R50/53 2003 Street Prepared Build Out
#76
So with a 2-day HPDE at Barber Motorsports Park coming up this weekend, I made a preventative maintenance purchase to save my A7s:
15x7 OZ Racing Superleggeras with Dunlop Direzza ZIII (200tw) tires. I'm a little irritated at TireRack. They got the wheels and tires here fast, but they balanced them using the taped in weights and they don't clear my calipers:
15x7 OZ Racing Superleggeras with Dunlop Direzza ZIII (200tw) tires. I'm a little irritated at TireRack. They got the wheels and tires here fast, but they balanced them using the taped in weights and they don't clear my calipers:
#77
but they balanced them using the taped in weights and they don't clear my calipers:
If those stick on weights were stacked, I'd understand not clearing, but clearance issues are a thing when you downsize the wheels. You can't really blame TireRack because they have no clue about the clearance, you bought the wheels and tires, it's really up to you to make sure it fits. The only option is to balance them static (inside only) and hope that there's no vibrations. I have the R56 brakes on my '05 S with the stock X-Lites and the stick on weights clear them, not by a mile, but they don't rub.
#78
The following users liked this post:
Minibeagle (01-05-2022)
#79
This link has good info for racers about tire mounting. It pertains to the yellow and red dots on new tires. Around me, its very rare to find a tire install tech that has any idea what those dots mean. They do however always mount them with the dots in the correct location if I ask them to. I mark my rims with a whiteout pen or sharpie on the back side to make it real easy on them...when I remember lol. This last time I forgot to even ask and they just put the tires on with no regard to orientation.
https://www.yokohamatire.com/tires-1...ing-your-tires
https://www.yokohamatire.com/tires-1...ing-your-tires
The following 2 users liked this post by JerBear:
Minibeagle (01-05-2022),
ssoliman (08-21-2021)
#81
This link has good info for racers about tire mounting. It pertains to the yellow and red dots on new tires. Around me, its very rare to find a tire install tech that has any idea what those dots mean. They do however always mount them with the dots in the correct location if I ask them to. I mark my rims with a whiteout pen or sharpie on the back side to make it real easy on them...when I remember lol. This last time I forgot to even ask and they just put the tires on with no regard to orientation.
https://www.yokohamatire.com/tires-1...ing-your-tires
https://www.yokohamatire.com/tires-1...ing-your-tires
#82
#83
Man... what a fun weekend. 2 days at Barber's is amazing and challenging. I'm guessing I did around 100 laps? Not an exact figure, I didn't run any telemetry and recording on Saturday because I was focusing on working with my instructor and learning the track. I did 5 sessions on Saturday and 4 on Sunday and I was getting between 10-13 laps each session. Lots of things to break down here:
The Track:
It's amazing. If you know anything about Barber's Motorsport Park, you know it is beautiful. I've spectated races there, I've been to the museum, I've run AutoX events there, but this was my first time seeing it from an on-track perspective, and it is just as beautiful from the driver's seat. The team at Barber's do an outstanding job of taking care of the track and the people there, I'm very appreciative of them and it really makes for an enjoyable time at the track.
My favorite corner was also one of the ones that I had the most difficulty getting right / fast. Turn 1. You are coming at high speed down the front straight to a blind apex where the road falls away from you. It took an entire day for my brain to believe that that were more track there than it looks like as you approach turn-in; in fact, you might be able to hear my in-car pep talks to myself in the videos. As fast as you can down the straight, brake before turn-in, set the car and then get back on the gas. That last step was very hard for my brain to want to do. The road does fall away from you, but then it comes back and when you hit the bottom of the hill you get the grip you need. It's a lot more complex than it looks on TV (or in person for that matter).
