Hmmmm...I see far too many MINI's in my area for that to be true any longer. It is for many I suspect, simple a nice looking car that gets goods gas mileage and can handle highway merges nicely. Yes - there are certainly core enthusiasts out there - otherwise major sites such as this wouldn't exist, and many of the local groups would have withered. But BMW wants to make money - and from what I understand, the '05's are much better built than the '02 Cooper I had.

I'm glad BMW is going with a RWD 1 series - RWD is a very different experience than FWD, something I had forgotten over the years. I'm now driving a RWD BMW (2000 model) M Coupe. It has the styling and power I want, and it is an odd car. Love it. I didn't look for a BMW to appear rich, or try an impress others - I simply wanted a pure driving car...

 

I wouldn't be so quick to get a new Miata - the new styling is a bloated version of the original - no doubt roomier inside but not nearly as appealing, at least from the pix. Will hold off final judgment until I see and drive one in the flesh so the same thing should apply to the new MINI. I seriously doubt BMW is going to trash one of their more wsuccessful niche vehicles.

 

People are having reliability issues with both the Z4 SMG and the M3 SMG - for example the hydraulic pump is a known problem area on both units.

A poster on Roadfly had previously noted that he attended the BMW Advanced Driving Day for M3 and M5 owners. There were apparently 3 manual transmission and 3 SMG transmission vehicles used. Out of the six vehicles, the poster reported the following:

One of the SMG's had to be retired after it became unusable due to a transmission failure.

A second SMG-equipped M3 experienced intermittent tranny issues that required intervention on a number of occassions.

All three manual transmission-equipped cars performed without any issues.

Keep in mind that this was at a BMW-sponsored Driving Day. 2 out of 3 SMG-equipped M3s experienced problems.

Now Motor Trend and Car and Driver are reporting problems with their long-term Z4s equipped with the SMG. Uh, I think I'll pass.

 

I had heard that they were sold out too on one of the Elise Forums. It also said that dealers were commanding huge mark-ups on them.

Last week, I saw a brand new one for sale for MSRP on a dealer's lot in my area. As of last night, it was still there.

 

Wow...sssshhh....(whisper) where do you live lol?

 

Honda did the same thing when they released the late model Civic Si so that it would not compete with the sales of their RSX type-S. (The RSX never did meet its full potential for performance BECAUSE of its suspension.) They made the Si so lame that nobody wanted it. So instead of listening to the people who would buy the car and fixing it (different wheels and tires, lower it about 8 inches...) they just got rid of the hatchback concept for the Si and went to a new design that looks strangely like an RSX. But enough about Hondas...

I agree with what you are saying about the tendency of automakers to look for separation between their brands and models(except Ford, where they have at least 3 vehicles that look like zoom-in, zoom-out versions of each other: explorer, excursion, expedition). However, the Mini is more than just a cool hatchback with good power and handling. It is all that for 18-24k and that is the real problem for BMW and their 1-series. That is the reason for dumbing the car down if any-- you have to make the 1-series buyers feel they are getting substantially more for their money. From what I can tell, the sport model of the 1-series looks less sporty than an MCS by almost all metrics.

As for the enthusiast marketshare thing, while it is true that car enthusiasts are the minority of buyers, Mini did not overlook us while they were trying to get their new car off the ground these past few years. Enthusiasts tend to be excellent tools for marketing types. We also tend to be vocal about bad design decisions too, so perhaps they will find it in their hearts to compromise between profit and performance(all design decisions are a compromise).

I truly will be saddened if they dumb the car down to the point that is loses its character. Let's hope that doesn't happen.

 

Maybe changing the suspension is part of the plan to get more of us to buy the Works package...

 

No... not laws... more like LAWYERS. I hate lawyers. Also, this thing about "Oh they had to make the front end different due to new safety laws in Europe blah blah blah blah blah" . This here is the best example I've seen of people letting stupid people lead them into the future. Seriously, how many pedestrians will a car hit in it's lifetime? I've owned 6 cars including a 40 year old one, a 30 year old one, and a 17 year old one. Not a single one has hit a stupid pedestrian. Most likely 1 in 1,000,000 cars made will hit a pedestrian, but they need to change 1,000,000 cars for this stupid stupid rule. Seriosuly, if they want to save pedestrians, THEN GET RID OF SUVs.

 

Your joking, right? That is the absolute culmination of bad American design. It should come with one of those wooden ball seat cushions and a box of cigars.

 

While enthusiasts like the Mini, I wouldn't say that is the target audience. The enthusiasts are the most vocal but don't have the most impact on Mini. I say this because at best only about 20% of Mini owners in the US register on this board. And I would say at best only about half of those are real enthusiasts of the car. That means only 10% of buyers of the Mini are really enthusiasts over here. Add to the fact that most of those enthusiasts were early purchasers of the car, adds to the fact that they don't have as great of an economic impact anymore. When I am hanging around the dealership or talking to other owners I see in parking lots, the vast majority are from the category that the "car is cute" or for men "great looking" and that it is "fun". Almost none of these people could tell you about the Anthracite headliner, or what year the fog lights were removed.... These people represent the new customers entering into the store and putting their money down for the car, and thus contributing to the sale of the product. The company probably feels their is very little risk in modifying the product to meet these "new customer" expectations, while at the same time cutting costs to increase profitability.

 

Agreed! This Pedestrian impact law is ridiculous. The governments are trying to kill the sports car. I also hate the EPA, and their stupid "emissions" bs, along with the sierra club trying to stop the paving of smoother roads. They want cleaning vehicles? Thats what prompted me to put a "ZERO EMISSIONS VEHICLE", along with "SAVE THE ENVIRONMENT" sticker on my friends 68' Shelby GT500.

