I'll try to save some money and get Lotus Elise when I graduate from college. Honestly, I cannot see myself trade or sell my MINI. It's a special bond from driving it everyday and appreciating it everyday.

 

this is going to open a can of worms.. but here goes

the new design ill reserve judgement.. but why bmw is dumbing down the mini maybe trying to separate the market of both the 1 and the mini

as everyone knows mini was originally marketed as a premium hatchback... the 1 is the same thing... the 1 is not being sold in the states maybe because bmw fears it'd take sales from mini to bmw, and when the mini brand is doing so well in the states, why ruin the sucess

maybe dumbing down the mini so it further differenciates the two brands... therefore people who have had older minis can graduate to their own new bmws...

bmw is a corporation.. it cares little, if any about the enthusiasts as we are nothin but about 10% of their profit... the other 90% makes up the other people who arent as enthusiastic about the mini, or cares alot more about the visual value than it's heritage, or the trend of the new mini than it's performance potential...

they knew, if the new mini is a disappointment, most of us would stick with the old model and stay with bmw service, or move to another brand, but they dont hv to care... by bringing the mini closer to corolla status anyone can have a trendy car and therefore maximize profit... they will lose the enthusiasts, but do they care? no.. we are only at best 10-15% of the market (and im being very optimisitc)
sorry to say this.. the original mini was also a 'people's' car... so why bringing a relatively premium to a original 'people's car' will do no good anyways

i really dunno am i right or wrong... and im sure someone will dis me outright by saying im wrong... but no one can dismiss any theory when we are only speculating, and that we are talking about a model that's still 1.5 years away

 

Coop:

Hopefully not the BMW SMG - at least not the current one.

Read Car and Driver's (March 2005) long term review of the Z4 with the SMG.

http://www.caranddriver.com/article....rticle_id=9150

This is apparently not an isolated incident....a co-worker has the M3 with the SMG and is in the process of lemon-lawing the car. He's had the car in for service 5 times in 6 months to address almost the exact same problems with this tranny.

Having said that - I will withhold judgement on the new version until I actually drive one.

 

I honestly doubt that BMW is "dumbing down the MINI" There is no way this car will ever compete with a Corolla or Focus. People buys those cars for practicality and economy. Only enthusiasts buy MINIs. If you weren't an enthusiast, why would you even consider a MINI?.....there are far more practical cars out there for the same price.

I don't think the MINI and the 1-series really compete. The 1 is priced at the upper end of the MINI price range, and it goes up from there. Plus, I don't know about you, but I am drawn to the MINI because of it's fan-base, heritage, and personality, the 1 series has none of those traits.

IMO, the 1 Series is for wannabes that can't afford an upper end BMW, and think that driving a "cheap" BMW makes them look rich. While your average soccer mom may be fooled, us MINI "enthusiasts" see the car for what it is. I personally would NEVER take a 1 Series over a MINI. I can't comment based on experience, but I'm willing to bet the MCS offer more bang for your buck than the 1 series.

 

Leave the future MINIs for the future, get out there and motor in the cars you love, stop worrying about the cars that are coming.

Just my .02

 

true partly.. but dont you think that enthusiasts may have already gotten their minis? if a person truly wants a mini they would've gotten it sooner, or at least a majority of people wno wants a mini for it's heritage would've already gotten it...

have you notice alot less wavers since mini became more... universal with automatic trannies? have you notice alot more idiots driving minis just because it is 'the trend'?

true that most people do not buy the mini for practicality... but dont you even agree that some people may just buy the mini just because it is the newest fad? knowing little, if any about it's past?

as i said before... we are discussing about a car that's 1.5 years away... i take magazine articles with a grain of salt... alot of them are merely marketing blobs that goes nowhere but boost sales.. until i drive the new 07s and compare to my early 03.... i'd reserve judgement

 

I agree. I am slightly worried that my new '05 MCC will be out od date so soon, but I really can't think of anything I'd WANT changed on the current MINI, so I'm not too concerned.

