Thanks Spyder for the additional info. If all goes well I'll be installing next weekend!

 

Spyder, how long did it take you to install? Also how stiff is the ride with the new bar? I'll be getting an rspeed rear sway shortly and installing next weekend.

 

Strider:

The install was approximately 3 hours by myself. I had to go buy tools and was interupted multiple times so, it is an approximation. I would highly recommend a friend to help you out.

As far as the ride...up and down the ride is the same...side to side, less leaning. I have it set at the middle but changing to the stiffest setting soon. Now the front needs to be tightened.

I installed the red bar by mini mania 22mm.

Next install...pss9 or pulley.

 

Let me know when you switch to the stiffest setting and let me know how it rides. I installed the RSpeed rear sway bar last night. Unfortunately it took me over 4 hours! Most of the time was spent finding the right parts to remove, removing those parts and removing/installing the swaybar. Now that I know how to do it, with the right tools I think I can do it in an hour or so. Anyway the swaybar really does stiffen things up. I have it on the middle setting and there is much less roll/leaning when taking turns. In other posts people have said it turns like it's on rails and I understand now what they mean by that. The Mini is much more fun to drive now (even though I have only been able to drive her around for about 30 mins so far) Installation took so long because the support braces for the rear subframe are secured by some sort of large torx bolt which I didn't have a tool to remove. I was able to get to the center subframe bolt by removing the 2 small bolts securing the heat shield. I then just pushed the shield out of the way and used a socket wrench with a long extension. The subframe braces kept the subframe from dropping down too far but I had to pry it down to make enough room to get the swaybar in/out.

 

If your budget is larger, about $2000 installed, you can bypass the lowering springs and do directly to coil overs like Bilstein PSS9s. While not specifically for the 2005 Cabrios they do fit MC, MCS, MINI One models.

Coil overs give you adjustability and control for the ride stiffness and ride height. They are easy to adjust with one favorite setting for street use that is compliant and comfortable and another setting for stiffer ride when you need more performance. You can also add the stiffer adjustable rear sway bar to help reduce understeer when cornering fast.

 

I installed the H-sport competition rear sway bar on my MCSC yesterday, and had a slight fitment problem. The rear subframe is actually resting slightly on the bar's rubber bushings (after dropping the subframe, replacing the stock bar, and then securing the subframe, I had to drop the subframe again in order to thread the bolts for the bushings into the frame, then resecure the subframe again). So far, I've motored about 250 miles with no problems - however, there's a nagging question in my mind about whether this will cause trouble down the road once the subframe wears out the edge of the rubber bushing. I even thought about using a Dremel to cut off the part of the subframe that's resting on the bushing. Anyone encounter a similar situation? How did you solve it?

 

That doesn't sound right. When I put the rear swaybar on my 03 MCS I noticed that the subframe was slightly adjustable if you loosened all four bolts I would lift it on the body mounts and make sure that I couldn't move the subframe and eliminate the contact.

Also I think it's a good idea to get the rear toe / thrust angle adjusted after loosening the rear subframe. I have access to an alignment machine so I did my own and it was WAY out. (I also did springs and lower control arms at the same time).

 

Ryephile,

What you've described is roll couple, the relationship between roll centers and the centers of gravity - plural becasue these are not the same for front and rear.

The reason I'm responding to your reply is roll couple is a misunderstood concept and is in many instances vital to proper handling. A MacPhearson strut is a compromised suspension set-up. One of the drawbacks with a Mac strut is the effect on the CG and RC as the suspension is lowered. If you lower this strut by one inch, the CG is lowered by one inch. However, the RC may be lowered by as much as two inches. Who cares you ask? Weight transfer acts on roll centers first, then the CG and then thru every other part of the car until it finally acts on the tires. In the above example, the RC and CG are now two inches farther apart. The connection between the RC and CG is an invisible lever arm. Increase a lever arm and resulting forces are increased. As I've written many many times before, we sometimes do not feel this greater force becasue we've installed heavier springs and dampers to keep it in check. Unfortunately, in this scenario, much of the extra work load performed by these new springs and dampers is consumed by much greater roll couple.

There is an optimal relationship between spring and damper rates, AND, roll couple. Do not assume lowering roll centers is a good thing unless the distance between the roll centers and the centers of gravity are unchanged or made shorter. Also, when lowering any suspension, it is highly advisable to keep an eye on 'new' roll center migration - where the roll centers move to under complete suspension load.

 

My 06 has more body roll than my 03 MCS did. The 03 had a little but felt more flat going around the turns. What's suprising is the difference in the cars. My 03 was stock with no suspension changes and also the sunroof. My 06 I have added a H-sport rear sway bar and it does not have a sunroof. One would think the 06 would have less body roll. I guess it all boils down to the new "cushy tushy" changes made in mid 03.

I would like to have less body roll but also retain the same ride height as roads around here are not the greatest and my driveway has a decent grade to it. What exactly were the changes to the suspension in mid 03?

 

Body roll can be controlled in many ways. But first, don't think of body roll as a finite movement within time. Think 'rate of roll', the amount of time weight transfers to the tires. You can control roll by changing the amount of time it takes to get to full compression - on the outside tires of course. This is the job of the dampers. All dampers will use up every bit of suspension travel given the right circumstances. How quickly this happens will determine how effective a given damper is at controlling body weight transfer.

 

i used a dremel when i installed my rspeed bar. (since removed) i would ues some kind of paint or rubberized coatong to prevent rust. BTW i dont see how the subframe is adjustable as it seems the bolts fill the holes ie. not slotted, and everything bolts back up.

 

Thanks for the input! The part of the subframe that contacts the sway bar's bushing is just excess body putty, correct? I wish I snapped a photograph of the way the subframe was sitting on the rubber bushing.

As for the part about adjusting the subframe, were you referring to rough68fish's post?

 

yes, i dont see how the subframe is adjustable. the part the contacts the top of the bushing is the cars body from what i remember, not the subframe; and yes pretty much just excess material as you noted.

 

I understand what you're saying, meb, but I don't think it makes sense to warn about lowering MINIs when the factory authorized aftermarket suspension (the JCW Sport Suspension) in fact lowers the car vs. the stock setup. I would think that the JCW kit was the product of much testing and theoretically sound engineering.

Also . . . I was entirely geared up to install an H-Sport comp sway bar in my 05 MCSc until I heard about this fitment conflict.

Latte, have you done anything slicing and dicing yet? A photograph would go a long way in explaining exactly what the conflict is to those of us who haven't yet stared at the underside of a cabriolet.

 

I'm afraid I haven't had the opportunity to get under my car lately. It shouldn't take too long for me to jack up the car and remove a wheel for a photograph, but I haven't seen my digital camera in a couple months now. I'll try to have a photograph later this week, but as far as I'm aware, this is a relatively rare situation for MCSC owners - it's likely that you may not run into the situation yourself. Don't let it stop you from doing the H-Sport sway bar install - it's worth it! In fact, I just might want to adjust mine to the middle setting, and that'd be a great time to snap a photograph.