All hail MINIclo for keeping this on track. The addition of an auto S is obviously one of the biggest changes to come from MINI and there are many of us out there who are checking this thread several times a day to catch a glimpse at a serious review. Its a pain to have to wade through the endless banter of those who feel the need to "lash out against with BMW". Go find some other thread to bother and leave this one to those who have something more informative to say on the subject

 

I'm no purist. People are free to choose what they want, I was just giving my opinion coming from a Manual S to an Auto S, which is probably null, because I've been driving manuals from day 1.

Now how does the Auto S compare to other sequential autos?

 

This thread really affirms my faith in mankind. We can all get along. It's so beautiful to witness. I mean... Sniff... Sorry, I need to take a minute here... Sniff...

 

You are correct. He wouldn't give John Cooper a car to work on. JC had to get one by alternative means.

 

Interesting. What was Issi's issue the concept of the Cooper S?

 

Don't quote me on this, but I think it was just so far away from his concept of why he built the MINI.

The original was built in reaction to the oil crisis that was going on at the time. The British were buying up small cars made in other European countries by the handful. The British cars that were competing at the time were actually closer to motorcycles with a frame on them than actual cars. Many of them actually only had 3 wheels (two in the rear, one in the front). Some of these were still being produced when I lived in the UK (I think I remember one model being called the "Robin"). I. wanted a British car that would compete with those other European cars for this market. It was probably as much of a national pride issue as a supply and demand one. I. has been described as a pretty eccentric fellow, and had definite ideas of what was right and wrong. Still, it got him knighted, so he couldn't have been all that bad.

This is all coming from memory though, so I could be full of it.

 

What do you mean, how does it compare to "a" sequential manual in auto mode? or how does it compare to other various forms of automatics with manual shifting modes (Steptronic, Tiptronic, etc)

My old E46 M3 w/SMGII was finicky once BMW reflashed the software, clunky around the streets at city speeds but helped by doing various tricks to help revmatch the engine. At the track, SMG was great fun.... Auto mode was useless, I only drove it in "S5" on the street.

How does the Auto MCS drive? That is what people are really hoping to read in this thread, myself included.

The nice thing the paddles do with a steptronic, with my experience of reading people with normal 3-series E46's retrofitting the E46 M3 SMGII steering wheel, is that the responsiveness to shifts is much better, for instance double downshifting for a slower corner.

I'll let you know when I get the '05 replacement MCS next month. Blasphemy!!!

 

The Auto S will be great for those that refuse learn to drive stick or physically can't drive stick. But I'll say it again. You'll lose some of the dynamics and performance, that makes the "S" the "S".

Now, being British, I didn't know a single person that drove an automatic in the UK. I would love to know why automatics are so popular here, but not in Europe.[/QUOTE]


Thanks for an interesting observation. Perhaps someone on NAM knows the proportion of automatics versus manuals in Europe or the UK versus USA and elsewhere. I wonder if the ratio changes according to GDP per capita, or cars per 1000 people, or cost of fuel vs. other basics, or average engine size/power, or number of TV stations.

When I bought my first BMW (4 door sedan) I opted for a manual transmission. At that time (1975) BMW claimed that 70% of their cars sold in the USA had manual transmissions. It was already difficult to get a manual transmission in a Mercedes sedan. The vast majority of cars sold in the USA then had automatics (as is true today). I wonder what the proportion of automatic transmission cars BMW sells in the USA now--I bet it is the reverse of 1975.

It's probably a complex answer. Being a simple person I would guess average engine size/power as the most important direct factor. Cars in the USA tend to be more powerful on average than cars in the UK so the drain on power of an automatic would not take as great a toll (nor affect economy as much). With the ongoing USA quota on the numbers of imports allowed we tend to get the bigger and more luxuriously appointed models from each maker. That limits our choice at the bottom end and reduces the number of manual transmission options.

This has been a guess by someone who does not know, but used to be an English major (so I love to type).

Best wishes.

 

Just found this little tidbit from a recent Frost & Sullivan report. No numbers on Europe, but they quote an 88% penetration of auto transmission in the NA and Japanese markets.

.................................................. .............................................
As vehicle and component manufacturers continue to develop new automobiles, the clutch pedal and gear lever are slowly disappearing from their product offerings. Automatic transmission is a step in this direction, making driving easier by eliminating the clutch pedal and simplifying the gearshift pattern. Today, automatic transmission has several improved features such as lock-up torque converters, increased number of speeds, and electronic controls.

Although automatic transmission is almost the default powertrain configuration for vehicles sold in North America and Japan, with a market penetration of around 88 percent (as of 2000), it has not impressed the relatively more sophisticated European consumer. Overall, the European market is dominated by manual transmissions, although automatic systems dominate the top end of the market. This is evident, despite vehicle manufacturers offering five-speed automatic transmissions in their European vehicle models, while providing only four-speed transmissions in their North American counterparts.

 

And this from the summary of another research report dated June 2004.

