R50/53 do you have "CONSUMER REPORTS" report ?
4th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 418
Likes: 0
From: Baltimore, MD
This is what they have for 2003:
The new Mini, developed by BMW, manages to blend much of the rakish charm of the old '60s classic with modern levels of cabin amenities and safety. It is powered by an all-new 1.6-liter, four-cylinder engine, paired with either a five-speed manual or a continuously variable transmission (CVT). The manual version offers easy shifting. Handling is extremely agile, but the ride is choppy. The base engine lacks oomph. Road noise is pronounced. Tall people will find the cockpit roomy, but the rear is very tight. A supercharged S model with a six-speed manual is quicker and grippier but rides more harshly.
Reliability: Not enough survey responses to show reliability history for this model.
This review represents our latest advice on the current model. It's based on our expert perspective, plus the latest reliability and test data for this year's model or an essentially similar predecessor.
Road test comparsions:
The original British Mini, introduced in 1959, helped bring sporty performance to small cars. Designed to be a space-efficient, economical urban runabout, it was an innovative car with the then-radical features of front-wheel drive, transverse (sideways-mounted) engine, and wheels pushed to the corners, all of which helped maximize interior space. Exceptionally agile and lightweight, the Mini was fun to drive. Over the years, Minis gained a cult following, who modified them for sports-car performance and amateur racing. Now, more than four decades later, with increased sportiness an ongoing theme of small cars, it seems natural that the Mini should reappear as a modern sporty hatchback.
Having re-emerged as a niche category in the last few years, today's sporty hatchbacks combine some cargo-carrying flexibility with sporty styling, strong acceleration, and affordable pricing. We compared the new Mini with four other models representing different approaches to the same idea. The Ford SVT Focus, Honda Civic Si, and Volkswagen New Beetle Turbo S, based on existing small cars, have been modified with stronger engines and stiffer suspensions. The redesigned Hyundai Tiburon is a more traditional sporty coupe with a rear hatch.
In general, these cars offer quicker acceleration and better handling than the typical small car. With a rear hatch and folding rear seats, they also provide more versatility than a typical sports car. As is common with sporty cars, the trade-off is usually a stiffer, less comfortable ride and a tight rear seat. Our tested cars range from $18,000 to $24,000, and each has two doors, manual transmission, and, except for the V6-powered Tiburon GT, a four-cylinder engine. The Mini and Tiburon GT are also available with an automatic transmission; to get an automatic for the other three models, you need to buy a different trim version.
RECOMMENDATIONS
Of the five cars we tested, only two--the SVT Focus and the Mini--are truly fun to drive. And only one--the Honda Civic Si--is expected to be reliable enough for us to recommend it. Therein lies the rub. When we test cars, we base their scores on performance, convenience, comfort, and fuel economy. To be recommended, however, a vehicle not only must score well in our tests but also must have average or better reliability based on our annual reader survey. That's why a top-scoring car may not be recommended, while a reliable but just-adequate performer may get the nod.
The SVT Focus is a case in point. Its high test scores allowed it to easily top our Ratings for this group. It handles almost as crisply as a Porsche Boxster, yet accommodates five people in an exceptionally roomy cabin and delivers a tolerable ride. But poor reliability of earlier Focus models prevents us from recommending it.
The SVT Focus is available as a two- or four-door hatchback. The SVT treatment boosts the car's 2.0-liter Four from 130 to 170 hp and adds a six-speed manual transmission and extensive suspension, brake, and interior upgrades. It starts at $17,480. With sunroof, heated seats, and traction control, the price came to $18,985, including shipping. The CR Wholesale Price--which includes buyer rebates and what the dealer paid after incentives--is $15,901. (All CR Wholesale Prices were effective for 2003 models as of August 2002.)
The Mini Cooper is built in England by a subsidiary of Germany's BMW. It retains styling cues from the original, but the Cooper is a new design with contemporary interior styling and modern features and technology. The higher-performance, 163-hp supercharged Cooper S wasn't available in time for our test.
Super-nimble handling makes the Mini Cooper a delightful car to drive, and the cockpit is surprisingly roomy even for tall drivers. The interior is full of thoughtful details. But the ride is a bit choppy, the rear seat very tight, and road noise pronounced. The base model's engine lacks real oomph. A check-test of an S version told us that it is a little quicker and has more tire grip, but it has a stiffer ride. Reliability is unknown.
The base Mini starts at $16,300 and comes with a 115-hp, 1.6-liter Four. With a package that bundles in a dual sunroof and automatic climate control, the price came to $18,100, including shipping. (The S version costs about $3,000 more.) The CR Wholesale Price is $16,465 for the base model we tested.
