First, I know it's stupid, and I have to make up my own mind.
That being said what would the peanut gallery do?

Used '04
$22K, 22k miles 3 pkgs, leather, Nav, aux guages

If buying new I wouldn't get nav, leather, 17s or xenons, to spec would be $26K

'04 Pro
dream color (IB), broken in, more goodies, fewer $

'04 Con
used, indeterminate history, alloy dash vs. desired anthracite, no LSD

'05 Pro
LSD, +7HP, gearing, more storage

'05 Con
More $, HB good, but not as good as IB, fewer goodies

So I end up with a 'discount' of ~$0.18/mile for the used one, my favorite color, but not favorite dash (paint it? swap it?), nice goodies that I wouldn't pay for (leather, Nav). I've never bought a new car, so the 22K miles don't bother me, but I might miss the LSD and the gearing. I've got a portable nav, but built in is nice. I wonder if the xenons will be reliable (and at $500 a pop, that's a big question!) Total price isn't an issue - I've got the $ (but I'm cheap.) Either way gets me out of my 190K '85 CRX that I can't bear to 'invest' $ for cosmetics (or mechanical, for that matter!:smile: )
The floor is open - comments, please!

Get the new one!

I was about to buy a used one but got what I wanted for about the same money!

You will be happier knowing that you broke in the car and they are your miles. Not someone else tearing up the car. Now I know you still have warranty and maintanence that covers wear and tear but is it that much more for you in the end?

The price does seem good so it is up to you

Reading all the downsides of Leather, I would say no, especially since it is used leather.

Go new, but bump up to xenons in a package, it is worth the package price!

The used '04 MCS sounds nice but it has way too many miles for a 2004. I would negotiate at least $500 off the asking price for excess mileage.

I'd get the '04 just because of the CLOCK on the 05. (They fixing that soon though)

Wow, tough call! If those are mostly highway miles, it's not too high, IMO. I think you will want the LSD and the new gearing, though. Hyper Blue and the Purple Haze colors are awesome!


Clover

True, but miles are miles regardless of how the previous owner piled them up. Assuming that used '04 MCS was one of the first 2004s built, then that car is around 15-16 months old (Same age as mine), so the "acceptable" mileage range should be around 15K-18K miles. Anything above that, should be used as "leverage" to bring down the asking price even further.

If Eric can land that car for around $21K, I'd say that he is taking up on a great deal.

Also another reason to go used is if the person can get that MINI for much less than a new one, don't mind foregoing the "new car smell" and generally don't mind missing on the 2005 improvements.

It is really difficult to determine what alternative is best in each case. Sometimes used gives a financial advantage because someone else already took a hit on depreciation (If such thing really exists on a car that holds its resale value as well as MINI) and there is the likehood you can get a car generously optioned for substantially less than a new one.

But if you are partial to the new car smell, full warranty, doing the break in routine yourself and getting all the bells and whistles of the new year, then the choice is clear...buy new.

I forget, so where is the clock on the '05 now - in the tach?
Are the '04's still on the headliner in front of the sunroof? I kinda like that spot once you get used to it (have driven a friend's a bit.)

Clo, I'd be impressed if someone could drive 22K city miles in a year!!
I thought I was gonna like BEPH, but alas, I still prefer the blues. IB/W makes me drool.

BTW, all pricing includes shipping/travel - why are all the good deals on the East Coast? This only adds to the quandry - if I bought an '05 I'd do a (leisurely) Fall road trip back across the US (screw the $2500 local markup!), whereas now would be a four day sprint dodging icebergs. If I got it now I'd probably just ship.

edit: Yea, Coop4us, if these cars really did depreciate, I'd already have a used one. Been waiting around for years (always said I'd never buy a new car) but the used prices make it such that buying new is almost a better deal!

Eric, the '05s still have the clock relocated to the LCD odometer readout in the speedo. Most of the time it is hard to read. All 2004's to my knowledge have the LCD clock mounted high up in the headliner.

There has been some talk about MINI reconsidering moving the clock back to its former place, but I have no idea how the plan to do this, because in the '05s the space previously occupied by the clock up in the headliner is now taken up by the LCD ambient lights and the dual read/map lights.

To me the best reason to go to a new 2005 MCS is the gearing improvements and the added HP and torque. the car does feel much more lively in the low end, but some people tell me that the '02-04 MCS are faster in the top end than the '05s because of the gearing ratio changes made specially in the upper gears. Unless you race the car at triple digit speeds, I don't think under most normal driving you will never notice this.

To me personally, I find the increased low end and more get up and go one of the main atractions of the '05 MCS.

Tough choice man.

The clock is not that bad. I am sure it is worse when you are expecting it to be some where else.
I have put 15,000 miles on my 05 and have loved every minute. I like the new gearing quite a bit compared to the Few 04s I have driven.
Just wanted to say that bad clock placement should not be a big consideraton when buying a car. The side sun block thing and passenger "oh sh**" handle should be taken into account if you are getting that nit picky (both of which I love and missed greatly while driving/riding in the 04)

Bah just flip a coin :smile:

Well , I know someone who faced the same thing and got a a fully loaded 03 and loves it. The leather is perfect (and wearing just fine, you just have to be sure not to rub your butt on it getting in and out, condition it at some point, and it will be good) and the added options like Xenons, seat heaters, nav, added gauges, etc are all enjoyed.

