Matt, my point is that with anything and any design the use of common sense should prevail. I work with manufacturing of transportation components as a career and witness designs by engineers that too don't use common sense, hence the users must. Lighten up.

 

manufacturer of anything have no responsibility for the safety of customer, and that's obviously wrong. This is why there are standard for many safety related items, and this is as it should be.

Yes, there are things that are inhearnetly unsafe. And there are things that are carelessley unsafe. This falls into the latter. In the Semi industry, this part would be labelled as a hot spot, even though only trained workers are allowed into production facilities. And even though if you touch something you shouldn't in a semi fab you can get in big big trouble (some tools create revenue at the rate of $6m a minute).

Lighten up? did you see the burns that are happening? Is it your position that all deserved this or are just stupid by not paying attention? Did you read the post where someones child was burned? There is an assumption in law that kids aren't expected to have the same standards for judgement as adults, yet there are lots of kids around minis and MINI knows that. I'd say that you're correct in pointing out that there are safety issues that aren't really significant, but in the case of this one, I guess we have to agree to disagree about this falling into that camp.

And FWIW, I did file a complaint on this one. If any of you do it, selecte BMW as the manufacturer the first time, then you get to select if it's a Mini or a BMW. It takes all of five minutes.

If enough do it, the NTSHA will do an investigation. If they think we're all just cluess stupid people, then the investigation will die. If they deem that there is a real safety issue here that requires action, it could be as simple as a reccomendation to do something different in the future, to a recall.

Sorry for being a bit less than my normal lighthearted self, but I'm sleep deprived due to some issues with my family (dad had surgury, but is OK and recovering). But my sense of humor isn't what's in question here, it's the fact that people are getting hurt. If one looks at the numbers, say 10 here posted about it. We represent about 10%-20% of Mini owners in the US. So that means about 50-100 in the us have had issue. The US production is about 20% of all Mini production, so that's 250-500 people burned by the exhaust pipe design and placement. That's worthy of note.

Matt

 

Thanks for the great suggestion about filing a complaint with the NTSHA. I'll ignore the idiot who thinks that an innocent child getting burned by opening the back of the car is the same as smashing your own finger in the door. Sorry, but I think we need to protect our kids.

 

You can't put a safety cap on life. Ever been a motorcycle enthusiast? ANYBODY that rides a bike has burned themselves countless times. IF everyone sued every time they got a burny on their forearm or hand, there would be no motorcycle industry. PAY ATTENTION!!

But here's your solution: You COULD cut those exhaust pipes shorter. That will make for a very ugly blackened rear end on your car over time, doncha think?? But your legs will be oh so lovely.


"NAM: Where group therapy meets the road" - Surfblue

 

Don't stop shaving while you wait for a response from NTSHA unless you wanna look like Billy Gibbons.

Try some PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY on for size, Mister Mini owner. I know, I know, it's an outmoded concept. It's always someone else's fault.

And stay away from motorcycles, toasters and home barbeque equipment.

No jaywalking either.

Try video games. No one ever got burned by an X Box.

"We did it for the kids" - Charles Manson (and every stinking superintendent of schools and paper shuffler in the schools sytems nationwide.)

 

It's not like smashing your own finger in the door....but its just like a kid putting his hand on the stove.....or touching the metal of the barbecue grill.

That sucks for your kid....and it looks like it hurt.....but one shouldnt touch things that get super hot with use.

 

So anything that is made is OK? What's wrong with disagreing on this one? I think it's an avoidable design issue. Others do as well. I don't need anyone here to be my mother on what is personal responsibility. Why don't you all take that very same standard and apply it to corporate behaviour? How about the fact that most TSB that Mini issued, knowning full well there's an issue, say to only fix it if the customer complains? Wonder how many problems that Mini knew full well about end up getting real bad AFTER the warranty expires.

Is it really the implied position of all of you that think this isn't something to worry about that there is no standard for corporate behaviour that justifies a complaint? If you do think this, nothing here will change your mind, and if you don't think this, then I guess it's just a question of degree, and why we can't all just agree to disagree is beyond me.

If you get burned and don't want to do anything about it fine. If you do get burned and want to do something about it, fine as well.

Matt

One of the previous posters says he works with engineers that do crappy desgins (my paraphrase) and because of this, it behooves all to take extra percautions. While this is somewhat true, what about the employer who tolerates this and continues to emply the crappy engineer? Doesn't this act carry some sense of responsibility for the consiquences? Suppliers have responsibilities to the customers, people have respnisibility as well. To lay it all on one side is just a rediculous positon to take, and indefensible.

 

Thank you Matt!!

 

Ouch. second time. First time did not leave a mark. The people who dont understand this must not ever carrry anything in the back....especially with the seats down.

 

Just be careful everyone.

 

I've carried plenty, I've also burned myself, and know to avoid it!

I'm with most on this one, it's completely avoidable if you pay attention (I wasn't paying attention ). Is it avoidable by design? Sure, but the exhaust would look funny tucked under the bumper. Be careful around things you know are hot. If you do burn yourself, no biggy, a little burn cream and a bandaid and you're good as new. This isn't exactly a life threatening issue .

 

Matt, I have to say that you've made some good points and if this is the issue it appears to be, after reading all the posts, I agree that a design change is needed (I also never thought that slaming my fingers in a door would spark such interest, but hey that is good). Now, let's consider this...if a retro fit design change were to be effected what would you feel would be acceptable from both a safety and asthectic perspective? We know that twin exhaust on each side won't be a solution from a cost issue in any retro corrective action, and tucking the pipes back under the bumper on a car that creates rear vacuum as bad as the MINI does won't pass due to cabin fumes, but some type of guard probably would be. That being said, how do we as MINI owners want this thing to look?