The Volkswagen New Beetle Turbo S is quick and comfortable, and the front cabin is airy and spacious. But this is no sports car. Handling is sound, but not in the same league as the SVT Focus or Mini. Reliability has been worse than average. The Turbo S includes a 180-hp, 1.8-liter turbocharged Four, a six-speed manual gearbox, stability control, and a power-retractable rear spoiler. It comes fully equipped for $24,050, including shipping. The CR Wholesale Price is $21,937.
Over the years, many enthusiasts have modified and customized Honda Civics into "street racers." The new Si is marketed as a factory-prepared racy Civic, with more power and a stiffer suspension. However, the Si doesn't feel all that different to drive than a regular Civic: very competent but not particularly sporty. The steering is inconsistent, the ride stiff, and road noise pronounced. Reliability of the 2001 Civic has been average. The Civic Si is powered by a 160-hp, 2.0-liter Four. It comes well equipped for $19,460, including shipping. The CR Wholesale Price is $17,232.
The Hyundai Tiburon GT is not as agile as the previous Tiburon. The V6 is refined and responsive, but the cabin is tight and the ride is very stiff. Fuel economy, at 21 mpg, was the worst in this group, although typical for a V6 of its size. Reliability is unknown. With a 180-hp, 2.7-liter V6 and a six-speed manual transmission, the GT starts at $17,999. With ABS and a sunroof, the price was $20,492, including shipping. The CR Wholesale Price is $18,382.
The new Mini, developed by BMW, manages to blend much of the rakish charm of the old '60s classic with modern levels of cabin amenities and safety. It is powered by an all-new 1.6-liter, four-cylinder engine, paired with either a five-speed manual or a continuously variable transmission (CVT). The manual version offers easy shifting. Handling is extremely agile, but the ride is choppy. The base engine lacks oomph. Road noise is pronounced. Tall people will find the cockpit roomy, but the rear is very tight. A supercharged S model with a six-speed manual is quicker and grippier but rides more harshly.
Reliability: Not enough survey responses to show reliability history for this model.
This review represents our latest advice on the current model. It's based on our expert perspective, plus the latest reliability and test data for this year's model or an essentially similar predecessor.
Road test comparsions:
The original British Mini, introduced in 1959, helped bring sporty performance to small cars. Designed to be a space-efficient, economical urban runabout, it was an innovative car with the then-radical features of front-wheel drive, transverse (sideways-mounted) engine, and wheels pushed to the corners, all of which helped maximize interior space. Exceptionally agile and lightweight, the Mini was fun to drive. Over the years, Minis gained a cult following, who modified them for sports-car performance and amateur racing. Now, more than four decades later, with increased sportiness an ongoing theme of small cars, it seems natural that the Mini should reappear as a modern sporty hatchback.
Having re-emerged as a niche category in the last few years, today's sporty hatchbacks combine some cargo-carrying flexibility with sporty styling, strong acceleration, and affordable pricing. We compared the new Mini with four other models representing different approaches to the same idea. The Ford SVT Focus, Honda Civic Si, and Volkswagen New Beetle Turbo S, based on existing small cars, have been modified with stronger engines and stiffer suspensions. The redesigned Hyundai Tiburon is a more traditional sporty coupe with a rear hatch.
In general, these cars offer quicker acceleration and better handling than the typical small car. With a rear hatch and folding rear seats, they also provide more versatility than a typical sports car. As is common with sporty cars, the trade-off is usually a stiffer, less comfortable ride and a tight rear seat. Our tested cars range from $18,000 to $24,000, and each has two doors, manual transmission, and, except for the V6-powered Tiburon GT, a four-cylinder engine. The Mini and Tiburon GT are also available with an automatic transmission; to get an automatic for the other three models, you need to buy a different trim version.
RECOMMENDATIONS
Of the five cars we tested, only two--the SVT Focus and the Mini--are truly fun to drive. And only one--the Honda Civic Si--is expected to be reliable enough for us to recommend it. Therein lies the rub. When we test cars, we base their scores on performance, convenience, comfort, and fuel economy. To be recommended, however, a vehicle not only must score well in our tests but also must have average or better reliability based on our annual reader survey. That's why a top-scoring car may not be recommended, while a reliable but just-adequate performer may get the nod.
The SVT Focus is a case in point. Its high test scores allowed it to easily top our Ratings for this group. It handles almost as crisply as a Porsche Boxster, yet accommodates five people in an exceptionally roomy cabin and delivers a tolerable ride. But poor reliability of earlier Focus models prevents us from recommending it.