Turn 5 was interesting as well. My instructor and I would take different lines in the hairpin. He (e36 M3 with full suspension) would use a double apex line. I tried it and couldn't make it fast, so I used a line where I would ignore the first apex, and trail brake the car for the second. Similar thing in turn 14, he would straighten his line out of 14 and square off 14a to be lined up for 15. I would keep more of a constant radius, and then use the blip / downshift to help the car rotate around 14a. I probably need to work on that a bit.
I never felt that I got the turn 11 + 12 complex right all weekend. I was being instructed on the novice line which is basically a double late apex. It's safe, but I felt that I had to brake harder than I should of to get the Mini to stay on the right line. I was ok at it, but I know I'm giving up seconds of time in those 2 corners.
The kink was a lot of fun in the Mini. On Saturday, we had cool temps and lots of cloud cover. By the afternoon sessions, I was legitimately not lifting off the gas from museum until T11. Sunday was much warmer (10-12 degrees) and lots of sun. I only managed to not lift literally 1 time, every other time I had to just breathe off the gas between 9 and 10 to make sure the nose pointed where I wanted it to go.
I did have a minor off track moment. It came on what ended up being my last lap. Coming into the museum complex, I think I had too much angle on the steering wheel when I hit the brake and had an immediate ABS kick. The speed didn't come off fast enough. I got the car around, but was wide and cut the grass over 7a. No damage to car or track, but I got to go explain myself. By the time the talking to was over, there was only 2 minutes left in the session, I called it a day.
The course is a ton of fun to drive, would recommend.
The Mini:
My biggest fear for the weekend was the amount of punishment the Mini would go through and I would break something and not be able to enjoy the whole event. As you can probably tell from reading everything above... the Mini didn't just survive, it did great. I'm pretty happy with all the choices I've made building up the car so far. It didn't miss a beat. I learned a lot about how the car behaves in high(er) speed driving (vs. AutoX). The biggest take away was learning how to treat the brakes. It was in the 3rd or 4th session on Saturday I went to really try and shorten my braking distances and started trying harder stabs at the brakes later in the zone. I over did it a bit. The car was stopping, but by the end of the session there was a huge shake in the pedal and wheel. Turns out that is just how the brakes react when they get overheated. After a cooling period, they returned to normal feel. To try and describe it in numbers: 10-9-8-7... resulted in overheating; where 9-10-9-8 did not. I think some brake ducting would help with the cooling and probably solve this issue.
The Mini handled amazingly well. Through all the turns it was as fast any non-aero car. I was carrying good amounts of speed compared to the rest of the run group. The Mini's downfall on a big track will always be horsepower. Despite that I was noticeably faster than the '06 Mini (plus mods) and driver, and I was only 1-2 seconds off the lap time the 2018 modded JCW Mini was running.
The other item that is in need... seats. The factory seats are only slightly better than a bench seat. It's a lot of work trying to go fast and hold yourself in place. Speed costs money... how fast can you afford to go.
The tires:
This ended up being a really good decision. First off, I love the look of the new wheels. The tires had tons of grip, even though they were only 205s. In most of the corners I was hitting 1G of lateral load, with a consistent load of 0.9G. They behaved very well, really predictable on grip and slide. The only time I had any understeer all weekend was all on the driver coming in to hot to a corner. Even still, the tires generally provided grip enough to get back on line with minimal correction. I did notice the tires getting a little greasy on Sunday afternoon, granted it was 92+ degrees and sun on most of the track and it was only after several hot laps. Front pressures were gaining about 10 PSI by the end of the sessions and wear was right on the recommended triangles on the tire tread. I was starting at 34, and end of session hot pressure was 43-44.
I drove to and from the track on the tires as well (only about 15 miles). The road behavior was good. Quiet. No following lines in the roads. Saturday on the ride home a thunderstorm hit as I was going down the interstate. I was cruising comfortably with traffic. Granted the tires are only a few days old, but I noticed no hydro-planing or ill behaviors from the tires in that short rain drive.
