----> <----

 

"Yes it is but Chrysler isn't the old American Chrysler anymore. I understand Mercedes Benz bought it out. Therefore, wouldn't it be correct to say German engineering all around?"

The engine design was completed before the "merger" between Daimler-Benz and Chrysler Corp.

 

The Mini today stands out in a crowd and great attention getter. This I think contributes to the sales much as the PT Cruiser sells on its look. I would think Mini and the PT are dependent upon the retro stying. In this I would have no complaint, enjoying the results by the various US makers who have attempted this. By all means changes for betterment of horsepower and handling would be expected. In the same look different body styles would be cool. Wagon,pickup but please no "MINI"van

 

Actually, Toyota is killing the MR2 because its butt ugly. If you put an 87, a 91 and a current (sorry, don't know the exact model years) together the current version just looks horrible. That and it doesn't even look like the same car.

That said, I might have to buy another MINI on the last year of the current design. I'm all for options and variations. Just leave this one as is. (which won't happen)

 

[QUOTE=mcsdsb]......It lists the front bonnet assembly,(hood in US terminology), rear axle assembly, and virtually no carry over parts from the rest of the range .....
Also, a bottle neck in the factory as they grossly underestimated the number of customers taking the two tone option, is causing the long delays on delivery.
..........QUOTE]

i dare to bmw to have a real engineer respond, not some telemarketer wannabe from miniusa spouting pap:

-if there aren't carry over parts, why not just leave this car alone and start a whole new platform? at over 100,000 units a year, you can make a good economic case for a separate line for just this car.
-what's the problem with the hood? my guess is getting multiple compound contour parts to match. i volunteer my design time to fix this if you keep the current car.
-what's wrong with the rear suspension? it doesn't look any worse than other multi link rear suspensions. but again i volunteer design time to fix it if you keep the current car.
-so either charge extra for the 2 tone roof (with a separate paint step) or figure out a clever way to make the non- body colored roof panels bond on so that they can be pre painted (or pre molded from plastic)

right, i'm am nag on this

LEAVE THE CURRENT CAR ALONE. YOU WILL SCREW IT UP IF YOU MAKE IT BIGGER WITH A LONGER WHEELBASE. CHARGE MORE IF YOU HAVE TO.

 

The current R50/53 MINI is obviously an over-engineered car for its price point. We all currently enjoy ownership of a car with cutting edge technology for a fraction of what you would pay to have that same technology in a BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc.

The R50 MINI is EXPENSIVE to manufacture. The rear suspension is derived from a RWD vehicle, the E36 BMW 3 series and so on and so forth.


What people don't understand many times is that the automotive industry is a "Cut Throat" environment where manufacturers always need to keep up with "Gotta have" products and slashing production costs at the same time.


Also remember that car companies are like any other business where the bottom line is what really matters in the end. If BMW believes that the current R50 generation is too expensive to manufacture, trust me, they'll find ways to slash production costs to increase the margin of profits.


I trust that BMW will do a terrific job with the upcoming R56 generation and while that car will be cheaper to manufacture I personally doubt the car will look or feel cheap in comparison to the current R50 generation.

Like I said before, people like to jump the gun before even seeing what the final product will look like.

I'll reserve judgement until the year 2006/2007 when the R56 is supposed to be launched.


Chill and relax and for now enjoy your "Over-engineered" R50/53 MINIs.

 

If we are real lucky, BMW will sell the tooling to a Brazilian company which will continue to make "Old Mini2's." They were making old-style air-cooled VW Beetles in Mexico up until 2 years ago, and may still be making them in Nigeria or Brazil.

Good designs don't just "go away in 5 years - they go on and on." Look at an Avanti lately?

 

I can't believe how many of you guys don't have faith in the company that brought us the current MINI.

(FYI the current Avanti is quite a bit different than the original - it's now built off of the late 90's camaro/firebird platform.)

 

Okay, so Ferrari doesnt cut costs, they charge more. Ditto Lamborghini, Aston Martin. All these cars are 100k+. So why cant you sell a high content car at a lower price point? If the MCS is not profitable enough at 20k base, make it 24k.