 

>(The RSX never did meet its full potential for performance BECAUSE of its suspension.)

I have a BestMotoring video comparing the old Teg-R vs the new Teg-R
(RSX) and the new Teg-R beat the old in all areas including handling.

I would not be surprised if the new MINI might actually handle better
than the current.

 

Wait... are you talking about the Miata or the Mini



There must be a lot of ex honda owners here with the number of comments I see about them. My stance is that Honda's image as a performance company was a false one, created by the aftermarket and fueled by their ability to create something like an ITR or S2000 every now and then. Their bread and butter is the commuter segment - with a vague attempt at the luxury market with Acura. Expecting them to deviate from that is somewhat futile. Every so often, and typically at random, they'll decide to bring a decent car to the US but I wouldn't expect them to actively compete in a performance segment.

The softening of cars seems to be a pretty common thing. Once the enthusiast buzz has worn off, it's common practice to bring in the softer rides, flashier features, convertibles, automatics, etc.. I can't begrudge them for trying to make a profit.

 

seems to be the way around here these days eh?

honda does have a small performance segment, and it is far bloated... maybe partly the heritage from the S500s and S600s... as well as the motorcycle imagery of the hondas have made honda so popular... especially when you consider toyotas made beautiful sports cars (mr2, celica, levin/truenos) back in the 80s and early 90s... and nowadays these cars' engines are still widely used, cheaper and more reliable and just as fast, if not faster than honda engines yet honda type r engines are almost twice the price! (im in the market for a used engine that's why i know)

back to the new mini... i dont think bmw will every made the mini into a corolla.. their 'corolla' is the 3...

i'd actually cant wait to see the new turbo.. sounds like it is going to have good potential... honestly... everyone's been arguing about softening suspension but is it that different? honestly from my early 03 i recently rode in a 05 and other than a slightly more compliant ride..i dont believe any handling trait is lost (aside from lift-off oversteer, but that's more my sway bar than anything!)

 

The biggest issue facing BMW re: 1 series isn't MINI, it's MONEY! Specifically the very low value of the dollar vs the Euro. Mercedes has dropped (or delayed until the second coming) the A class they were planning to bring here because of the terrible exchange rate. BMW has been absorbing some of the dollar's devaluation on their bigger (read more expensive) cars, but the profit margin on the 1 would become very, very thin if they brought it here now. Since the Mini has done such a brillant job of establishing themselves in the US, they can afford to both creep the prices up and "decontent" (Detroitese for cheapen) the Mini without adversely affecting their brand image. The image is afterall, what separates the MINI from a Mitsui or a Scion Sc or Ford Focus, etc.

 

You put STICKERS on a GT500??!

As for pedestrian safety - it's absolutely ludicrous to redesign cars so that they can more safely hit people! But maybe that's just me...

Oh, and the new MINI - big grill, but otherwise I guess I'll wait and see. I admit I overreacted when they 'softened' the suspension in '03 -my '04 is anything but soft.

 

All of the Mini owners I've meet who snub their noses at the new MINI because it isn't the real deal, are real jerks!! I haven't run into one Mini owner who touts themselves as a Mini-only purist that wasn't an outright a$$h0le. That said, I've run into many Mini enthusiasts who also appreciate the new MINI and hold it in a similar regard as their "classic" Mini.

 

Actually I heard thru the grapevine that the Mini 1 (and Mini 1 D) isn't sold in the states because there's no market for such a low HP car. With only 90hp, it just woudn't compete with other compact hatchbacks that have 120+ hp. People in this age want power, horse power that is. This is why the Cooper and Cooper S variants of the MINI are sold here in the US.

 

I think he meant the BMW 1-series....

http://www.bmw.de/de/produkte/automo...1er/index.html

 

Jeff - I can see why my out-of-sequence post caused confusion; I was responding to a prior post by flyboy which referenced the Miata. BTW, some of us lawyers are MINI enthusiasts and opposed to over-regulation - so take it easy!

 

YAY the Cooper will be the new Civic and the MCS will be the new SI.....FANTASTIC! nothing like a POS economy car with a turbo.....wait a sec, we had those....GLH anyone?

 

Not all of us that want a Mini and would consider themselves an enthusiast have purchased their MINI at this point. Due to a variety of reasons, I am looking forward to mine in the relatively near future. I do agree that the vast majority of those that hold the MINI in high esteem for it's heritage are already on board, and that the automatic and convertible have diluted the community feel, but that is progress.

We can only hope that if things do get "dumbed down" that BMW recognizes that there is still an enshusiast community that it would be wise to appease. While it took VW 15 years to realize this after the A1 GTI, the R32 was, albeit quite heavy, a step in the right direction.

 

I consider myself a car enthusiast, yet I'm not obsessed with speed. Yes it's nice, but I'm more concerned with the overall driving experience one gets from a car. Having said that, I don't think the MINI convertible is any less of an "enthusiast" car than the hardtop. In some respects the "open" driving experience makes it even more of an enthusiasts' car. Perhaps it attracts a different type of enthusiast, but it's not a boring car by any means.

That's just my 2 cents.

 

Agreeing with KRGMini05 ... I have an '02 MCS. Love it, has been my favorite car ever, will always be my favorite car. Just last week I ordered my new MCSC. Can't wait for it to get here and will enjoy it just as much as I do my hardtop. Every weekend when I need to go out for a ride I will have to debate which one to pull out of the garage (maybe, because of the MINI 90/10 law, I'll sometimes be forced to go hardtop).

MINI has to cater to the different tastes ... Automatic, convertible, manual or hardtop. Different people want different things, and when you get down to it, either way, its an amazing fun car.