If I may chime in on the SUV clamor. They are a necessary evil, unfortunately. W/ 4 kids, where in a Mini do you put them?? For that matter where in any sedan or station wagon do you put them along w/ all their stuff?? Never mind the dog, or camping equipment. That brings up another point, ever gone 4 wheeling w/ a Mini?? That first pebble you drive over might high center you. Some of us not only belong to a Mini club but also to 4wheel drive clubs and yes, we do use them to go "off-highway" (that's the PC way of saying 4 wheeling ) So when we all go camping, who wants to load up the Mini and drive???? Or shall we take the 'Cruiser..
Just havin' fun.

And yes there are those that shouldn't be driving anything, much less an SUV. They are just plain old stupid drivers that would hit the side of a building if they didn't have speed dial on their cell phone and had to dial conventionally.

Later

BDMini. '05 MCS, '00 'Burban, '75 Toyota LandCruiser FJ55

 

For ALL of the above, a minivan would do the job FAR better. Better gas mileage, better acceleration, better braking, better handling. So having an SUV for the reasons above are still not justified, IMO.

Oh, but wait, minivans aren't "cool" enough? Give me a break - what is it about SUVs that makes them so "cool"? It just looks stupid on paved roads. Not tough, but pompous, IMO!

In all honesty, I only believe there are two truly valid reasons to own an SUV:

1) The need to tow something heavy from time to time, like a boat.
2) Off-roading. Note that for "camping" above, most people don't go that far off the road for camping with their family. Certainly not enough to require 4WD/AWD usually.

Now, in your case BDMini, you have indicated that you do go 4-wheeling. So you would certainly fall into the 5% category, of people who can justify their SUV. The fact is though, 95% of SUV owners can't. And if the government had regulated SUVs like CARS instead of trucks, as they SHOULD, we wouldn't be in this mess. After all, they are used like cars 95% of the time.

Of course, this is still America, and anyone can buy any vehicle they want. I just wish the regulations were the same, based upon real world type of use. Large, heavy SUVs only make the roads more dangerous for everyone else. And just like second hand smoke, that issue DOES go beyond simple "individual choice".

 

I concur w/ you Edge. I can't tell you how many times people have come into my shop w/ a perceived mechanical problem only to find that they have accidentally shifted their 4WD into 4 wheel high....oops

Later

 

Spot on Edge - vans were designed for family hauling and are safer all around - for the passengers as well as others on the road for many reasons. Very few people take their SUVs off road or tow big stuff, and even for those that do it for a high percentage the demand is infrequent and could be filled by the occasional renting of the appropriate truck for that.

My former bro in law, a police officer, knew this and managed to raise 4 very tall kids just fine using family vans and sedans.

 

Coop, it is one thing to own a SUV or truck if you need it, it is another to own one and not. I drove a Dodge RAM 1500 when I lived in Texas. Reason.... I lived on a three acre lot and needed it to haul fencing and garbage. I loved my truck. However, the trend lately is for people to buy SUV's because they feel safer driving. Sad part is that they are actually more vunerable to being injured in the bigger vehicle as well as prone to rollovers. Uninformed buyers....

Anyway, there is nothing wrong with owning anything large if you know how to drive it. Keep on motoring bro, truck, mini and all!

 

Also the prices of Large SUV's and Trucks are going down dramatically. Everyweek the price drops on them, regardless of the year the vehicle was made in.

 

This is the essence of my issue with today's monster SUV's. If everyone would just (please!) learn how to drive whatever they choose to drive, I would have no problem with their choices. It's been said already, but there are some people who are just poor drivers. When these people get in a 5000 lb truck, they are a danger to everyone on the road. Still, in the end, I defend their right to buy whatever they want, and by extension, my right to buy whatever I want.

 

The fuel consumption issue isn't a good argument against SUV's especially when comparing them to minivans. A quick check on Vehix revealed some interesting #'s.