The videos:
The Track:
It's amazing. If you know anything about Barber's Motorsport Park, you know it is beautiful. I've spectated races there, I've been to the museum, I've run AutoX events there, but this was my first time seeing it from an on-track perspective, and it is just as beautiful from the driver's seat. The team at Barber's do an outstanding job of taking care of the track and the people there, I'm very appreciative of them and it really makes for an enjoyable time at the track.
My favorite corner was also one of the ones that I had the most difficulty getting right / fast. Turn 1. You are coming at high speed down the front straight to a blind apex where the road falls away from you. It took an entire day for my brain to believe that that were more track there than it looks like as you approach turn-in; in fact, you might be able to hear my in-car pep talks to myself in the videos. As fast as you can down the straight, brake before turn-in, set the car and then get back on the gas. That last step was very hard for my brain to want to do. The road does fall away from you, but then it comes back and when you hit the bottom of the hill you get the grip you need. It's a lot more complex than it looks on TV (or in person for that matter).
Turn 5 was interesting as well. My instructor and I would take different lines in the hairpin. He (e36 M3 with full suspension) would use a double apex line. I tried it and couldn't make it fast, so I used a line where I would ignore the first apex, and trail brake the car for the second. Similar thing in turn 14, he would straighten his line out of 14 and square off 14a to be lined up for 15. I would keep more of a constant radius, and then use the blip / downshift to help the car rotate around 14a. I probably need to work on that a bit.
I never felt that I got the turn 11 + 12 complex right all weekend. I was being instructed on the novice line which is basically a double late apex. It's safe, but I felt that I had to brake harder than I should of to get the Mini to stay on the right line. I was ok at it, but I know I'm giving up seconds of time in those 2 corners.
The kink was a lot of fun in the Mini. On Saturday, we had cool temps and lots of cloud cover. By the afternoon sessions, I was legitimately not lifting off the gas from museum until T11. Sunday was much warmer (10-12 degrees) and lots of sun. I only managed to not lift literally 1 time, every other time I had to just breathe off the gas between 9 and 10 to make sure the nose pointed where I wanted it to go.
I did have a minor off track moment. It came on what ended up being my last lap. Coming into the museum complex, I think I had too much angle on the steering wheel when I hit the brake and had an immediate ABS kick. The speed didn't come off fast enough. I got the car around, but was wide and cut the grass over 7a. No damage to car or track, but I got to go explain myself. By the time the talking to was over, there was only 2 minutes left in the session, I called it a day.
The course is a ton of fun to drive, would recommend.
The Mini:
My biggest fear for the weekend was the amount of punishment the Mini would go through and I would break something and not be able to enjoy the whole event. As you can probably tell from reading everything above... the Mini didn't just survive, it did great. I'm pretty happy with all the choices I've made building up the car so far. It didn't miss a beat. I learned a lot about how the car behaves in high(er) speed driving (vs. AutoX). The biggest take away was learning how to treat the brakes. It was in the 3rd or 4th session on Saturday I went to really try and shorten my braking distances and started trying harder stabs at the brakes later in the zone. I over did it a bit. The car was stopping, but by the end of the session there was a huge shake in the pedal and wheel. Turns out that is just how the brakes react when they get overheated. After a cooling period, they returned to normal feel. To try and describe it in numbers: 10-9-8-7... resulted in overheating; where 9-10-9-8 did not. I think some brake ducting would help with the cooling and probably solve this issue.
The Mini handled amazingly well. Through all the turns it was as fast any non-aero car. I was carrying good amounts of speed compared to the rest of the run group. The Mini's downfall on a big track will always be horsepower. Despite that I was noticeably faster than the '06 Mini (plus mods) and driver, and I was only 1-2 seconds off the lap time the 2018 modded JCW Mini was running.
The other item that is in need... seats. The factory seats are only slightly better than a bench seat. It's a lot of work trying to go fast and hold yourself in place. Speed costs money... how fast can you afford to go.
