Hey, I've ordered a new MINI Cooper S, but without a limited slip differential. I'm only 17 and have had to work a lot to afford the Cooper S. I've driven some friend's Cooper S's and I know it's all worth the work. They didn't have LSD on their cars, and the go-kart handling was still a lot of fun to drive. Now that I've placed the order, I'm not sure if I made the right decision to leave it off. I'd have to work for even longer to pay off the car if I got the LSD... that's not a problem, but is it really worth it for a first car? I am really into the go-kart sporty feel of the Cooper S. Hmm...

Another question/option is, can I buy an official MINI LSD after the car is built? In like 6 months maybe? Is it like ridiculously expensive to do it then? Doesn't the John Cooper Works kit include a LSD if you don't have one? The Works costs like $6000 though.

Thanks in advance,
Jonathan

 

Just don't eat the brown acid!



Sorry, that joke must be so old... I'll go away now...

 

At $500, the LSD is a bargain! There's pretty much no way to get one later at that price. If I'm not mistaken, I've noticed you post in MINI2 and you indicate you are in Florida. I haven't spent a lot of time there, but I don't think you would need a LSD that much there. You don't exactly get a lot of snow and ice, so traction shouldn't be much of an issue. Plus most of the areas that I've been in have long flat runs and you only turn in intersections. That means you probably wouldn't be accelerating much through turns, which is where a LSD is handy.

Normally I would say get an LSD. It doesn't hurt anything and can only be a good thing. But with you being under such a tight budget and your location, I would say skip it.

 

The LSD is only $500. If you can afford the payments on a $20k car, you can afford the payments on a $20.5k car; it will make very little difference to your monthly payment.

From your location and your driving habits it sounds like you can do without it. However, it may make the car more desirable when you come to sell it (not necessarily worth more, just a lot easier to sell). Plus, if you win the lottery and decide to add go-faster bits, you may end up kicking yourself for not ordering it (you can add LSD aftermarket, but it will cost a lot more than $500).

 

The LSD will never be cheaper or easier to get than as a factory-spec option. After you buy the car, your only official option will be a 3rd-party LSD; MINI doesn't retrofit the LSD, and if you get the JCW kit as an upgrade instead of from the factory, they still don't retrofit the LSD. Prior to the factory LSD option, a lot of people got the Quaife LSD, but that's far more expensive. If you have the slightest thought that you'll ever want one, get it now.

If it were me, I'd find something to delete from my spec to make room for the LSD. I test-drove an S both with and without the LSD, and there's no question they're both incredibly fun, but the LSD does add an extra kick, especially in hard cornering.

If you want to post your full spec, we can probably make some suggestions on rearranging it to make room for the LSD.

Anyway, however you decide, from one Jonathan to another, welcome!

 

Welcome to NAM!

I'd look at what you've spec'd on your car & see what you could drop to help you afford the LSD. If you decide you want to auto X your car it's a nice thing to have. Also if & when you sell your MCS you'll probably get that money back in resale value. Adding a LSD after the fact is going to be an expensive proposition. Factory installed is the way to go. Over the life of your car loan it really won't add to much to your monthly payment. If you decide to buy your MCS without a LSD it'll still be a great car.

 

I have had 3 cars in my life that had POSI or LSD rear ends. 1966 Chevy II 12 bolt with 4.11s The unit blew and I replaced it with a ford 9 inch with a spool. Not to nice in the curves , 1969 Road Runner, and a 1987 Mustang. The LSD in the Mustang stooped working after about 75k.

My thoughts are for me anyway LSD is not worth it. The car will be used as a around town car and I don't need something else to worry about down the road. I disagree about the LSD adding of resale desirability.

At your age I would have gotten it, Hell I would $hitcan the radio for it

 

I'm kinda mirroring the same conversation over at MINI2. Not everyone browses both forums, so I'm trying to get diverse oppionions.

Anyway, it doesn't look like I'll be getting the LSD. I'll let you guys know if I do, but my parents think it's silly of my to waste money on a feature that I might not use a lot in Florida. (Even though I like taking hard go-kart corners. ) My dealer also claims that I have to turn off DSC if I want LSD to work... is that true? What's the point of DSC + LSD then?

My dealer also claims, that, if I get the JCW in a year or two, the LSD is included in that package... you guys are saying otherwise. Who's right? lol

Thanks,
Jonathan

 

Your dealer is blowing smoke, you do not need to turn off dsc for the lsd to function . It is mechanical, and there is no way to turn it off even if you wanted to.

And to my knowledge the addon JCW kit does not include the lsd either.......

To install an LSD it is at least a grand in labor, plus parts. Though, don't expect a MINI dealer to do it as they are not allowed to even crack open the transmissions from what I've heard, opting to replace the whole unit when there are problems.