 

Whoa. I definitely disagree with you there. Your reasoning, though, is exactly why BMW isn't bothering to sell the car here (I don't really buy the argument that it would compete with the MINI). People in this country have a tendency to equate small cars with crappy cars. Why would anyone drive a 1 series when they could afford a 3 series, you ask? How about if they want a serious driving machine, but prefer a small, nimble, efficient car instead of the bloated hulks that the rest of BMW's models have become? The MINI is just too small for some folks, and I think the 1 fills an important gap, now that the 3s are as big as freaking Accords. I wouldn't take a 1 over a MINI either, but I'm sure it's a great car. Part of any nice car's demographic is people who think it'll make them look rich, studly, youthful, whatever, but that doesn't mean the cars don't have merit.

 

Yes, I'm sure you're right. I'm even guilty of that a bit. I first fell in love with the styling, then fell in love with the rest of the car.

Believe it or not, like 4 or 5 people have told me that they thought MINI was just a new division BMW started up, and they had no idea that the car had a history. I was like are you kidding?

So in a way, I see what you are saying. As much as we'd like to hope it's not true, you're probably right.

I still don't see BMW ever dumbing the MINI down enough to compete with the Corolla crowd though. The Corolla is the complete opposite of everything the MINI stands for.

 

That's not SMG II, so in theory that holds no value. :smile:

 

I realize it is a different animal, but when the Maxima went from a multilink rear to a solid beam in 96 the car continued to perform well. Since handling is the the MINIs main attraction, this change is defanitly a concern, but I agree that we shoudl reserve judgement until someone gets their hands on a real car.

 

Yeah, you're right...I guess I should give the car some credit. It IS nice looking for starters.

 

Especially compared to the last "cheap" hatch that BMW sold here. I forget what it was called, but it looked like a regular 3 series from the front, and like a Ford Aspire from the rear! I'm not a fan of BMW's latest designs overall, but the 1 looks pretty good.

 

Okay, having owned an two e36s, I don't know if I totally agree with this statement quite so much, but, please understand, I raise this objection in the friendliest possible terms :smile:

I really think that the e36 (and the e39 5 Series) was the absolute pinnacle of refinement and roadfeel. Everything was in perfect balance. You had a car that was equally exciting to drive as it was comfortable as it was stylish as it was reliable (the last, while not totally "Honda" grade, was pretty dang good anyway). Every aspect of ownership satisfied. The e46 3 series was the beginning of bigger, more refined, BUT at a compromise to performance. The #1 complaints about the e46 that I remember was steering and body role.

The current e90 3 series explodes the envelope. It's needlessly complicated, too big, too heavy, too powerful, and VERY ugly.

True, BMW sales are up, but I certainly didn't buy one of their cars, even though I can afford one. I just have no interest anymore. I really think that BMW is trying to attract more Lexus buyers who are more interested in bling than anything else.

I'm just pleased that there is something like the MINI out there. It there wasn't, I'd probably just starting modding my current e36.

 

Yes, I know exactly what you are talking about...hideous!

BTW...Does anyone else think the current MINI is styling perfection? I think it's one of the most perfect/balanced looking cars on the road. Im not sure exactly who played the lead role in the design of the car, but they did an awesome job. I wouldn't change a thing.

 

there is not a good stigma for small cars here in the USA unlike other countries. BMW has a reputation over here as a premium brand. if they sell a compact car like the 1 over here it will erode the way BMW is viewed. they played it safe separating the MINI brand and the BMW brands. that way if it failed or was not accepted it would not hurt the BMW branding. but all those stuffy people that buy their $100,000 7 series dont want some young poor punk driving around a 1 series with the BMW logo on it. so in order to keep their branding here the 1 will not come over here. at least as long as larger means better.

on the other hand i find myself never wanting to own another car other than my mini. i would LOVE the thought of when it hits its end of life (sooner than i thought because im putting 30,000 a year on it) i would be able to buy another 2005-2006 mini with the tritec engine. i love this engine. love it. so its hard to enjoy the car knowing that it might be my last. not because i want it to be but because it will never be the same as it is right now. the 2005-2006 might be the best run the MINI will ever see my friends.