The tires:
This ended up being a really good decision. First off, I love the look of the new wheels. The tires had tons of grip, even though they were only 205s. In most of the corners I was hitting 1G of lateral load, with a consistent load of 0.9G. They behaved very well, really predictable on grip and slide. The only time I had any understeer all weekend was all on the driver coming in to hot to a corner. Even still, the tires generally provided grip enough to get back on line with minimal correction. I did notice the tires getting a little greasy on Sunday afternoon, granted it was 92+ degrees and sun on most of the track and it was only after several hot laps. Front pressures were gaining about 10 PSI by the end of the sessions and wear was right on the recommended triangles on the tire tread. I was starting at 34, and end of session hot pressure was 43-44.
I drove to and from the track on the tires as well (only about 15 miles). The road behavior was good. Quiet. No following lines in the roads. Saturday on the ride home a thunderstorm hit as I was going down the interstate. I was cruising comfortably with traffic. Granted the tires are only a few days old, but I noticed no hydro-planing or ill behaviors from the tires in that short rain drive.
The videos:
#84
That was a fun read. Especially for a former hobby racer that hasn't been on track in over a decade and lives vicariously through people like you who are gracious enough to make detailed posts about your on track adventures. Are those the Dunlop Direzza's? Its one of 3 tires I've had my eye on if I ever get a second set of rims.
#86
The following 4 users liked this post by BradLTL:
#88
#89
Yes, so far. It's on the list to replace... just got to get there. I'll probably do either the whole suspension at once, or like 1 thing every 6 months. Just depends on how much money I can get away with spending.
#90
#91
Getting later in the year, Autocross season is quickly coming to an end. Points event #9 for ALSCCA was on October 16th. It was only going to be a half event for me. It's usually a party foul to leave halfway through an event, but I made sure that I picked up an early worker assignment, and then was there to help where ever needed during the first part of the day (ended up helping with timing and scoring).
Got to the site at 5:45 am. That was early, too early, by about 45 minutes. It was a cold, dark, drizzly morning. I didn't wear warm enough clothes.
The day was eventful. It started as I was prepping the car. Somehow, I managed to cross-thread a lug nut. It was damaged beyond repair. I couldn't run without all the lug nuts, so this was a real problem. Thankfully Mike (from the Huntsville region) was willing to run me up to O'Reily's to get some spares. Crisis adverted.
Then the event started. We had some novices, and they made some bigger mistakes than you usually expect. One Miata lost control going into a slalom and went off-roading and into a plastic barrier. That was some excitement for that work station. Thankfully only minor body damage and hurt pride.
Second run group's turn to go, and then this happens right in front of me:
I have no clue how he did that, but he had a bad day. He ripped the bottom off the engine and dumped all of his oil all over the course. He stopped on a service road, but rather than backing up on it he decided to drive through a ditch, over another curb and back on the course. He had to stop, we had to push his car on his trailer, then there was about a 45 minute clean up.
Finally got my runs in. Because of the drama with the lug nuts earlier, I didn't get to walk the track at all. I went in blind. I was reasonably fast, but over did it on my last run. I understeered into a curb and put a wheel off. Only a minor scuff on the wheel, but all in all a fairly disappointing day. Also, I think I need an alignment now.
Got to the site at 5:45 am. That was early, too early, by about 45 minutes. It was a cold, dark, drizzly morning. I didn't wear warm enough clothes.
The day was eventful. It started as I was prepping the car. Somehow, I managed to cross-thread a lug nut. It was damaged beyond repair. I couldn't run without all the lug nuts, so this was a real problem. Thankfully Mike (from the Huntsville region) was willing to run me up to O'Reily's to get some spares. Crisis adverted.
Then the event started. We had some novices, and they made some bigger mistakes than you usually expect. One Miata lost control going into a slalom and went off-roading and into a plastic barrier. That was some excitement for that work station. Thankfully only minor body damage and hurt pride.
