It's not because "I don't like it" Presumably people make decisions for a reason. When there is no reason to chose something over another yet they make the choice anyway, defying any sort of logic....yes....you question thier judgement

I always question in the automotive world when style is chosen over substance. If the ONLY factor in the purchase of your car is "It looks cool" then I would say that you are still thinking like you are in High school cruising the strip picking up girls. You aren't stupid if that is really where youre at BUT If you are "grown up" In your 30's or 40's and you still buy a car just because it "huh huh, looks cool" then yes I have to wonder why your decision making has not matured over the past 20years

In GM's case all of thier products, with the lone exception of the corvette are mediocre in substance. With so many better choices out there why buy GM?

 

They tried to make a Z4 look a like.

But with crappy parts.
-alpinamike

 

I am (was?) seriously considering adding a Sky (incredibly good looking vehicle in person) to the stable but only recently was able to finally sit in a Solstice. It may be unique to me, but the seats are way too soft and position you literally sitting on the floor which is made only worse by the high dashboard. Apparently, the vehicle on the floor was a high-end model and the seats are not adjustable for height which seems like a huge oversight.

Hopefully the Saturn will be different (the dash arrangement is certainly lower) but the seat problem will keep me from buying the car. Unfortunate, as I was really looking forward to buying it.

 

keep in mind, your going from Prius (toyota, great quality) and MINI (german car, built right) to...Pontiac..GM quality....eeehh...dont expect the car to hold together very well is the only issue. Its just a fact that GM/Ford arent good built cars.

 

OK, you all got me intrigued, so I went over to Pontiac website and tried a "build your own" thingy. First off, it wouldn't let me change color from black. Second, after adding all 3 option packages, they still want $950 more for (manual) A/C? Get real! A/C is standard on almost every new car in existance!

Is that the sound of a toilet flushing I hear? Bye-bye GM.

 

If you're looking for a roadster, I'd say go with a Lotus Elise or Z4 M or the less pricey Miata, or even a used low mileage MR2. If your looking for a practical and fun car for a weekend trips then my vote goes for the MCSc because you can get the best of both worlds fun and space. I find the Sky to be more appealing in style than the smoothed out pontiac. Also I'm not sure how much your into it but find a good 70s-80s porsche cabriolet, very fun cars and IMO much better styling and more of a drivers car.
Side note:The MCS might be better around town w/out runflats (if you haven't ditched them already)

 

5-speed manual, close-ratio $0
5-speed automatic $850
Mr Lutz wanted the MSRP for the Solstice to start under 20k

so no A/C
Solstice

 

Not here. Have owned miatas since '94 and done thousands of miles of road trips, both alone and with an SO. It doesn't have 'cargo space', but it does have enough space to carry road trip minimals - with the top down! (and two cases of wine behind the seats if you're feeling lucky! ) They even addressed the 'spare tire bulge' in '99.
I can't imagine having a roadster and being unable to road trip in it! Unlike batgirlinabikiniwildtoothbrushcat, I never use the work 'string' when relating to clothing for myself, and that's a good thing.


Thx to Matt for posting the pics - I've been meaning to go look at a Solstice, but if they're doing an MR2/Elise style play toy, I'm less inclined. There's a big difference between 'cargo space' and 'functional' - unless it's only function is to tool around.

Hey, TheWrks - were you able to fit a bag underneath the top with the top down?

 

Besides no A/C, notice other things about the base car: no anti-lock brakes and... manual windows, door locks, and outside mirrors! If MINI started out this way, there would be no need for the GP model.

 

I don't know how much space is in a Miata but I do know how much in both the old style supercharged MR2 and the second generation MR2 Turbo. We took Several trips around the country, more than 10K miles each, for a month on a time.

We have NEVER had any trouble packing and touring the country in a two seater. You just have to know how to pack ... meaning that you dont bring "suitcases", the "trunk (if you want to call it that" IS the suitcase. Only soft bags and three days of clothes, all doing double duty. You find laundramats along the way. Think about how much crap (did I say CRAP???) you might need to take ... just to the Dragon never mind a month on the road .... Now throw it all out. Been there, done that ... never looked back.

