Drove the Elise and loved it for all the right reasons. Brilliant handling, looks great, fast enough and I fit perfectly, but I don't think it would make a good daily driver. Also, despite the Toyota engine, it is after all a Lotus and I'm concerned about long-term reliability.

 

Have to agree. Drove both before I bought the MCS and again after. The Honda has no soul. Sure it responds nicely above 8000 rpm, but it sounds like a BB runing around the inside of a trash can. The Porsche is much more refined, handles better and will always outshine the S2000.

 

I can't agree about some of your Honda comments.. For one thing... Honda's refinement is among the best, regardless of price. The only reason Honda lacks a "subjective soul" is because it has no real quirks. It's design and execution is near perfect and amazing considering the price. It is a well designed finely crafted machine that can hold its own with cars costing alot more .. Many P owners don't want to admit or recognize how good these low cost sports cars really are.
The P cars are over-built and overly complex in many areas... But that makes them unique.. The soul comes from many intangable attributes that are sometimes nothing but flaws and awkward designs.
Honda engineering provides you with a NA 4 banger that is designed for the race track in a near perfectly balanced body. No quirks, no huge price tag and is totally reliable for a reasonable amount of money.
I don't see the S2K practical for everyday use mainly do to its size and high revving engine.. thats why I like the MCS... its made for the street with useable low end torque and enough room... but I find the S2K to be more at home on the track and with the right driver.... can devour cars costing alot more $$$....

 

Sounds like the Boxster I saw on a GT3's tail all day at a NASA HPDE, and all the MINI drivers who wear down the Vettes that refuse to let "a small car pass" A good driver with a mediocre car will beat a mediocre driver in a great car any day, thats why the first mod is always tightening the nut behind the wheel.

 

Sure, just like there are a lot of people that can't afford Porsches, or any other high end marque for that matter, and therefore have to claim that they're over priced and don't deliver the performance commensurate with value. Sure feels to me like sour grapes. One wonders if there aren't a bunch of Miata owners who are saying the same thing about those nose in the air S2K owners, who payed nearly double what they did.

Hondas are not finely crafted. Well engineered, designed, sure, but crafted? Do you think theres two guys sweating over your S2K motor checking to see that all the pistons weigh within a couple of grams of eachother? You think that every cam shaft is checked for burrs? You believe that each shock is dynoed and adjusted prior to the car leaving the assembly line? There's little craft involved at all. We're dealing with a bunch of robots slapping together some steel just as fast as there little mandibles can spot weld them together.
Over built yes, overly complex? Absolutely not. Thats why they are a preferred weapon on track. You can drop a 911 engine is less than a half an hour. Try that with your S2K. Porsches don't break. Thats a big reason why they're popular on track. And BTW, that awkward design you refer to is the winningest GT race car ever made.
Ever check out what the weight distribution is an F1 car? Typically its somewhere around 40/60. Whoa...whaddya know thats exactly what a 911 is! 50/50 weight distribution is a compromise, like everything else in auto design. When you corner, brake or accellerate you're transfering weight. All that ideal stuff goes right out the window.
So what else is new, this is true of any car comparision. The driver, certainly at the DE level make a huge difference. Where are all the S2K Road Racing championship trophies? Its done well as an AX car, but wheres the track wins? Oh... right its not in the appropriate class. Or might it not be that in order to keep the price down, there are certain corners that are cut such that the S2Ks viability as a professional race car is compromised?

I'd agree with you, the S2K is a fine car. Depending on your values and what your looking for Honda might be the best cars on the planet or the worst. For you, it might represent the ideal of price performance, for others it does not. There simply is no ideal here, there is variety, some and thats a good thing. Personally, I'd rather have a 10 year old 993 at $35K than a new S2k, but thats just me.

The reality is that automobiles are, just like everything else in life, subject to the laws of diminishing return. To get a ever smaller improvemtns to performance requires ever increasing amounts of money. I know a guy who has a $250K turntable. Thats right, a quarter of a million smackers for something to play phonograph records. Why? he wants things to be as perfect as they can be and happens to be able to afford to achieve his goal. You might think that foolish, and I'd agree with you, but I wouldn't sit here and say that my dusty old reliable perfectly good Denon is its equal, only that his rig seems like complete overkill. And for the street, the simple fact of the matter is that all these cars are overkill.

 

sour grapes? I think not, as a previous 911 owner, I speak from experience of ownership. I have not owned a S2K because I can't fit.
I do have a lot of experience with Honda cars... Honda does sweat the details.. their design and manufacturering processes allow them to build these very high revving engines that last. You dont rev an engine to 9K rpm's unless its balanced and built to high standards. Their reputation for reliablility speaks for itself.
You can't comapre the racing heritage of a P car to a Honda... especially the S2K since its only been around a very short time...

As far as the $250K turntable.... I understand what you are trying to say... but I am an audiophile and know the high end very well.. The most expensive turntable is the
Continuum Caliburn which sells for $112K. Then there is the Rockport which sells for $76K..

 

It seems ironic that we talk about the Porsche aginst the Mini or Lotus or Honda, Audi, ad nausium. I was seriously thinking/dreaming of giving up the Pooper for a new Exige and after lurking on a Lotus forum for a while. What car to they bash and compare to? Huh? No rocket science here, so what does that mean? Well to me its a nice comparison of a bar set high and where the other manufactures aim to. Good for them, it will make everbodys cars better in the long run, and it will make Porsche better too - to lead the pack. Anyways, another Porsche for me isnt an option but the wife gave the nod to the new Audi S8 available at the end of the year. Guess I'll keep the Pooper for the time being and enjoy it for what it is.

 

I thought that 'fad' went out in about 1999, imo no point to ever make a H22 swap over a simple B18 w/ a turbo.

Rock solid, cheap, well tested, and you're at nearly double the power output of your engine in a smaller package.

 

That yielded a lot of responses. They made a good point in that in the "twisties", HP dont mean squat and 2nd, it was an older Boxster.

However the last comments was interesting ...

"They may be fast, but they're still clown cars"

 

Its possible I have the numbers wrong, but this was my understanding. The unit is not contemporary, its a number of years old and my understanding is that there are only three of these units in the world. I frankly can't recall the name.

 

I find out yesterday that my boss just put in a Euro order for a sweet Cayman S spec'd out nearly identically how I would have colors and all.

can't wait to see it in a few months!

 

Hopefully he'll let you drive it. What a gas it was. Really a refined piece of machinery. Great car.

 

I plan on going to Porsche and test-driving one soon!