Second run group's turn to go, and then this happens right in front of me:
I have no clue how he did that, but he had a bad day. He ripped the bottom off the engine and dumped all of his oil all over the course. He stopped on a service road, but rather than backing up on it he decided to drive through a ditch, over another curb and back on the course. He had to stop, we had to push his car on his trailer, then there was about a 45 minute clean up.
Finally got my runs in. Because of the drama with the lug nuts earlier, I didn't get to walk the track at all. I went in blind. I was reasonably fast, but over did it on my last run. I understeered into a curb and put a wheel off. Only a minor scuff on the wheel, but all in all a fairly disappointing day. Also, I think I need an alignment now.
Last edited by BradLTL; 11-02-2021 at 11:46 AM.
#92
With the autocross season over it’s time to get serious about preparing for One Lap of America 2022. There’s a couple goals with getting prepped: first, reliability. OLOA is demanding with 18 motorsport type events and then 3,500+ miles of travel between the sites. There will be no rest for the car that is creeping up on 19 years old. The second goal is performance handling. To this point the only handling update to the car has been wheels and tires. That’s a testament to how well the car handles from the factory. Even still there are some weak spots. As an older car it has an open diff. This is painful any time you try to put power down out of a slow corner. Then it’s all about maximizing turning ability and transitions.
The process started with window shopping, reading forums, and plenty of reading. Once I had an idea of what I thought I wanted to do, I called an expert. I emailed Way from Way Motor Works. He was at SEMA, but replied that he already had thought about building an One Lap Mini. We caught up when he got back. I went through my plan, and we ended up throwing out some of it, refining some of the others, and then adding in some items I hadn’t considered. Once the call was finished, I felt good we had a plan and could start to budget. It’s going to be expensive, but it should get the Mini in a really good spot for the event.
So here’s the major items on the list:
OS Giken clutch and flywheel
Quaife LSD
Megan racing coilovers
Adjustable rear sway bar
Poly bushings
Swapping to ATi crank pulley
Adjustable rear control arms
Aluminum coolant tank
ECU tune
Oil pressure sensor
Trailer hitch
Another key point of reliability is having someone who knows what they are doing complete the work. Last thing that I would want is for the car to fail because of my shoddy workmanship.
Made to trip over to Atlanta this week for Way and team to start looking at and working on the car. He called today and predictably fired me as a mechanic on the car. Apparently my work on the water pump was less than stellar. The hoses were hanging on by a thread and I had the clamps in the wrong places. He also discovered several seals that needed replacement. And then the M7 pulley. Based on how the belt was hitting on the other pulleys, he’s guessing it was machined incorrect. Other than those items, he gave the car a good review. He was happy it was a good base to build from and all the trouble areas we would address.
Work has already started on the Mini. Depending on when some of the parts arrive, I should have the car back in a couple weeks.
The following 3 users liked this post by BradLTL:
#93
#94
#95
I know the concern. I've read all the threads on here and a few other places with the same content and then follow on flame war. I certainly understand the physics (at a normal person level... not an engineer), but 2 things lead me to my choice to go with the lightweight pulley:
So far, it's been great. Which I suspect will be the case right until it's not. I'm not sure if the belt and tension issues above were related to the parts or the terrible mechanic doing the work. So all I can do is share my experience.
- This is not a daily driven car. It is a fun/project/race car. So, I have a measured risk if something does go wrong.
- I wasn't able to find any real world example of where a lightweight pulley directly or was assumed to have caused the problems that are potential.
So far, it's been great. Which I suspect will be the case right until it's not. I'm not sure if the belt and tension issues above were related to the parts or the terrible mechanic doing the work. So all I can do is share my experience.
Thankfully, my Mini wasn't damaged. As Way was going through my car, we had discussed swapping to an ATi crank pulley for reliability reasons. He dug in and found that I have been dodging bullets for awhile. Way's opinion is that the M7 pulleys were machined incorrectly and that was causing some strange alignment and forces on/caused by the belt. One pulley was pulling the belt out, the other pulling in. This caused fraying on the edge of the belt and caused the SC pulley to rub on the super charger body. Way confirmed there wasn't any issues with the shaft. Needless to say, both pulleys are in the bin now.