Oh, and the MR2 tops chewed up the "front trunk space" so it was really just the back ... which was pitiful. It was SO bad (how bad was it) that we:

1. Instead of bringing film or tapes had to buy them on the way and mail them home
2. ANYTHING bought on the road meant a trip to the PO. I know of a lot of out of the way POs in the boondocks. Most every US town, even population 12, has one, just look for the flag flying
3. For BatCat ... Bikini? One. Got washed a lot.

IMO, would you rather take some sedan or a sports car on a road trip? (although personally I think the Pontiac is butt ugly but thats one persons opinion).

One last thing, after a month on the road in such confined spaces you will either:

A. "Know" your heading for a divorce or
B. "Know" your happily married

 

Actually you're dead wrong. They do make WELL built cars.

http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases...asp?ID=2005069

GM has the best plant in North America and five of the best cars in a given segment. Ford has two cars. Toyota has ten.

http://www.jdpower.com/special/powerreport/gm05/

The problem is that uninformed people such as yourself don't know this and continue to spread the word that the cars are poorly built.

I think the Solstice looks nothing like the Z4, and if it did, you can bet Pontiac would get a lot more bashing for it than BMW. Not to mention the fact that it is less than 2/3 the price.

Where are the crappy parts? An Aisin 5 speed (same brand as the S2000 trans). Caddy CTS differential good for way more power than the Solstice makes. 4 wheel coilover Short/Long Arm suspension. Ecotec with VVT and 177 hp. Hydroformed body panels. Full perimeter frame, ala Corvette.

I'm hearing a lot of bashing here from people that either don't know, are biased against American brands, or maybe are just here for an argument....

Fact is, the Solstice is a very hot seller and is a very good chassis. I don't doubt there are problems as there usually are for a new platform (we know the Mini had them), but wait a year and they'll be worked out. GM gets one right and it gets bashed based on past perception here while the media loves it.

 

Anyone who reads Consumer reports should know that generally, Ford/GM quality is, like the Koreans, only one step behind the Japanese, and three steps ahead of the Germans/Europeans including BMW/Mini, DaimlerChrysler, Porsche, and especially Audi/VW and Volvo.

However that's relative reliability and all new cars are absolutely more reliable than cars from two decades ago, which is enough to be tolerable while under warranty.

BTW a stock 505hp GM powerplant is certainly going to be a lot more reliable than any 1.6L engine with enough mods to produce 505hp.

 

Part of my demo was to show the sales people that you can fit a "weekend bag of gulf clubs" with the top down.

Extracts from solsticeforum.com


We have deceided to use a soft golf bag cover bag. The type that zips along the side. This will allow the wife and I to pack for a weekend trip. Works well with the top down as well as up.

This is a aftermarket Company for the Solstice http://www.kappasphere.com/

http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/s...07&postcount=9


http://www.classiccarrier.com/faq.html#q0

Scott

 

Here, I got this from another forum (Focaljet). I have never driven an MCS or Solstice, so I cannot compare, but I thought this was interesting anyway.

"I got an oppotunity to drive a Pontiac Solstice today and I did not like it.

I was on my way home when I noticed a red Solstice parked in front of the local Pontiac dealer with the top down. So I stopped to take a look. From the outside it looked great except for the price sticker. Base price was 19K but with AC, ABS and the other options on it the sticker came up to 24K and then the dealer was adding a 2K premium on top of that.

Of course, a saleman showed up immediately and explained that they were very scarce. All of theirs had been pre-ordered except that the buyer for this one and one other had been unable to complete the deals so they were for sale. We talked for a while then he suggested that I try it. I think he thought I was going to buy it. (I have a good line of BS).

While he went to get the key I got in and tried to get comfortable. That is when the problems started. I am short(5'7") and fat(230#). The seat fit and was very comfortable. I like to drive in a straight arm position and had some trouble getting the seat in a decent position for me to reach the pedals and the wheel. The steering wheel only adjusts up and down(no in and out) Once I got the seat in a reasonable position he gave me the keys and said to take it around the block(with him a passenger of course). That's when it got ugly.

