[quote=ronmichael;2297912]I doubly agree with Cubfan. I see what my MCSC is worth in the used market and it's nuts. I wonder who would pay that much for a used MINI when a new MINI isn't that much more expensive?[quote]
At this point in the year, it is probably coming down to a supply issue.

 

We got $200 off and free floor mats.

Used made no sense to us as already stated, they hold they value so well. Worth paying just a little bit more to get exactly the specs you want and a full waranty

 

Looks like I found some hen's teeth!
I am a huge fan of escaping the value loss of new cars therefore I always try to buy used first, if possible. With the MINI it is less likely that you will save a lot, but it worked out for me.

I got mine with 12K miles on it and couldn't be happier. The guy dropped it for a porsche, go figure.

 

hold on - the dealers have a certain ordering quota they have to maintain? Once they pass that magic quote #, they can't submit any more orders?? No wonder there are so many MAs (what does that term stand for, by the way??) and dealers are so lacksidasical or just rude......

 

hey.. can i ask where u got yr car?

 

My dealer (one of three in IL) only had two more slots left for orders for the 08 Cabrio. Maybe the cabrio is peculiliar this year because they are closing down the plant to re-tool for the 09. MA = Motoring Advisor = Salesperson.

I have dealt with two different MA's in my quest and both were fantastic, especially the one I ordered with.

 

I got mine in Naperville, and they said they were close to the end of their season allotment of Cabrios. Still pinching myself that I lucked into an unspoken-for Sidewalk with all the options I wanted (including malt-brown leather), and a paint-color better than I originally wanted.

 

Well I have to politely disagree with you.

Firstly, in my search for a used MINI I found many, many MINIs with low mileage and plenty of time left on the warranty. On mine that I bought two weeks ago it had 23,000 miles on it. That's 27,000 miles or two years left on the MINI warranty.

I assume that no member in here is contending that the MINI is shot at 23,000 miles, that 23,000 miles is "high mileage" or that at even 50,000 to 70,000 miles that the MINI is junk.

I am not aware of "lots of wear and tear items" that need to be replaced even at 50,000 miles. By that time, yes, the MINI might need tires and some other things replaced, but that is the trade-off when buying a used MINI.

In my search I saw that the MINIs with 40,000 to 60,000 miles had prices significantly lower than all the close to new car prices people are talking about in here.

And the lower mileage cars still reflected a significant savings over new. Take mine, for example. I paid $20,000 even for it. The seller gave me the original window sticker, etc. that came with the car. It sold out the door in June 2006 for close to $30,000. So I got it for $10,000 less on a car that was put in service exactly two years ago.

When I started my search I set the requirement that any MINI I bought would have to have 35,000 or less miles on it and at least one year left on the MINI warranty. [These requirements were fine because I drive less than 2000 miles a year]. A more frequent user/driver could simply set different limits, say 20,000 miles or less on the car.

I guess my main point is that these is no basis to say that buying a used MINI is "penny wise, pound foolish." Yeah, there's some MINIs that have been abused and trashed over time, but those are easily avoided.

And like I said, is anyone on these boards [or on the Net] contending that the MINI is trash at 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, or 80 thousand miles? I have not seen that. Unless one has proof of that, I don't see how buying a used MINI is foolish.

In my search for a MINI I found good cars to be the rule, not the exception. Yes, there were some that were obviously abused, you could tell even by the way the ads were written. But I did not even waste my time on those.

Mine was flawless. After spending all day detailing it you could not tell the car from a new one on the showroom floor. There were no door dings, the interior was mint, and there were no signs of the car having been driven.

What I found that as long as the MINI was not owned by some mental slob with a few of his or her front teeth missing, that most MINIs appear in excellent condition. To be sure, most have been babied and maintained through the dealer via the free maintenance.

I do think that buying a used MINI via a MINI dealership is not as good a deal and for sure the dealers are pricing those units close to what they would cost new. Private party MINIs are where the deals are at.

And in line with your statement, I do appreciate that there are people who buy new. Without you I would not have been able to find a used MINI to buy. And my three brothers are in your camp. They have never and will never buy used. They think I am a big time gambler and risk taker.

Please, buy new, buy often.