#96
So, here I am... eating my words.
Thankfully, my Mini wasn't damaged. As Way was going through my car, we had discussed swapping to an ATi crank pulley for reliability reasons. He dug in and found that I have been dodging bullets for awhile. Way's opinion is that the M7 pulleys were machined incorrectly and that was causing some strange alignment and forces on/caused by the belt. One pulley was pulling the belt out, the other pulling in. This caused fraying on the edge of the belt and caused the SC pulley to rub on the super charger body. Way confirmed there wasn't any issues with the shaft. Needless to say, both pulleys are in the bin now.
Thankfully, my Mini wasn't damaged. As Way was going through my car, we had discussed swapping to an ATi crank pulley for reliability reasons. He dug in and found that I have been dodging bullets for awhile. Way's opinion is that the M7 pulleys were machined incorrectly and that was causing some strange alignment and forces on/caused by the belt. One pulley was pulling the belt out, the other pulling in. This caused fraying on the edge of the belt and caused the SC pulley to rub on the super charger body. Way confirmed there wasn't any issues with the shaft. Needless to say, both pulleys are in the bin now.
I can say for sure that suspension transformed my Mini. You already have the light rims and sticky tires. The suspension is going to transform that car. You are going to be blown away. I am amazed, watching your video's that it is stock.
I do, however see how much understeer you are dealing with, that curb slap was a complete understeer moment.
At track days at higher speeds, I could drive through turns with my right foot, a little lift made the *** slide around then point and shoot out of the corner. I was out at a DE once in the Mini, instructor was a PCA guy with a 911. We came into a turn too hot, he started to say something, I did my little lift, slide and point it out of the corner trick. He slapped his knee and proclaimed, "these cars can't do anything wrong!! if you were in my 911 you would have been in all sorts of trouble in that turn.!"
My track car back then was a 87 RX7 with over 500HP so I knew what he was talking about, I just knew I could break rules in the Mini and get away with it. They are a blast to drive hard.
I just bought my wife a 05 MCS with 40K miles on it, sadly it needs paint as it appears to have spent its life outdoors and has suffered a lot of sun damage to the paint. You are making me want to find another one and make a track toy out of it. I know where a 05 JCW is.
Thank you for the Miltek exhaust review, I was feeling overwhelmed when looking for a cat back for this car. I did have my eye on that one, not I am leaning in that direction.
#97
I've watched that video a lot, it was understeer but it was caused mostly by an early turn in. If you watch really close, I'm not quite at the edge of the track and I turn in about 5m too early. I was also carrying slightly more speed. So, faster, shallow and not using the whole track. Screwed up the whole line.
#98
Yes, not the optimal line for that run, agreed. I guess my point is, once that understeer is dialed out I think you will see what I am talking about.
I see a decent amount of time lost while you wait for the frot end to bite.
I thing Way is going to make your car much more neutral. You are going to have a lot of fun with this new suspension. I am excited to read your reaction.
I see a decent amount of time lost while you wait for the frot end to bite.
I thing Way is going to make your car much more neutral. You are going to have a lot of fun with this new suspension. I am excited to read your reaction.
#100
Hi @BradLTL great thread!
Why did you switch from A7s (I think you have R7s too?) to Dunlop Direzza's for a track day? I was considering doing the opposite, as I've heard the R-comps run cooler and can actually last longer.
Why did you switch from A7s (I think you have R7s too?) to Dunlop Direzza's for a track day? I was considering doing the opposite, as I've heard the R-comps run cooler and can actually last longer.
R7s cost $1200, the Dunlop's cost $400.
So, I can get a full season of autocross on the R7s and run the Dunlop's to and from the site.
3 sets of Dunlop's equal 1 set of Hoosiers.