Maybe it was because I am short and sit down in the car. But every time I went to turn the wheel my left elbow(even with arms straight out) would hit the door panel. Twice on our short trip around the block I hit me right elbow on the parking brake handle when reaching for the shifter.

I didn't really get much of a test drive to test the handling or engine but the ergonomics were lousy. I have owned and driven a lot of small British and Italian sports cars but this was ridiculous. It was even worse than some Formula cars I have been in."

Hope that helps a little.
-Cody

 

Proof is in the photo Long skinny soft bag to maximize your trunk space

 

With out sounding "Rude"
If your inseam (leg) is over 34in then don't get it
If your Hight is less than 5'7" then don't get it

PS: my wife is 5'6" and she loves the Solstice, she has as many miles behind the wheel as i do..... 2000 of them.. and she hit the Dragon with me. so it all depends on the driver, everyone is different...

 

I love the looks of the Solstice, but I take 6-8 week roadtrips every spring and the MINI is really packable! From the looks of it, I could barely get 3 pairs of Ugg boots into the trunk of the Solstice!

 

You quite right Clo' Hope to see you at the Cigar smoking event

 

I'm co-hosting, so you'll see me! Are you and wifey coming to the Off Topic Band Dragon Jam? Please register, whether ou are playing/singing/or clapping, so we can plan the seating!

 

Done but i can't sing or play, but i can hum and whistle and clap. The Wifey can sing if she knows the words.....

back on topic

 

AMEN

 

I've been a big fan of the Solstice for nearly two years, and I would venture to guess that the first reference to it here on NAM was from me...

I feel that its smooth, countouring lines are nothing like the angularity seen on the Z4, or many of the newer Banglized BMWs...

I want a RWD convertible for the Spring/Summer months, and this looker is very high on my list. The chassis is very rigid and can handle much more hp, speaking of which, the turbo version (GXP?) will have around 270 or so. The torquey 2.4 has some very nice upside though...

The 50/50 front/rear weight ratio is very desirable, and from my readings, the Solstice will be able to accomodate some wide tires... drawing much attention from the Miata auto-xers already...

I'll wait a couple years to see how it pans-out, namely the turbo version. In the meantime, I'll continue to frequent one of their forums to keep myself educated on what I think is one of the more beautiful cars out there...

 

I agree that it is one of the best-looking American-made cars out there!

 

I would love to jump into the whole debate of American cars are bad, their quality is shady, la da da, I jump into google, pull out my links, then I make analogies of comparing a 505hp car with a moded 1.6 engine but i know there is no way I would convince you that their quality is horrible, no matter how many links i showed you saying gm and ford are loosing ground hugly and cannot compete with japanese automakers (because their loosing huge market shares and people arent buying them...I wonder why), thus closing down more plants and cutting employees or show you links that GM wants to use Honda now as their benchword of quality or saying theirs a reason american built cars drop their purchase power by atleast 35%+ the first year (and there is a reason why European/Japanese cars dont do that) but I know none of will change your mind

its like trying to convince me we invaded iraq to help the people

 

What could you find on google that is more convincing than JD Power and Consumer reports? Anecdotes?

They are losing market share because their cars are boring, not because they're unreliable. Instead of another SUV, they've finally made a car that's certainly not boring.

BTW Audis lose half their value in two years because they are so problematic that few people want them when out of warranty. I sure didn't. Porsche reliability may look bad until you realize it is far better (and far less expensive) than comparable Ferraris and Lamborghinis. With the MINI, there are no real competitors (yet) because it is a niche vehicle, so we are willing to tolerate that it is far less reliable than an F-150. It is actually astonishingly reliable for something made in England (not even Acura could manage that with the Sterling)... but it is still below average in reliability.

It's odd to see people on a MINI forum bashing American cars for poor reliability. Calling the kettle black?