getting into a problem. The next step is learning how to avoid it. The final step is learning how to get out of the promblem at the upper limits. There are too many instructors who see a student driving faster and faster, but forget to teach the little things along the way that payoff big time when the student reaches the upper limits.

I also prefer to keep the traction on early while teaching the student not only how to drive, but also the proper etiquette on the track. Or, in other words, how not to be "that guy" throughout the weekend.

 

ASTC (All Season Traction Control): Comes with all MINIs. Has to do with traction under acceleration. If a drive wheel starts to spin, it applies the brake to that wheel and/or cuts engine power. Can cause the MCS to seem like it is bogging down under heavy acceleration if traction is not great.

LSD (Limited Slip Differential): This is a mechanical device that more effectively puts power to the ground under acceleration. When one driving wheel starts to spin, it transfers power to the other wheel. It is a must-have option for the competitive minded driver.

DSC (Dynamic Stability Control): This is a safety feature. It has a different function than ASTC or LSD. It is about handling, not acceleration. It uses steering angle, yaw sensors, and lateral acceleration sensors to determine when the car is drifting. It applies brakes to individual wheels and "adjusts engine torque" to try to get the car back to moving in the direction the front wheels are pointing. This is a safety feature that, according to miniusa.com, "has been proven to dramatically cut down on accidents." DSC also includes Hill Assist which makes starting on a hill easier. DSC will become mandatory in the USA in a few years. It is a highly desirable safety feature. Most of the people who don't like it don't understand it, or confuse it with the less desirable (but unavoidable) ASCT.

 

Robin, if ASTC cuts engine power if a wheel starts to spin, how does LSD override this cuz if engine power is cut, there's no power to transfer to the nonspinning wheel. Also what happens if both wheels spin like on ice?

 

Robin, I'm sorry to disagree with you re preventing wheelspin. I can spin my front wheels from a dead stop anytime I want and the only way they stop is when I let up on the foot feed. Neverhave I had occasion to experience front brakes while accelerating and wheel spin. I've got a limited slip diff and perhaps that's why this AST isn't working.

 

LSD should take effect before ASTC and actually delay its coming into play.

 

What kind of effort does it take to spin your drive wheels? Are you popping the clutch at high revs? Have you modded the engine? Is this an R56, or earlier?