The MINI is by far more put together than any other American car I looked into before buying...

I looked into Trans Am's (especially the WS6), Cobra Mustangs, Camaro's, Grand Prix's, etc...(Just in the American Catagory), and I found that the MINI was far more superior that what I looked at. GM's interior is just cheap! I loved the TA and GP until I got inside the car, and I felt like I was in a plastic car. My girlfried even had a 2000 GTP, and it creaked, rattled, tranny was junk, and was obviously falling apart, and she took very good care of it. I can think of a lot more Ford's that have had problems than MINI's... Yes, there are about umpteen bajillion Fords running around than MINI's, but you would think that by producing such a large number, they'd finally figure out how to fix something. In my opinion, MINI has done that. Year after year, they change stuff and modify things to make the "problem areas" go away. Some may stay, but they make an effort. I don't see that with very many American Companies. They run (usually) the same car for a couple of years (hardly any changes) then re-design a different looking car to be it's new model...

You're comparing apples to oranges with the 500 hp factory car to a 500 hp 1.6L engine.

I wanted power out of my new car, but I traded it for interior quality/appeal. Something the american companies just can't offer.

I was also informed a while back that one of the designers who worked and helped develope the PT Cruiser jumped ship and went to GM to help design the HHR. American companies need to quit being like sheep and actually listen to the consumer. They need to be one step ahead of the other companies. How can a business survive if they're always one step behind

"Hey look!! New on our cars this year is AC!!" - Salesman

"Umm, it's been out STANDARD on other cars for 20+years now..." - Buyer

American companies also need to quit thinking about making as much as they can from a standard quality car... I'm sorry but the GTO was not worth $30-35 K (Another car I looked at/almost payed money for!!). It's just a redesigned Grand Prix. Yes, people say it's a redesigned Cavalier, but sit it next to a Grand Prix and you'll notice the simularities.

Does any of this make sense? Do you follow me? Good. I just think the whole American system needs to be redesigned if we're going to stay a superpower... that's a whole 'nother story...

Rant is over...:impatient

 

There is a big difference between perceived quality and reliability. Audi and VW are certainly beautifully-designed with fine materials and finish. The problem is what you don't see is what breaks. Bob Lutz said: 505hp from a stock engine was a reference to the option in post #32, because modding was mentioned and I was only pointing out the Solstice was a better platform to mod from.

 

Well, I wasn't going to wade back in on this thread, but may I suggestions a point or two.

As for the mentality requirements to make an educated decision on the purchase of any vehicle, few of us know the social-economic status of the membership of this board. To judge so may very well reveal ones limited capacity to judge at all.

Secondly, the business model of the American automobile manufactury is such that the scale influences any consideration for change and I might add disproportionally. GM/Ford/Chrysler manufacture millions of vehicles each year...its about volume. And they won't let quality get in the way. If it happens, then it happens. Throw in the mix union controls...that would take too long a narrative.

On the other hand, volume is not the business model for most other car makers in the world. They know the pie that's theirs for the taking and it's quality and staying power and yes, for some, uniqueness that gets them there.

I will never insult your intellegence regardless of your choice. I'm more inclined to compliment you on maybe making a decision I was unable to make.

 

Pontiac Fiero, the solstices' uncle
I had one and it was the worst car you could own, and build.....lol.
I would never own a pontiac again.
I came from the other side (GM) and would never go back!

-alpinamike

 

Throwing my 2 cents in, I would also have to say take a look at the new mx-5. Overall better performance then a solstice and looks better imo. Of course if the look of the solstice is your cup of tea then by all means.

 

And a really skimpy bikini.

 

Hey, Call.....this may be off-topic, but those are pretty unusual Shelby stripes.....very nice. On my '06 ds/ds, second MCS, I opted for white Shelby stripes on the bonnet, boot and r. bumper and I'm incredibly happy with the look. Maybe it's a 'Boomer' thing.....I'm 58 years young.

 

Agreed

Though I still fail to see how an Impala is more boring than a Camry...

My Mini is certainly not as well put together as GM products, you don't hear as many squeaks and rattles in a 13000 mile GM car, nor do the windshields crack from stress, nor do the brakes squeal.

My car came off the ship missing a headlight cover (causing a two week delay) and with a bad fuel pressure regulator (causing three trips to the dealer). Not so hot on initial quality, but it has been flawless since.

Of course I love my MCS because it's fun to drive and holds its value. I bought Mini because there were no cool GM cars in my price range at the time(Solstice was not out yet and the wing on the Cobalt SS is not my style). I've had all GM cars up to this point and I'd say the quality of the Mini is not as good. All the studies say the same.

Of course this thread has veered all over the place from the original topic (MCS vs Solstice). So here's my final thought on the two cars:

Base Solstice vs base MCSC: MCS has a lot more features for the money and will probably (I say probably cause the Solstice is new) hold its value better. Solstice rides and handles better, but the MCS accelerates harder and is a lot more practical. I'm not sure what base price is for the MCSC but it's higher than Solstice and has a lot more features. I'd wait a year if buying Solstice while GM works out the bugs...Of course if you wait a year you may as well get the GXP (260 hp, 260 lb ft) that does 0-60 in ~5.2 and a high 13 second quarter. If I can find a way to live with a small amount of space, that might be my next car.