'06 Chrysler Town & Country 18mpg. city--25mpg. hwy.
'05 Kia Sedona LX 15mpg. city--20mpg. hwy.
'05 Honda Odessey 19mpg. city--23mpg. hwy.
'05 Ford Freestar SEL 17mpg. city--23mpg. hwy.
'05 Audi Allroad Quattro 4.2L 16mpg. city--21mpg. hwy.
'05 Audi Allroad Quattro 2.7L 16mpg. city--22mpg. hwy.

in comparison to the big, bad, SUV's (all w/ 4x4 options)

'05 Chevy Suburban 5.3L 14mpg. city--18mpg. hwy.
'05 Ford Expedition 5.4L 14mpg. city--19mpg. hwy.
'05 Hummer H3 16mpg. city--20mpg. hwy.

Anyways, just some #'s to chew on. Sorry it's not Mini related, but all this shows is that minivans aren't necessarily a great alternative if gas consumption is one of your chiefest concerns. This comparison isn't meant as an excuse for misusing our natural resources, but solely placed here to show some comparison between some common vehicles.

Later

p.s. The Audi's fuel consumption really surprised me w/ how thirsty they
are.

 

thanks eVAL too on this one i guess you learn somethin new everyday

 

I appreciate the feedback and do realize that a lot of people buy large SUVs for the "wrong" reasons, bit it's a free country and people can buy whatever they can afford.

I don't think that people turn into bad drivers when they get behind the wheel of an SUV, I think they're bad no matter what they're in. Let's face it, most people have just enough driving talent to get to wherever they're going without crashing. To most people, driving is a neccesity, not a passion. A vehicle is an appliance, not an object of affection. We're different here. We're enthusiasts. We love to drive, take it serious, and truly enjoy our cars. They're not just transporatation, they're a part of our lifestyle and we devote a lot of time to them.

For what it's worth, my girlfriend and I each ride motorcycles - British of course - Triumph Speed Triples. So obviously, we are very aware of people in cars doing boneheaded moves around us that could potentially kill us or maim us for life. On two occasions (once for me, once for her) we've had close calls close enough that I approached the driver to "counsel" them on their driving. Both were in cars, not SUVs.

MINIs are "huge" compared to a bike.

Motor safe.

Dave

 

Ah, the Ford Incursion. Doing the job it was designed to do.

 

I have always thought that there should be an additional test for oversized vehicles. I think that it is obvious that you have to have better abilities to manuver a vehicle like that, so why not test them for it?

 

Commercial Drivers License - Some vehicles that require a CDL are smaller than the largest SUV's.

And here's a personal opinion sure to stir up debate, so I'm wearing fire-proof underwear:

As children, we learn that women have a lower center of gravity than men. I have watched women take vehicles through maneuvers that Formula 1 drivers would balk at, all while having a casual conversation or sipping coffee. My personal theory is that their lower center of gravity makes them feel more stable in high-speed maneuvers, sometimes more stable than what the vehicle can achieve.

This is not a bash on women, but perhaps a recognition of a physiological difference, and one that could potentially equate to a higher susceptibility to vehicular accidents. Furthermore, it's a difference that becomes more pronounced in a vehicle that's already easy to upset.

 

And/or traffic citation fees should be based on vehicle weight. After all, the greater danger you pose to others, the more severe the penalty should be, no?

 

So sorry to hear about your accident, but please don't bash all suv drivers, I happen to have both, a suv and a mini, I agree that a lot of the bigger vechicle drivers are not very intuned to what they are doing, but so are car drivers, the problem almost always seems to be that they have a phone stuck to their ear and in their own little world. I have had more close calls in the mini than in any other vechicle I have ever owned, and no, not all of them were from SUV drivers, last week, I had a car run a red light, thank god I was paying attention, otherwise, she would have slammed me in the side.
Anyway, glad the damage appears to be minimal and I hope they get it fixed quickly for you. To answer your questions concerning your insurance going up after the wreck, it shouldn't since it wasn't your fault, and your insurance company will sue her for the $$.

 

This article really made my change my mind about SUV's It's long but worth the read.

Luke

 

Funny, that's how I've always felt.

 

That's a good way to get yourself hurt. I had a friend who got runover by the driver while walking back to his bike after such a conversation.

 

Whatever. Tired argument. What if they have a gun, and blah blah blah blah. Suit yourself if you just want to roll over every time someone threatens your safety with their ignorance or obliviousness.

 

Good article