 

USED NEW

Here my story:
I sold to a private individual my '05 MCSC 21,000 miles - DS- Winter -sport Packages some of the Premium- DSC -GPS - iPod connection (still under MINI warranty) floor mats, MINI spare tire and $75.00 for detailing the car price $21,500. Still 1 yr or 25K warranty and extended maintenance with included free road assistance.


The same day I picked up my '08. Everything I had in the '05 just instead of DS (more expensive) I got PW and LSD . Price $32,000 ..

If you don't have $10K extra it makes sense to buy a used MINI

 

That was my situation.

I hate car payments and have not had any since the early 90s.

So in paying cash I had a $24k outside budget. New won't ever be in my books because I don't have the extra $10k, at least not that I am willing to sink into a car, in cash.

I no longer like having a lot of money tied up in cars, hence my budget. By the time I paid taxes, fees [and a few accessories ] I came in about $23k.

So that's my story.

 

I'm enjoying this thread, and I think there are a lot of good points here.

I started this thread to pick a dealer. I picked one yesterday, and got their last slot for a Cabrio. Good timing, eh? (No, I'm not Canadian)

In reply to the pro-used post above, if you only drive 2000 miles a year, then mileage will never be an issue for you. That definately allows you to buy a higher mileage car and have the same experience others would with a pricier, low mileage car. You win, and used is a great choice. I have $110k on one car I've had for 13 years, and $105 on a 20-year-old I got 4 years ago. An extra 40k would only matter if it weren't taken care of, which isn't much of a gamble these days.

For a few years I have said that my next car will be a used one. I'm a capable mechanic. I've owned my '95 Passat since new and it has only seen a shop for warranty items. I have also seen lots of cars lose way too much value in the first two years, so used is often the way to go. My brother did very well getting an off-lease Audi. Anyway, I began by learning about MINI's and looking for used ones. Here's what I found and what factored in to the decision to buy new:

High resale: as others have said, MINI's hold their value very well. In the case of a Cooper S Cabrio, they hold it even better, so the price advantage is minimized there.

Low Mileage: I'm a good mechanic and I maintain three cars and a bike, so owning a high mileage car is not a problem. I would only put 6000 miles per year on a MINI. So I can tollerate higher mileage than most.

Pickiness: I'm really picky. I hate automatic A/C controls on every car I've been in that has them. I think the factory vinyl stripes look really cheap up close (great from a few feet away), and the ones I like, which go through the emblem, are poorly cut around the emblem. I only wanted Pepper White. I have had several quick FWD cars that have more power than traction, so I want an LSD. Many of the MINI wheels are ugly to me. So you see what's happening here. The ability to custom order a MINI suited me well. I did see a few PW MCSC's sell recently that could have been modified to suit, but never just right, and not close to me.

Mushrooming: I'd have to see the car in person to tell whether this were a problem, so long distance purchases are less of an option.

Tranport: I hear that having a car transported across the country is pricier than it used to be, which makes sense.

Longevity: I plan to own the car a long time. So as the price advantage narrows, the price advantage divided by the years I'll have it is likely very small. Of course, I planned to own my van for a long time, and it got totalled at a sprightly 4 years of age last month.

So I ordered one. I'm fortunate to "have the $10k", though the price difference in one's I found was never that much unless it had few options.

I generally plan on a car costing me about $2500 per year. With used prices approaching $3000 per year cost difference, there isn't much going for it unless I just found a much better deal.

My new one will be $31k. It is basically a Premium, Sport, Convenience car with vinyl. I didn't get the Premium package, but got the options in that package a la carte so I could delete the Auto A/C. Doing so cost the same as getting the whole premium package. In the end, I also deleted another $few from that "package". I plan to do some aftermarket leather, since the examples of that I've seen are routinely more impressive than factory leather, and cost less. I also plan to match a lot of the car's odd silver painted stuff to the exterior color, including the shifter, doors, uprights, dash, web spoke wheel centers, door handle surrounds, and steering wheel inserts (I deleted the multispoke/cruise so the inserts could be painted easily - maybe that was going too far). I did get anthracite on the dash, but it is cheaper and more thorough to paint lots of stuff myself than order a few of the bits already painted. I also have dreams of blending the hood scoop to the hood and painting some black hood stripes on. That may never actually happen. I nixed the iPod adapter for DICE at the last moment, thanks to advice from NAM, saving a few $ and getting a better product, in theory. Now I just need to buy an iPod, and paint it Pepper White, I suppose.

