R50/53 1000 RPM and Dies
1000 RPM and Dies
Long story on this one.
I was a victim of the cracked seam on the overflow tank about 8 years ago or so. Blew the head gasket, water pump was shot. Lots of ugly. Replaced the head gasket and supercharger. Put a new timing chain tensioner in. Replaced the tank obviously. New thermostat housing just because. Key point is that I did not get the head decked. Bad decision but I was already out way more money than I could afford even doing all the work myself. Car started up as soon as it was buttoned back up and ran great.
Fast forward about 2.5 years and no one, including me, is surprised that I blew the head gasket again. Same place but different symptoms as there was no oil in the coolant. It was making a lot of noise and was only running on 3 cylinders when I parked it. But it ran. A friend convinced me that the bottom end was shot. This was beyond the scope of what I was comfortable with so I bought a throw away car (93 Geo Tracker) and drove it for about 2.5 years letting the Cooper sit during this time. I was working 70+ hours per week and had no time.
When I eventually got back to it, I pulled the head and had it decked. Replaced the time chaining guide as part of the top of it had a piece of plastic almost broken off which accounted for one of the odd noises I was hearing. Replaced the tensioner. Found that I missed tightening a bolt on the intake manifold the first time around which accounted for a noticeable air leak I was hearing. Put everything back together and tried to start it. The very first start, it started at a very rough idle. Lots of rattling and shaking. With the gas pedal it started to smooth out and then died. It ran for maybe 10 seconds or so. From then on, It would crank and crank and eventually would start extremely rough and the idle would start to come up get to about 1000 or slightly less and die. Before it died it would almost smooth out the idle. Did this over and over. took a lot of key turns to get it to do anything. New plugs. Same thing. New starter. :-)
It eventually occurred to me that I had gas sitting it in for almost 3 years. Drained that out (what a pain) and put new gas in. Replaced the fuel filter. Pulled the injectors and cleaned them. Checked that they were firing the best I could by placing a towel under an injector one at a time and trying to start. This doesn't tell me anything except they are shooting fuel out at some point.
Same symptoms.
Bought a cheap code reader. Throwing more codes than I remember. Map sensors being the easiest to address. Replaced both. Thought maybe I got the timing out somehow so pulled everything and completely reset the timing. Same problem. Paranoid with no one to check behind me and pulled everything and set the time a second time. Same problem.
Coolant temperature sensor code. Replaced that.
Same problem still persisting. Bought a new house in July and the car sat again until today.
Rented a fuel pressure tester today. Key to on, primes to almost 51psi exactly per the spec. Attempted to start and here is my first question. The Bentley says it should drop to around 42 at idle. The car never gets to a clean idle and when I check the gauge after it starts rough and dies at 1000 RPM the gauge reads about 57psi. I don't know if this is normal. Since it never gets to a steady idle will the pressure ever settle at a lower level? Is this pointing to a possible FPR failure? One thing I tested was to pull the vacuum hose off the FPR and plug the hose and try to start it. Same symptoms. Wherever I read that said that this is a way to eliminate the FPR as a problem. Don't know if that is accurate or not.
During all of this one noticeable item of concern is it will not respond to the pedal at all. I don't know if this is normal or not. Again since it won't reach an idle I'm not sure that the car recognizes the pedal yet. Should I get a response of some sort from the pedal as it is trying to idle up? I have considered the throttle body as the source of my problems but I am not getting a code for the throttle body. I also don't recall a code for the TPS. I am going to check codes again tomorrow. The car is currently at my in laws house and I forgot my reader today. Except for the pressure test, all the other work was done back in June of last year so I'm not sure I remember all of the codes it threw. I did pull the pedal and check the connections for corrosion. They looked clean. I also followed the pedal reset procedure. I found two different ones and did them both. I pulled air intake off the top of the throttle body and had my son watch it while I tried to start it. It seems to be responding. I also checked the spring back on the bypass valve and that seems okay. Read somewhere that you can ziptie it open and try to start to confirm that it is not bad. Tried this with the same result.
The tac is not jumping which may or may not eliminate the cam pos sensor. It is certainly one thing that I had to remove and replace to put the head gasket in. I am using a fully charged battery as well as using jumper cables while trying to start it.
Bought a purge valve today to put on tomorrow. I don't think this is going to fix anything but I am at the point of throwing parts at it in the hopes that something sticks. I never wanted to do that but I am at my wits end.
The problem now is the all of the parts except the cam position sensor that I would throw at it now are the expensive ones, the throttle body, pedal, fuel regulator, fuel pump (this should be eliminated as a problem after today but not counting anything out).
Ultimately it comes down to the car will start sometimes at an extremely rough idle creep up towards 1000 RPM and start to smooth out and then die. No throttle response at any point. Lots of new parts and things checked and still here I am.
Any ideas?
I was a victim of the cracked seam on the overflow tank about 8 years ago or so. Blew the head gasket, water pump was shot. Lots of ugly. Replaced the head gasket and supercharger. Put a new timing chain tensioner in. Replaced the tank obviously. New thermostat housing just because. Key point is that I did not get the head decked. Bad decision but I was already out way more money than I could afford even doing all the work myself. Car started up as soon as it was buttoned back up and ran great.
Fast forward about 2.5 years and no one, including me, is surprised that I blew the head gasket again. Same place but different symptoms as there was no oil in the coolant. It was making a lot of noise and was only running on 3 cylinders when I parked it. But it ran. A friend convinced me that the bottom end was shot. This was beyond the scope of what I was comfortable with so I bought a throw away car (93 Geo Tracker) and drove it for about 2.5 years letting the Cooper sit during this time. I was working 70+ hours per week and had no time.