The SVT Focus is available as a two- or four-door hatchback. The SVT treatment boosts the car's 2.0-liter Four from 130 to 170 hp and adds a six-speed manual transmission and extensive suspension, brake, and interior upgrades. It starts at $17,480. With sunroof, heated seats, and traction control, the price came to $18,985, including shipping. The CR Wholesale Price--which includes buyer rebates and what the dealer paid after incentives--is $15,901. (All CR Wholesale Prices were effective for 2003 models as of August 2002.)
The Mini Cooper is built in England by a subsidiary of Germany's BMW. It retains styling cues from the original, but the Cooper is a new design with contemporary interior styling and modern features and technology. The higher-performance, 163-hp supercharged Cooper S wasn't available in time for our test.
Super-nimble handling makes the Mini Cooper a delightful car to drive, and the cockpit is surprisingly roomy even for tall drivers. The interior is full of thoughtful details. But the ride is a bit choppy, the rear seat very tight, and road noise pronounced. The base model's engine lacks real oomph. A check-test of an S version told us that it is a little quicker and has more tire grip, but it has a stiffer ride. Reliability is unknown.
The base Mini starts at $16,300 and comes with a 115-hp, 1.6-liter Four. With a package that bundles in a dual sunroof and automatic climate control, the price came to $18,100, including shipping. (The S version costs about $3,000 more.) The CR Wholesale Price is $16,465 for the base model we tested.
The Volkswagen New Beetle Turbo S is quick and comfortable, and the front cabin is airy and spacious. But this is no sports car. Handling is sound, but not in the same league as the SVT Focus or Mini. Reliability has been worse than average. The Turbo S includes a 180-hp, 1.8-liter turbocharged Four, a six-speed manual gearbox, stability control, and a power-retractable rear spoiler. It comes fully equipped for $24,050, including shipping. The CR Wholesale Price is $21,937.
Over the years, many enthusiasts have modified and customized Honda Civics into "street racers." The new Si is marketed as a factory-prepared racy Civic, with more power and a stiffer suspension. However, the Si doesn't feel all that different to drive than a regular Civic: very competent but not particularly sporty. The steering is inconsistent, the ride stiff, and road noise pronounced. Reliability of the 2001 Civic has been average. The Civic Si is powered by a 160-hp, 2.0-liter Four. It comes well equipped for $19,460, including shipping. The CR Wholesale Price is $17,232.
The Hyundai Tiburon GT is not as agile as the previous Tiburon. The V6 is refined and responsive, but the cabin is tight and the ride is very stiff. Fuel economy, at 21 mpg, was the worst in this group, although typical for a V6 of its size. Reliability is unknown. With a 180-hp, 2.7-liter V6 and a six-speed manual transmission, the GT starts at $17,999. With ABS and a sunroof, the price was $20,492, including shipping. The CR Wholesale Price is $18,382.
Neutral
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: pennslyvania
i had a mini s in front of me yesterday and it was a shame that we had to much traffic but for the little time that we got to play it seemed that we were very close in acceleration and handling i would have loved to be on a windy back road.
5th Gear
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 890
Likes: 0
From: Rutherfordton, NC
I apologize but I strongly disagree with anyone who compares two vehicles from what happened on the street or even sometimes on the race track with inexperienced drivers. I know first hand that a cobra replica car should be able to out lap a mini cooper s by several seconds around a race track. However the last high performance driving school I attended (which was put on by a strange combination of cobra and mini dealerships) I frequently found myself being pointed by quite a few times by cobra drivers. The level of performance that a car can reach is in direct proportion to the skill level of the driver.
2nd Gear
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
From: Tacoma, WA
Originally Posted by JeffAM
svtfocus,
that would have been VERY interesting,....I just don't know how they compare in weight.....I think the Focus is heavier, thus may not be that much quicker if any....
definately be interesting!
that would have been VERY interesting,....I just don't know how they compare in weight.....I think the Focus is heavier, thus may not be that much quicker if any....
definately be interesting!
Quickness: The mini has the edge here, mostly because its power band comes on a lot earlier than the focus. The focus starts putting down most of its power above 4.5K, whereas I felt the MCS had plenty from 2K on.
Handling: its a wash. The SVT focus has EXCELLENT handling, and the combination of the light weight 17's and decent tires on the focus I think have something to do with that.
The interior however, is a no brainer - the Mini wipes the floor with the SVT.
As for the MC, its not even a comparison - a SVT just kills it (170 HP vs. 115). I would rank an MC as having better handling than a regular focus, but not as good as a SVT. The power felt about the same as the regular 2.0L focus zetec (130HP)
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