 

The MINI's great around potholes - it's when you go through them that causes problems ..

 

I've owned lots of American cars, mostly GM. All were very reliable. The 98 Chevy Lumina I current use as a daily driver has given me 125,000 trouble free miles. The 3.8 V-6 is extremely reliable and quite powerful. Yes it's a boring car, by unreliable it ain't.

 

It isn't. Impala SS's ('94-96) are COOL! I love mine nearly as much as my MCS! The mighty Impala has a lot of miles, but with some TLC and some ca$h it will regain its former glory.

Any sixties Impala with the letters "SS" following the name are pretty cool too!

Rawhyde

 

Yes they are my dad has a white 62 SS 327.

 

Great car. I loved the 327 and it was quick in the 62 SS, both the 250 HP and 300 HP versions.

Had a couple of friends back then who owned 409/409 62 SS Chevys.....awesum cars.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFG9000

What could you find on google that is more convincing than JD Power and Consumer reports? Anecdotes?

JD powers, are you kidding me? Have you seen the advertising, if I was to listen to JD Power, then I would have to buy every car out there. Is it just me or is every single car “the best in its class” “the most hp” “the most rugged”. So every single car I guess is in its own category these daysI would very much disagree with that notion. Last time I checked, the Civic, Accord, Camry, Carolla, CRV and such were not exciting cars yet some of the best sellers.
I agree with you, German cars can have their fair share of problems, being a former M clubber, ive seen plenty of blown engines hahaha but, what do German cars have that bring people back to them and keep their resale value high like a BMW for example, a spirit. They have true luxury and true performance. Not a Corvette that has the same interior and stereo as the Malibu and not a Viper that that 500hp but cant make a turn better then an accord.

As far as Ferrari and Porsche, im not even sure how the hell those made it into this convo so im not really going to comment on that.

 

25K - good luck... with my options below, the final price (incl taxes) was ~$32,000...
Go with the MINI cabrio anyway.

 

Still waiting for your better links from google...
I think you hit the nail on the head right there, and this is exactly what I meant by boring--GM cars tend to have none of that. But even if they are ugly as sin, unpleasant to drive, roughly finished, unrefined and inefficient with space, that does not make them unreliable. It just makes people not buy them.

A number of people here have fond memories of GM cars with style and performance, but those have all been discontinued. Here we have the stylish new Solstice that is a good performer, yet you are blasting it for being unreliable when there is no evidence for that yet.

The Ferrari and Porsche were just to illustrate you have to compare like with like. No sense comparing a Viper to say, an Accord.
Are you trying to compare a 500hp car to a family sedan?

 

get the off-topic posts into a new thread called "Do GM, Ford and Chrysler really suck? Or is it just a hangover of cars from the 70s!"

It's just a thought....

And TonyB has been watching some early model teething in some Solstace forums.....

Matt

 

Please go here to continue the pissing contest!

Matt

 

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]Exactly....There is a real reason that GM continues to lose market share and Toyota is going to surpass them very soon as the largest producer in the world. No matter what JD Power says


As the person who started the bashing of GM......Let me reitterate my point. I did not question the "quality" of GM's ....I pointed out that the HHR and Solstice are PERFECT examples of why these cars and the company are a JOKE!....If you buy those cars yes I will look at you too as a joke, perhaps some the more "fair-minded" people take umbrage to that but thats just the truth. There are good decisions, and there are bad ones......Have you seen a yugo lately? Discussing cause and effect is the thinking man's true spice of life


Maybe the look of the solstice trips your trigger....But NEVER dare to look a miata owner in the eye because you just spent the same money and got half the car.



[/SIZE][/FONT]

 

I sat in the solstice at the Rolex 24 hours of Daytona a month ago - Pontiac had a dislpay with three cars. I actually liked the feel of the controls and the way the interior was organized, with one exception. In a convertible, I don't want to have the top of the windshield sitting right above or in front of my head. It wasnt quite as bad as the G6 convertible they also had on display - that windscreen was literally on top of the drivers head. This same thing happens in the new saab 9-3 convertible, and the Toyota Solara. The MCSC's windscreen is more upright, and sits nicely forward of the driver, giving a nice open air experience. The lack of a rear seat was a minus, but that's not the market they are after.

Other than that, the solstice felt rather substantial, and would probably be quite fun on a twisty road.

 

help with cabin turbulence...

Matt

 

well i won't say that all american cars' reliability is bad
but that's what lots of pep think tho..

for example. how many asians do you see driving american cars?
almost 0 out of 10..

why?
because in their mind, this equation lives long .. 'american car's reliability = Sucks..' . . .

some say american cars' reliability is worse than hyundai and kia now....

 

This is a mini and solstace thread. There is a new thread if you want to talk about brand qualitiy.....

Matt

 

I saw a solistce thingie on the road today ... in front of me. At first I thought it a boxster and pulled up to look closely but thought the butt was all wrong cause of the skinny tires in the rear. Up close, a silver pontiac and the front was STILL butt ugly.

Where does Pontiac get there stylists? Old Beatniks from the 50s?

 

and it looked good from the side and the front. Vive la difference!

Matt