When I eventually got back to it, I pulled the head and had it decked. Replaced the time chaining guide as part of the top of it had a piece of plastic almost broken off which accounted for one of the odd noises I was hearing. Replaced the tensioner. Found that I missed tightening a bolt on the intake manifold the first time around which accounted for a noticeable air leak I was hearing. Put everything back together and tried to start it. The very first start, it started at a very rough idle. Lots of rattling and shaking. With the gas pedal it started to smooth out and then died. It ran for maybe 10 seconds or so. From then on, It would crank and crank and eventually would start extremely rough and the idle would start to come up get to about 1000 or slightly less and die. Before it died it would almost smooth out the idle. Did this over and over. took a lot of key turns to get it to do anything. New plugs. Same thing. New starter. :-)
It eventually occurred to me that I had gas sitting it in for almost 3 years. Drained that out (what a pain) and put new gas in. Replaced the fuel filter. Pulled the injectors and cleaned them. Checked that they were firing the best I could by placing a towel under an injector one at a time and trying to start. This doesn't tell me anything except they are shooting fuel out at some point.
Same symptoms.
Bought a cheap code reader. Throwing more codes than I remember. Map sensors being the easiest to address. Replaced both. Thought maybe I got the timing out somehow so pulled everything and completely reset the timing. Same problem. Paranoid with no one to check behind me and pulled everything and set the time a second time. Same problem.
Coolant temperature sensor code. Replaced that.
Same problem still persisting. Bought a new house in July and the car sat again until today.
Rented a fuel pressure tester today. Key to on, primes to almost 51psi exactly per the spec. Attempted to start and here is my first question. The Bentley says it should drop to around 42 at idle. The car never gets to a clean idle and when I check the gauge after it starts rough and dies at 1000 RPM the gauge reads about 57psi. I don't know if this is normal. Since it never gets to a steady idle will the pressure ever settle at a lower level? Is this pointing to a possible FPR failure? One thing I tested was to pull the vacuum hose off the FPR and plug the hose and try to start it. Same symptoms. Wherever I read that said that this is a way to eliminate the FPR as a problem. Don't know if that is accurate or not.
During all of this one noticeable item of concern is it will not respond to the pedal at all. I don't know if this is normal or not. Again since it won't reach an idle I'm not sure that the car recognizes the pedal yet. Should I get a response of some sort from the pedal as it is trying to idle up? I have considered the throttle body as the source of my problems but I am not getting a code for the throttle body. I also don't recall a code for the TPS. I am going to check codes again tomorrow. The car is currently at my in laws house and I forgot my reader today. Except for the pressure test, all the other work was done back in June of last year so I'm not sure I remember all of the codes it threw. I did pull the pedal and check the connections for corrosion. They looked clean. I also followed the pedal reset procedure. I found two different ones and did them both. I pulled air intake off the top of the throttle body and had my son watch it while I tried to start it. It seems to be responding. I also checked the spring back on the bypass valve and that seems okay. Read somewhere that you can ziptie it open and try to start to confirm that it is not bad. Tried this with the same result.
The tac is not jumping which may or may not eliminate the cam pos sensor. It is certainly one thing that I had to remove and replace to put the head gasket in. I am using a fully charged battery as well as using jumper cables while trying to start it.
Bought a purge valve today to put on tomorrow. I don't think this is going to fix anything but I am at the point of throwing parts at it in the hopes that something sticks. I never wanted to do that but I am at my wits end.
The problem now is the all of the parts except the cam position sensor that I would throw at it now are the expensive ones, the throttle body, pedal, fuel regulator, fuel pump (this should be eliminated as a problem after today but not counting anything out).
Ultimately it comes down to the car will start sometimes at an extremely rough idle creep up towards 1000 RPM and start to smooth out and then die. No throttle response at any point. Lots of new parts and things checked and still here I am.
Any ideas?
Update for what it's worth. Put the code reader on it today and got a P0122 and P0222. One is associated with the pedal and the other with the throttle body. However due to the nature of them both and the fact that the TB has been off the car, my thoughts are in that direction.
I reset the codes and tried again. I put the purge valve on it not expecting anything to change. It actually was harder to get to catch than before. Not sure why that would be. Checked both main bus connectors to make sure they are seated. Checked the connector to the TB. Pulled the pedal again and checked the connector. Nothing obvious. Did the reset procedure for the pedal. Cleared the codes and tried again.
It did try to start easier and was back to what it was before with a hard stumble, smoothing out as it approached 1000 and then dies. This whole cycle only lasts for a couple of seconds. Checked codes again and had P0122, P0222, P1229, P16XX. Don't remember the last one but all 4 codes point to either the throttle body or the pedal.
Ordered a TB and a pedal. We shall see.
I reset the codes and tried again. I put the purge valve on it not expecting anything to change. It actually was harder to get to catch than before. Not sure why that would be. Checked both main bus connectors to make sure they are seated. Checked the connector to the TB. Pulled the pedal again and checked the connector. Nothing obvious. Did the reset procedure for the pedal. Cleared the codes and tried again.
It did try to start easier and was back to what it was before with a hard stumble, smoothing out as it approached 1000 and then dies. This whole cycle only lasts for a couple of seconds. Checked codes again and had P0122, P0222, P1229, P16XX. Don't remember the last one but all 4 codes point to either the throttle body or the pedal.
Ordered a TB and a pedal. We shall see.
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