There, I've trumped you all by hijacking my post back, and turning it in a whole new direction with a marathon post.

 

I was at the dealer getting a part [$12 lighted side marker where the yellow lens fell off the main assembly. A warranty claim, but not worth the time for $12].

While there I walked past the new MINIs. For sure, can't beat getting exactly what you want and new MINIs look very nice on the showroom floor. Congrats on the purchase.

Coincidentally, my used red cab was exactly the car I wanted as I had driven a similar MINI "rental" from my local City Car Share.

It was kind of surreal that my MINI appeared on Craig's List exactly at the time I said I wanted a red MINI convertible like the one I had spent the day with and that it was within my $24k budget [after taxes and fees.]

My car looks brand new and at 23,000 miles I would submit that it is as new and only broken in. For sure, depreciation is not an issue with MINIs [as they are appreciating in value, read attached Forbes article.]

http://www.heartinsanfrancisco.com/M...orbe062008.pdf

Alas an extra $10,000 for new was not in the budget. Since the MINI holds its value, there is certainly an incentive to buy new [albeit I no longer want that much cash tied up in a car since the money does not earn interest and cars are normally a depreciating asset.]

Sidenote: Last night put the top down and went to fuel up the MINI so I would not have to hassle with it today before teaching. The MINI is an amusement ride. But for the price of fuel I would have gone for a late night ride. [Not that a $5 "joyride" is expensive, I am simply not wanting to waste energy, don't feel it's right for me to waste fuel while others have to spend lots of money to commute, and don't like contributing to the oil company profits.] Was saddened to return to my garage. I have not had that feeling in a car in a very long time and I have had some really nice cars. The MINI cab is that much fun. I am keeping my MINI for a very, very, very long time.

 

Haygood, is that the out-the-door price? Here in California I would have to add 8.5 % sales tax and $500 in fees, license and reg.

On a $31K car that would be about $34,000 OTD. Definitely could not have been in my budget.

 

Some good info in here...Looking at picking up one up this week actually (non S for my mom)...and most likely new. Any salesperson recommendations. Would prefer either SF or Mountain view mini since those are probably where I would be servicing the car.

 

There was a member in here who vanished after his car got keyed at MINI of Mountain View. He was test driving a MINI at MINI MV and when he got back, his Subaru, or something like that, had been keyed. As I recall he took the MINI on a test drive, got back and on entering his car, he noticed it had been keyed.

He was tire kicking on getting a MINI and very enthused, but his last post was weeks ago, so I think his car getting keyed at MINI MV pushed him over the edge to getting a Mazda 3 [I think that is what he was debating over, that or a MINI.] Guess anyone would say to heck with a MINI after something like that happening at the dealership one would need to take the car to for servicing.]

No one figured out who keyed the car but MINI of MV's service dept. was [and is?] on strike. When he went in for the test drive he was crossing the picket line. No doubt that pissed off the picketers.

Here is his thread:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...d.php?t=142685

Up to anyone to opine how that incident reflects on MINI of MV as a dealership. If I was going to buy a MINI I would NOT buy from MINI of MV. Who knows how pissed off the workers are. They may take it out on your mom's new car when in for servicing.

Other than that car keying episode, I do note that the person I bought my used MINI from had bought it from MINI of MV. I did not ask her what she thought of the dealership. She took it in for maintenance and a couple of warranty claims [minor stuff, thermostat, etc.] Paperwork does not reveal anything remarkable.

I have lots of experience with SF MINI / BMW. I bought a 540i and 740i [not from them.] But I had to take those cars into that dealership for servicing. Suffice it to say, if I did not have to take in cars for warranty service, I would never go in there.

Between the two I'd go with MINI in San Francisco and they will treat your mom with respect and dignity. But they are like any other dealership of high end cars, phonies and snobs. I hate going in there for anything.