 

My friends tell me my MINI is a machine,not a regular car.I like that

 

I agree, and that's why the new big *** grille is so upsetting. Apparently it's more or less a necessity due to these new EU pedestrian regs, but I just don't see how it can be incorporated into the current design without upsetting the perfect balance of the front end's look.

I'm actually in the crowd that thinks that the supercharger's hood scoop also upsets that balance, but that's a discussion for another thread...

To me, the style changes that the MINI has already undergone seem to boil down to mucking with the design just for the sake of mucking with the design. God forbid BMW actually sell a beautiful car for four years straight without messing with it. Look how little the classic Mini evolved over 40 years!

 

as someone already pointed out, to the enthusiasts they are very different, but to everyday consumers a car is a car and if BMW made the MINI practical enough everyone would want one because it's so popular (for now at least). Also the corolla and the MINI represent the exact same thing to their respective parent companies, profits, the more the better. Although they can't really compete due to pricing, I'm sure if they dumbed the MINI down there will be a lot of new buyers looking for that extra space, softer ride, and usable cupholders.

MO, it's gonna be a real sad day when the MINI gets messed up, especially the suspension. I'm already angry that they softened it up and I actually did plan on getting another MINI , but I may have to rethink things and get one before the turbo comes in if these things are true.

if worse comes to worse, I'm gonna look for a car that is all about driving, where practicality means nothing, thereby ensuring that all the owners are true enthusiasts. There's just something about an enthusiast community that hits the spot.

 

There was a big to-do when Honda changed their suspension on the civic also. It was considered the beginning of the end, but it wound up being better than the previous version.
On a side note, I am looking forward to a turbo on the MINI. We have owned 3 VW's with the 1.8t and that motor is impressive. They are cheap to make very quick too. Before you pass judgement on turbo motors, take a ride in a "chipped" VW.

 

I couldn't disagree more. I see the 1-series as a return to BMW's glorius past of smaller, RWD cars like the 2002 and E30 3-Series.

Whether or not the 1-series will deliver, only time will tell... But the idea of a RWD, 6 cylinder, Civic-sized BMW has me anxiously awaiting it's arrival. And if it's as good as I'm hoping, I will trade my Mini in on one.

Also, as far as I know, BMW *IS* planning to sell the 1-Series here

 

yes, they did. you don't have to change an existing front end unless you are undertaking a "major" redesign. they could have grandfathered the whole front end forever if they didn't redesign it..................

 

The Elise, as I understand it, has sold out until 07 when they too get a "redo". Many have been reserved by brokers who will demand very high prices. The Elise guys are having consternations much as we are regarding upcoming changes.

 

Right you are!
Tomorrow is a projection I can't afford to entertain today.

 

Are you referring to when honda switched to front struts on the Civic/RSX platform? If so, it sucks... it has always sucked, and if you've ever had both cars on track you'd know why.

As for the multi-link... I couldn't care less. There are plenty of rear suspension designs that could perform just as well. Softer? does it really matter that much? Look how many of you have changed the suspension on your cars. How much could you really have liked it? Don't assume that the new design will automatically offer degraded handling.

Bigger grill? I'll wait until I see it to comment.

More unpainted plastic? -- this is my main complaint. I hate unpainted plastic on cars. It's lazy and cheap. "Proper" would be integrating the shape into the metal. Acceptable would be painting it. Embracing the cheapness by making it larger is just well... sorry.

---------------

Regarding the 1-series... I wish they would bring it here. I'm not sure that it would sell, but there ARE people who would buy them that weren't just 3-series wannabes. My theory is that the european companies have built up their luxury images and are scared to degrade that with anything "common".