So basically, the $500 it costs to get it from the factory is as steal .

 

Yeah, just did a quick check online and it looks like if the LSD doesn't come from the factory, it doesn't come at all. :(

I'm getting the sport and premium package, because there are a lot of things on them I want. It's cheaper to go the packaged route.

I'll probably never race the car, but we live in Celebration, Florida, and there are a lot of fun little streets to go motoring around in a MINI.

Well I guess the other idea is, are there any tips for my driving to emulate a LSD? Obviously I won't have the extra power to kick in, but can I get fairly close to the performance of a LSD by driving a certain way? Feel free to give any tips... being only 17 all advice to me is new.

 

Your dealer is full of it. If I were you, I would drop the DSC and get the LSD in its place. The DSC is just another computer controlled piece of crap that only slows you down. Also, if you have the sport pack (which i assume you do because you talked about DSC) drop it and just get the xenons and the LSD. The 16" wheels are lighter than the S-Heavys and the DSC is just a waste. That would mean you could actually save $300 or so by getting just the LSD and Xenons in place of the Sport package.

 

listen to 1nf3rn0... weve got an intelligent one there.....

 

I live in Florida and i get use out of my LSD all the time. But again i do Autocross and thats where i get the most use out of it. But an LSD is all about getting more availible traction.

But when your buying a $20k car like someone else said the $500 will barely make a dent in your monthly payment. If you have a question about getting it then i say call up now and get it.

Honestly i would get rid of DSC for LSD.

 

Err, you're young, you drive fast. Get LSD Honestly, you won't believe the wheel spin in a Cooper S in 1st and 2nd gear coming out of corners, LSD is totally worth it.

 

Funny, and that can also apply to the Royal Grey!!!!!! (no offense to the RG owners... )

 

Do get LSD.

Don't get DSC.

 

I went to the MINI website and priced out the new idea. If I drop the sport package, I'll be buying the bonnet stripes ($100), the LSD ($500), the xenon headlights ($550), and the 17 inch S-Lite Performance Run Flats ($600). So I'll be putting out more money total, but in a sense, less money than the total cost of sport + LSD. About $350 less. I think the s-lite tires look much cooler than the 16 inch default tires. So I kinda want those. Going aftermarket to buy tires are like two grand, , so that won't be happening anytime soon.

I can't figure out my tire options if I do this. *sigh* So you guys are DEFINATELY saying that the DSC and LSD CANNOT run efficiently at the same time, and I should drop the DSC somehow and use LSD? Why can't MINI just subsitute it like I can do when I order food at a restaurant? It's the same price... I'm probably very mistaken though and am going to get laughed at for that question. lol

Another thing is, why can't I post on these boards quickly? Why must the mods review everything first? Does this ever go away once I get enough posts?

 

Jonathan,
Keep in mind a lot of people keep getting DSC confused with traction control. DCS only slows you down when you start to skid during corning by applying the brakes to specific wheels. Unless you are pushing the car towards the limit, it doesn't do anything.

I have it because it's a safety device. It's well worth it if it saves me from hitting a guardrail or other car. And if I should go to a track in a safe environment, then I can always turn it off to get those few extra MPHs.

I wish MINI didn't price it as the same as an LSD. Too many people think it should be ditched for a LSD. They are really two different items and shouldn't be compared like that.

 

sounds to me like what the dealer is saying is that the DSC would engage before the LSD comes into play. That wouldn't turn it off, per se, but it would make it negligable. I've heard otherwise, however, that LSD can help delay the onset of DSC. My own preference would be LSD over DSC given the choice, and I almost always disengage ASC in my car. I'd rather chirp and wear the tires than bog down across intersections or on freeway entrances.

As for other options, if price is an issue and the eaton is a must, skip out on the packages all together. As for options, LSD is nice although not entirely necessary. I highly recommend the cockpit chrono, and if you can spare enough for appearance's sake, an anthracite headliner and dash along with the chrome lining makes the interior feel like a $40,000 sports luxury car. Considering your age, having a fancy interior might be worthwhile, perhaps even moreso than the slight cornering advantage the diff would give you. Because quite frankly, the cuties you'll be pulling around in the passenger seat will most likely be more impressed by a nice looking ride than by a top-performing machine. And the car's capabilities are amazing, even with an open diff.

 

NO, everybody is saying the opposite! DSC and LSD can work together, but DSC/ASC can limit in a way how much you notice the LSD effect. But DSC/ASC can both be full deactivated so then the LSD will come into full effect.

You might want to look into and research how an LSD works and why its usefull before you make a decision. Its not only for bad weather.