As for the Xenons, well I've had them on my 3 series for 5 years and they have been fine. Replacement bulbs are not very expensive should one go out anyway. You can replace the dash but I do not know how involved it is.

Its all about what you like - as for me I like the options.

Best of luck

unless you can get the 04 for under $20K, go 05. I just traded an 04 for an 05 and love the new car. Nicer features, quicker, and only $22K with premium. I like the leatherette. Look & feels good, less worry & maintenance.

I looked at a couple of used ones that were about 2 years old and 15-25000 miles on them for $22500 and I only paid $23890 for mine granted I didnt get the NAV but that was about the only thing that was the difference between my new one and the used ones, Oh yeah mine has leatherette and the other ones had leather but that is a hell of a trade off for about the same price and Peace of Mind knowing I have a full warranty and the experience of purchasing at a Mini dealership is like no other because they make you feel like your car is their biggest sale and you get to drive it off the showroom

How much did you get for your '04 MCS trade in?

The 2005's rock and the gearing/horsepower changes have been duly noted. The only advantage to the 2004 is a little savings and the EB, but when you order you get exactly what you want. The only downside to the 05 is the horrific wait as your baby goes down the assembly line and then crosses the Atlantic. Mine somehow missed the big 4 hurricanes and made it safe, but I never thought I'd be so fixated on the Atlantic shipping lanes.

You'll have no regrets if you go new, you may always wonder if you go 04 and the savings are not enough in my humble opinion.

Lovin' my '05,
Mike

Be happy you have so much choice! I was determined to buy one of the ten or so new Minis in Guatemala for six months but never came up with the right deal. Two days into Christmas vacation in California I bought one over MSRP just to get my hands on it.

All that said, I'd vote for the '05 just for the gearbox.

In any case, I'm sure you'll enjoy either one but agree with the earlier posting that 22K is a lot for an '04.-

PS: One other nice thing about used cars is that oftentimes the seller will work with you on the sales figure and resulting sales tax. That and you don't pay the delivery and other fees. When you compare the new vs used its key to keep that in mind, it can work out to be a good chunk of change. I think the loaded 03 was at least 5-6k less then a comparably equipped 05 in the end.

fwiw, I have a personal rule -- never buy a used sports car!

I think you'll be better off if you call around and find the dealer who offers you the earliest delivery on an MSRP (or better) deal. Configure it just the way you want, break it in the way you want, and drive it the way you want. Then after a year or two or three, sell it to someone who's too impatient to wait.

Then go get yourself another new one! :smile:

Hey if money's not an issue... why not get a new with all the options??

Go w/ the '05 if you have the option.
The clock position shouldn't matter, buy a Casio for $5.00 at SportMart and
you'll have the ideal position for checking the time right there on your wrist.
Watching the tach is more fun than watching the clock anyways:smile:
Option out a new ride, get the better trans. and the LSD and you'll be stoked you did. Go w/ the '04 and you'll always kinda wonder about the '05.

Either way you're sailin' pretty I guess.

Later

Off topic...if I follow your first sentence I don't think I will ever get a late model p-car! I wouldn't heistate to buy a used sports car if it were properly inspected by a knowledgable technician and was at a fair price.

You've been looking for a used one for how long now? :smile: And you want to wait another three months or more to buy one in a color you aren't as happy with?

Have you driven the 05 car and compared it to the 04 to see if the difference in hp and torque makes that much difference to you. LSD is nice but do you have it in your CRX and want or need it for your next car? Plus, did you add in the extra in sales tax you be paying if you bought it new?

You mentioned that you were flying out and driving the car back. Did you price out the wear and tear of the driving the car back? ie gas and depreciation for the added miles and the added exposure to the elements on the highway?

Xenon bulbs are designed to last the life of the car..and if they don't it's about $125 or so a bulb. I am not sure where the $500 figure came.

Either way, I've played the devils advocate. Good luck!

No brainer Eric-- go for the 2005. It's simply a more refined and powerful car straight out of the box. No brainer. Jimbo

Thanks for all the replies!

re: clock - not a big issue for me. :smile:

re: new with all options - I could afford to do it, but leather isn't worth the $, I've got a GPS so I'd go chrono-pack (I like the speedo in front of me), I'd rather have x-lites (lighter), and I don't know that xenons are worth $500 to me. (remember, I'm cheap!, which is why I can afford to buy one. )

meanboy,
I've driven both '04s and '05s, but not back to back.
I did the same waiting game for my '91 miata - it's tough, but lucrative. (and leaves a shiny object out there to reach for, or maybe I'm just a masochist . Even the wife is saying 'just buy one already!')
No LSD on the CRX, or on the supercharged miata, and it shows on autocross (which I don't do much), and spirited mountain driving. I wouldn't pay the $1500 to get one installed, but I'd pay $500 for a factory one!
The fly and drive would be for the adventure , not the 'savings'.
Thanks for the info on the xenons - I'd heard $500 for the whole unit if it went **** up. I'm not an early adopter so expensive things with moving parts (height adjusters, washer things) scare me.


Argh!!
I can distill it down to IB vs. gearing/lsd
My head says go '05, but the IB tugs at my heart (guys are so visual!)
MINI product planners have done a great job - my usual is to buy a loaded used car, so someone else pays the premium. But MINI adds just enough cool stuff in the new ones to make that a tough call.
Another scenario is buy the '04 and then swap out in a few years, but it's not my nature - I've driven the CRX for 17 years now!
Thanks again for all the input! Gotta make a decision soon.