 

but all involve some cost. The engineering of the tip could mitigate it a lot, the placement, and more.

Personally, I like the two sided exhaust, or to keep with the current muffler design, just move the exit to one side like on the Cooper. If you want differentiation, keep the two pipe exit, as they're just fakers anyway.... But then the last muffler would be a straight shot, and a lot easier to replace with aftermarket units. All we'd need to do this would be a "S" length rear plastic part with the exit behind the second muffler, and the modified second muffler. While not completely eliminating every risk, this surely would prevent most that happen from bumping into it while loading unloading.

The central dual exists are purely an asthetic design on the S, look at the bends coming out from the second muffler. Heck, one might even get a HP out of it!

Matt

 

My buddy burnt his leg on my Cooper's exhaust

Moving the exhaust left or right to the sides won't do anything. It just means you won't get burnt when standing in the middle. But as it is now, you won't get burnt standing to the left or the right.

Seems like the easiest solution would be to have one of the warning stickers (like the airbag one) on the back saying "warning, exhaust and engine get hot.....dont touch after driving"

 

while Cooper owners may get a burn, most of the posters here have Ss. Empirically (not the best way to judge) it seems like a partial solution at best, but somewhat of an improvement. One could play with some air gaps and mounting schemes to decrease the heat conduction to the tips as well, or go with an insulating material to decrease peak temps.

But Mini has had other heat issues as well. The hood on the Turbos have had some reported temps well over boiling water (yes, you CAN fry and egg on it!) that they've partially mitigated by putting holes in the fake scoop panel and running the cooling fan longer after a shut off.

Oh, but I forgot, because it's buyer beware, the fact that you could cook your breakfast on the hood is really the buyers problem...

Matt

 

It's not completely buyers beware, but it's not entirely manufacture fault either. The hood on cars isn't supposed to reach such temperatures....so they did something about it. The exhaust is supposed to get so hot......so to some extent, people should be careful around the exhaust tip. If it's out of a lack of knowledge that the ehxaust tip is a hot object....then the sticker would inform people (My brother, not a car guy by any means, burnt his leg on my cooper's exhaust and was incredibly confused as to why it would be hot ).

I have yet to attempt to pull anything out of the back of a new MCS....so perhaps they are precariously placed and could be recessed a bit more.....but the solution seems simple. When you go to get something.....attempt to avoid the object that is naturally hot after a drive (hoods are not naturally egg-cooking hot).

 

The point is that with the S exhaust smack in the center, it is exactly where you have to stand when you open the back-which for me is every time I drive the car. It is ridiculous the amount of vigilance it takes to keep everyone who rides in my car, including friends, away from the exhaust.

 

And my point is that MULTIPLE people have burnt their legs on my Cooper exhaust which isnt in the middle. You would still have to warn your friends not to stand to the side while removing whatever is in the trunk......

If you know one of your friends is gonna grab something from your trunk, simply say...watch out, the exhaust is hot. It only needs one warning...and i can't imagine you have that many different friends who carry things in your trunk.

No matter where they put it...the exhaust will be hot....it comes with its job. And no matter which side or center you put it in, your legs will be close to it because we have a hatchback that can require leaning into to get things out.

I encourage letting MINI know of your issues....but i also encourage you to teach people that the exhaust is a hot object (on all cars) just like you would teach a 5 year old not to touch the bright shiny stove that they are so eager to reach for.

Another idea is that if the tips are anything like they were on the r50 and r53.....you could just taken an allen wrench and remove the decorative tips. That should recess the exhaust an inch or two

 

And my point is that MULTIPLE people have burnt their legs on my Cooper exhaust which isnt in the middle. You would still have to warn your friends not to stand to the side while removing whatever is in the trunk......

If you know one of your friends is gonna grab something from your trunk, simply say...watch out, the exhaust is hot. It only needs one warning...and i can't imagine you have that many different friends who carry things in your trunk.

No matter where they put it...the exhaust will be hot....it comes with its job. And no matter which side or center you put it in, your legs will be close to it because we have a hatchback that can require leaning into to get things out.

I encourage letting MINI know of your issues....but i also encourage you to teach people that the exhaust is a hot object (on all cars) just like you would teach a 5 year old not to touch the bright shiny stove that they are so eager to reach for.

Another idea is that if the tips are anything like they were on the r50 and r53.....you could just taken an allen wrench and remove the decorative tips. That should recess the exhaust an inch or two.

EDIT: just checked realoem.....the exhaust tips are removable. Just take them off and you should be in the clear

 

And there you have it! This is the best middle of the road way to go. Let's the manufacturer know what's up, if they care. Lets the people around know of the local hazard, life goes on. Whether it's Mini, NHTSA or both is up to you, I'd vote both. the Office of Defect Investigations looks into this stuff, and will have a bit of perspective about other cars that have had the issue as well. Mini may just choose to duck this "First we've ever heard of it!"

Matt

 

Don't you think if someone with kids or something was really worried, they could remove the tips.....cut off an inch or two of the stock piping that's under the tips and then replace the tips if they really prefer that look? Seems like something any muffler shop would charge $15 for and it would be nice to know that your kids legs were a little bit safer.

 

And I heartily approve of any exhaust mod that involves a sawzall!

Matt

 

As promised... This was approx 7 days after the initial burn.

 

Lol maybe one of the vendors can make a product out of it

 

For everyone posting pics of burns, I feel for you That's terrible.