.................................................. ....................................

Of the three main vehicle markets of the developed world, Europe remains unique in that nearly 80% of passenger cars are sold with manual transmission.

 

IMO i do not think this is good for MINI motorers, this seems like a way to make it like a normal, almost a bland car. Ie Saturn etc. Now anyone who wants a enexpenisve economy car can but it, they wont use it for fun Motoring but for just "getting around", Whell looks like 300,000 more MINI drivers who dont even wave. I mean I remeber in 2002 when we got the 96th MINI Cooper pw/b, everone looked at it, not anymore, its been almost so common its just "Oh a small economy car, how cute". Well i better stop before I start rambling.

liljack and matchbox

 

Too late.

 

I don't know for sure, no studies or facts here, but I grew up in Europe (my mother is English, Father is American. They retired over there so I visit) but I think two factors really contribute to the manual dominance over there.

1) It's just the norm. I was trained (notice I say trained, not taught...something that is VERY different in the UK is how hard it is to get your license) on a manual. Nobody even offered an automatic, and it didn't even cross my mind to ask. I seem to remember being told at one time that the law even said that if you got your license with an automatic, you were not licensed to drive a manual transmission. It's just the way things are done over there. I never drove an automatic until I got to the states when I was 20. Despite my comments above, and in contradiction to my recent purchase of a MCSA, I remember the first time I drove an automatic thinking that it was like a toy car, and that it wasn't "really driving".

2) Petrol is VERY expensive over there. My father fills up his 318 (a four cylinder BMW that is not offered in the states anymore, or I may have bought it instead of the MINI) for about $100. Autos get less gas mileage. Plain economic decision to stick with a standard. This would seem to jive with the comment above that says that high end, expensive cars in Europe are the ones that you find the automatic trannys in. If you are rich, you wouldn't have to care about the loss in gas mileage as much.

Like I said, just thinking out loud.

 

This review just showed up on mini2. Longest one I have seen yet. This guy sure did like it.

http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthrea...98#post1354798

 

as a tuner, a true automobile enthusiast, and a former owner of a "really fast automatic" as I had to tell everyone who complained about my last car, I am compelled to state the following:

well.... so much for the Cooper S being categorized as a sports car....

FOR: There are very few, if ANY true sports cars that are automatic.
AGAINST: The automatic Toyota Supra turbo, while not modified, was actually quicker in the quarter mile than it's 6 speed brother.

FOR: The MCS was (prior to MINI chopping off the valuable clutch pedal) a DRIVERS car, built for holding throttle around turns and the ability to blast out of them and powershift into the next gear.
AGAINST: BMW's latest M5 is only available in SMG trim, is it not a sports car any longer?

I could be at this all day and all night - I've driven a lot of FUN, FAST cars without clutch pedals, including the Ferrari F355 with F1 tranny. Does that mean it wasn't a real sports car because the driver had no control of how slowly the car could downshift.... in my opinion, ABSOLUTELY.

I bought my MCS with a few statements in mind when placing my deposit:

1. I was buying a car with forced induction.
2. I was buying a car that had some attitude.
3. I was buying a car that wasn't like the 3 billion Honda's I used to see while driving the Honda I sold to buy this car.
   
4. I was buying a car with two REAL seats and two FAKE seats that were promptly removed and sold.
   
   
5. I was buying a car that could take turns faster than a Porsche 911 GT2.
   
   
   
6. I was buying a car that was only available in 6 speed trim, because it was a REAL DRIVERS CAR.
   
   
   
   

Now. If you disagree with me, enjoy your family car. I agree with everything my new pal littlehandegan said, and in case you didn't know, Jack is 14 years old and has more sense of what a drivers car should be than Jack Pitney did when he allowed MINI to produce an automatic S.

End of rant, you can now agree or disagree, but I've made my point.... double thumbs up to that!

 

XAlfa has every right by saying that the MCS is no longer a sports car - if you disagree with that, then that means you think like those that wrote the article in Sport Compact Car magazine titled "Hot Hatches" a few years back (I tried to find the article, but failed - if someone can, that would be GREAT). In it, they compared the MCS to the Ford Focus SVT. The MINI beat the heck out of the Focus in just about every category.....

....and the Focus ended up winning the shootout. WHY? HOW? I read the reasoning for it, and they stated, in SPORT COMPACT CAR, that the Focus wins because it has more interior volume, you know, to put stuff in. Hypocrits, they were, and I promptly cancelled my subscription and ordered the MCS I love and drive everyday.


If this is you, you most certainly should not be driving a vehicle on a public road. "Hang up and drive" is one thing (FACT: only 1% of all driving accidents are caused by a person engaged in a cellular phone conversation - think about how many of the 99% were driving automatics where they have LESS to think about on the road!), but that is INSANE if anyone were to do so many things driving. I purchased a BlueTooth enabled phone for the SOLE purpose of having my phone in my pocket, my headset on my ear, my head straight up, and my eyes on the road while driving my wonderful little car.....