 

Eh, I have lsd and dsc on my car. They really have nothing to do with each other. DSC only kicks on when you slide the front end by trying to manhandle the car around corners or if you're driving in crappy conditions in my experience.

If you are smooth in your input, dsc rarely engages, but in the turns you can always feel the lsd doing its job, especially when there isn't alot of grip like when it's raining.

 

Its the acronyms that confuse people...

I have pushed my mini well beyond the limit with and without DSC. Frankly, i would rather have my life in the control of my own hands rather than a computer which modulates the brakes.

And you are kind of wrong in your description of what DSC does. While it does moderatley controll the car in the case of a skid, the biggest thing it does is cut power the instant the front tires begin to spin. That function has caused me to stall into intersections before because they were a little sandy. Does that sound safe to you?

If I could change my options, i would drop the DSC altogether. As of right now, I have Ian's MINI Circuit to keep the DSC off all the time. Its just a waste of $500 in my book...

 

Thanks, well I think I'll leave my packages on the way it is, if I can convince my parents that the LSD is a smart decision, then I'll do it. The car was ordered last Saturday, so I've been in a bit of a rush to find out if I shoulda ordered LSD or not. My dealer says I still had time to order it today, but tomorrow I might not. If it goes into production then I can't do crap about it. I know I sound silly complaining about this after I'm buying a $20,000+++ car, but if I don't get it, there's really no good, warrantied, option to get it on aftermarket. If I keep this car for 4-5 years, then I'll be missing out on a cool feature.

Thanks for all the info everyone, I'll let you know how this plays out. Any extra LSD experiences you can post would be helpful.

Jonathan

 

Keep in mind that DSC is an extension of ASC, ASC will cut power when it senses wheel spin, and apply braking to one of the front wheels when cutting power alone isn't enough. You will most certainly NEVER engage the braking action on anything less than snow covered roads. This braking action is similar to LSD, since it will transfer power from the spinning wheel to the non spinning one. However, it is highly inefficient and will not provide any performance benifits. Also the braking done by ASC only happens at slow speeds (below 20mph or so)

DSC adds individual braking to all 4 wheels to stop the car from understeering or oversteering excessively. DSC also include the funcions of ASC.

LSD is a mechanical device that limits how much one of the driving wheels can spin freely. When you apply power out of a corner the inside wheel will tend to lose traction before the outside one if too much power is applied. LSD will limit how much it can spin, thus transferring power to the outside wheel. This will give you better traction out of corners, you will definitely accelerate out of corners faster and with less wheel spin, compared to a non LSD equipped car.

Since LSD limits wheel spin up to a point, ASC/DSC will not sense that the front inside wheel is losing traction, thus they will not interrupt and cut throttle as soon. On a non LSD equipped MINI with ASC/DSC, as soon as the computer sense wheel spin in one of the front wheels, it will cut back throttle and slow you down. Therefore, LSD does let you drive faster, without DSC/ASC cutting in.

***Personal opinion*** For a 17 year old, my personal conviction is that you should get DSC. Unless you're one of the rare ones that knows exactly how to push a car to the limit (done track days/autoX/professional driving training), I think having an electronic nanny there to "save" you is a good idea. It is proven that DSC does decrease the number of accidents, compared to the same car without DSC. While DSC isn't the most fun thing for the experienced driver (as you can see on some of the posts on this thread), for most drivers, ESPECIALLY younger males, it'll probably pay for itself over and over again. The choice is yours, just don't forget there is a reason why teenage males have such high insurance rates (well other than the fact that insurance companies wants to make money)

 

Riced out civic street racers?

-EDIT-

I did not want to go into a rant about insurance but i just can't hold it in.

They charge more for agree group 16 to 25 because many people in this age bracket are hormonal idiots who don't have the proper training on how to drive and don't have good enough cars to handle their inexperience and overzealous driving. What does this equal? A lot of crashes and thus higher insurance rates. The unfortunate thing is that I have to pay for their stupidity because of statistics that don’t take the fact that I have numerous hours of professional high performance instruction under my belt. They won’t even give me a discount for doing the high speed safety courses because I’m not 19.

The insurance companies could offer discounts to people in my age group but they refuse. And there is one simple reason why. They can demand the high prices because they know the kids will pay in order to drive. It is extortion. Then, if you ever end up using the insurance you pay a lot of $ each month for, your rates go up. I know they say the rates won’t go up if you are not at fault, but this is a bunch of bs. Rates will go up no matter what. If another driver in your age bracket gets into an accident, your rates go up because "the statistics say your age group is more likely to have an accident".

Uugh. The insurance companies make me mad.

Anyways, back on topic. Psionic: You bring up an interesting point. In Jonathan isn't a very experienced driver, the electronic babysitter might be a good idea....

-Blake