Despite what owning a BMW 740i implies, I am happiest on my scooter in jeans and t-shirt. I am unhappiest when going into BMW SF and being surrounded by a bunch of phony, plastic snobs. Most people don't care about that kind of stuff, it's just me.

Oh, I dunno how the MINI salespeople will act considering that the MINI is pretty much selling itself. When a car is hot on the market, some sales people tend to act even more condescending than they already are, at a high end car dealership.

Bonus tip: When I was in MINI SF the last couple weeks, I saw the MINIs have that ridiculous "additional dealer markup" handwritten on the window stickers. That's so offensive and bogus.

They act like you are a tough negotiator if you get them to take ADM off the deal. Definitely a cheesy way to make it look like you are getting something. I certainly would not be bragging to my friends that I got a good deal by getting the ADM discounted or taken off the sales price.

On average the additional dealer markup was $1500 on the cars I looked at. Consumer Reports and other tips magazines say to walk away from dealerships if they pull that tactic [having additional dealer markup] because it is so offensive a maneuver.

Of course that would mean you could not get the MINI for your mom. So hold your nose, walk in, and do a deal. Just letting you know about the $1500 add on.

 

I went into Crevier BMW and was told that a Clubman S or a Mini Cooper S with JCW would be $5K over MSRP.

I decided to look at the used market at that point. I won't pay over MSRP for anything.

I negotiated $2K under MSRP for a built to order BMW at the Crevier BMW dealership next door about 10 months ago.

Sure, there is room for negotiation, but $5K over? I didn't like the starting point for negotiations, so I said forget it.

 

Thanks for the feedback on the 2 peninsula stores. Have a great relationship with sf since i work only with the head of the service dept on my M. Asked him for a sales referral so im waiting for the call back this afternoon. Tough to find good ppl to work with so im hoping that the process goes well. From those who have recently picked up 08's...what are the base must have options as she's not one for excess and toys like myself. I have no problem paying msrp...or whatever the current market prices are if some dealers are giving 500 back of list or so. Just looking for a fair, easy deal...shouldnt be too much to ask for right lol

 

The strike:

http://www.mv-voice.com/news/show_story.php?id=654

NAM thread on strike:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co....php?p=2296099

A MINI MV employee's post from another site:

http://forums.roadfly.com/forums/min...8961542-1.html

I wanted to let all Bay Area Mini owners who have used our dealership that us as techs and advisors are committed to resolving the ongoing labor issue. Please know that the issues lie with Autonation and we are very sorry for any inconvenience. Unfortunately the fact that all our sick days, 4 holidays, slashing medical/dental, a flatrate/commision payplan and a subsantial paycut were part of the offering. I know Mini service for warranty is now a problem and a long drive. How you can help, call Autonation corporate and ask for a speedy resolution and honk your horn when you go by. We as techs and advisors don't want our pay based on what we sell you or how fast we fix your car. Autonation is am fortune 500 company with the means to properly compensate "all" its employees. Once again all of us at both MINI & BMW service employees apologize we didn't ask to stand on the sidewalk but we can't afford not to.

Who keyed MINI1966's car? I dunno. But you have the info to decide where to shop.

 

For that kind of gouging, you could order a MINI from a Midwest Dealer at MSRP and drive it back for less than the $5K over MSRP....OUCH

 

My recommendation: avoid MINI of Mountain View like the plague. And YES, this opinion is because of the strike. We used to get all of our service done there, and were very happy with the professionals who worked on our car. The new corporate overlord (AutoNation) is trying to screw both the workers (by taking away pay and benefits) and the customers (by switching to piecework pay from hourly), and from everything I've observed they are making ZERO effort to negotiate in good faith with their employees.

Just go somewhere else. And let AutoNation know you've done so.

Then again, if you're passionately anti-union, go ahead and do the opposite.

MINI of Mountain View will not be getting any more of our business. (Though now that I have a few phone numbers, their quality people are still taking care of our MINI.)

 

I had to stay within my budget because I paid all cash, no payments. So I took the frills and options as I found them on the car I was going to buy.

Options I like on mine:

Premium sound. But that may not be important to your mom. Sure sounds nice though.

"Premium package" which includes lots of stuff I am unaware of to list as included with that package.

Multi-Function steering wheel is essential, one gets used to it and a plain wheel looks... plain.

I have the "leather" seats, that are really just vinyl, I think. Not as expensive as leather seats, but look like leather. And way nicer than cloth [if cloth seats even come on MINIs. My "leatherette" seats may be the cheapest configuration.]

Interior Chrome package is nice, it dresses up the gauges.

I don't think she needs [and I don't have] any of the sport suspension or other upgrades. I am not that aggressive a driver, so don't miss those items. Besides, the Highway Patrol is always on my route to teaching at the university, so if I had an S with the suspension upgrades I'd be getting tickets all the time. As it is my non-S zips at 80 mph too easily. I am always having to curb my speed.

Cold weather package is nice as that gives your mom heated seats. A nice touch, literally. Nothing like a warm *** and cool head.

Not sure if she needs an automatic, but if a manual is OK, the non-S runs best with a manual. I would go with a manual transmission.

Leather covered steering wheel is nice. Not sure what package that comes with, but I have it. Really makes the car feel like a $40,000 BMW. It may come with the premium package.

Have them toss in some MINI mats for free. They are nice looking with the little MINI logo in the corners.

I have an armrest, which was apparently an expensive option. It's useless an an armrest, but has a little storage bin that is handy for little items.

Mine came with the "lights package." I don't know what that is, but my interior door handles have cool little orange LED lights and my storage area in front of the console is also lit. But don't know if that is what they mean by lights package. I don't have the fancy xenon projector headlights, so that cannot be what they meant by lights package.

Are run flat tires an option? If so, pass on them. I think those are on the S models, but if an option on the non-S, don't get those. See the threads that say run flats make for a rough ride. Also, run flats with 17" wheels may cause the strut plates to mushroom. [Big debate on that, since 2006 when the thread was created.]

Others will chime in what is essential to them and must haves, but this is coming from someone who probably has the same requirements and non-requirements as your mom. For example, apparently 70% of MINI sales are the S model. Most enthusiasts would say never to get a non-S and no doubt think I am fool for buying a non-S. Oh well.

 

I'm thinking must for her are the cold weather, BT/ipod, leather steering wheel w/ controls, and 6MT...beyond those i'll let her decide since i wont be the one driving it. I'm the one who enjoys driving the twisties and track days and such, but for her it'll just be a sporty, yet comfy daily cruiser. Funny with such a light spec, its barely much less than a base S...

Thanks for the input on those options.

 

Also let me give a +1 on going used. We got our '05 MCSc just over a year ago: fully loaded with almost all options including nav, 31K miles, aftermarket upgraded stereo, most excellent condition inside and out. $21K ... more than a $10K savings on what a local used car dealer wanted for a similar car. Craigslist rocks!

 

Yeah, they probably only say $5K, so that when someone does pay $1-2K over MSRP, they feel like they are getting a deal.

Anyhoo, that Mini dealer won't be getting my business. And, I decided to look for used. It's a hard hunt, finding one with all the perfect options, but I think I have found my perfect match...

 

I completely lucked out in finding my "perfect match." But on thinking about it, at the end of the day that maxim seems to prove accurate: hard work pays off.

I had been reading the Forums here for two months, learned a lot, and looked online about six weeks to see what was out there. Even checked Los Angeles because of its huge car market, plus going down to L. A. from San Francisco is nothing when one is buying a $24k car [my total out-the-door budget.]

IMHO the key is simply keeping an open mind when buying used. By the time I bought I had a good idea of what was out there: options and accessories configuration, prices, mileage and overall condition.

What saved me a lot of future misery was spending maybe 200 hours reading every thread on NAM. Why so long? Well, for example, the "shroom" thread goes back to 2006! Took me a long time to get through that one.

Because of NAM member posts I decided to get a late-2005 to 2006, a Getrag manual transmission, and to look out for shrooms. I also was able to get a good idea of what options and packages were essential versus those that would be nice, but not deal breakers if the car did not have them.

The main things I did was to remain disciplined [hold out to find a MINI I felt was right for me] and to search, search and search. Eventually, as you say, the perfect match pops up, seemingly out of nowhere.