Next, if your going to make use a new platform(BMW 1 series), use it for the estate and cabrio. Keep (and improve!) the current one as a HI PO 2 seater.

IF your going to change the current car and engine;
Make it look like the 2000 MINI show car
Make provisions for a truly high performance version. You know the new Lotus Elise only weighs 1900 lbs with 180hp, lets add some lightness to the new MINI, and maybe that engine from the Peugeot 506 WRC!

 

The old Bug and Avanti are crude cars that are easily made in some third world

country with cruder factories. The Mini isn't in the same ballpark with the old Bug. In fact the comparison is like a prop plane to a lear jet. If bmw is smart and has the foresight, they will tamper with success as little as possible.

 

Let's hope you're right! Reading this thread has made me nervous...I wish I had enough money saved up to buy my MCS now. That way I can avoid whatever odd/ugly "restyling" BMW inflicts on future MINIs.

But why would BMW/MINI USA bite the hand that feeds? The MINI has earned accolades from automotive reviewers, design hounds and (lest we forget) buyers around the world. I'm sure some minor tweaks will be incorporated, but the MINI probably won't get too fugly.

I'll just try to remain calm...

 

I think a lot of people have a reason to be fearful in some aspect. There is a long, long, long history with automakers, taking successful cars and slowly ruining their overall feeling. We could probably list a couple of hundred easily. Some of the statements that BMW has indicated or that has been leaked to the press, tend to display a trend that has occurred before with other automakers, especially on cars like the Mini. For example, compare a beautiful 1950's Ford Thunderbird with subsequent year Thunderbirds. I know not everything is an apple to apple comparison. But it is an example of a car that had a lot of unique attributes, in which they were slowly chipped away until we had the 1980's version of the Thunderbird.

The Mini is a unique car. It's attraction is a precarious blend of many elements, put together just right to give us a car we all like. It is attractive, but not so much as too be just a "cute" car. It displays a faithful representation of the past, with a thoroughly modern theme, so as not to give just a simple retro image. It has a high degree of quality, the performance is amazing for a small car, the feel during driving really provides a true driving experience that is thoroughly laking in other cars, even far exceeding the Mini's price range. All of these elements and more make this car great. To take these elements and to begin modifying them to such a degree as BMW in such a short time frame I think can be potentially disastrous. Take for example, the new engine. This is a pretty accurate rumor. Anyone who thinks that a Peugot turbocharge engine is not going to change the character of the car, has not really been driving a lot of cars. The supercharger on this small engine, really provides a beautiful and torque filled power band that greatly adds to the driving excitement and will truly be missed in a turbocharged application. I really don't think the turbocharged engine will add one bit to increasing the fine representation of a car that we have now. This is just one example, but I think a lot of the other proposed changes could have the same affect. Every time you begin to share platforms you begin to introduce compromises. It always happens, because it must be built to accommodate so many different attributes, that are not intended for each model. I am all for updating cars to keep them current with design trends. But I think a lot of these changes are being implemented for corporate causes and not for the true improvement of the car. We will have to wait and see, but I for one am thoroughly happy that I will be purchasing another one of the current body style and I have no intention of ever purchasing the new models.

 

[QUOTE= We will have to wait and see, but I for one am thoroughly happy that I will be purchasing another one of the current body style and I have no intention of ever purchasing the new models.[/QUOTE]

Are you sure? Wow you must have some kind of crystal ball because you seem to know already how the final production R56 MINI will look like.

Ever heard of the old saying "Never say Never"?

I remember saying just 3 years ago that I would never buy a small car (At the time didn't know about the MINI) and 3 years later I own 2 of them and got rid of 2 American made boats.

I would like to see if you are going to stand by this statement when the R56 is released. I'll keep it in my file of "promises".

This is my problem with this thread. People like to make ASSumptions about something that they are not 100% sure about. Yes I know about the Thunderbirds, Impalas, etc great cars from Detroit that morphed into less than desirable FWD boats (Albeit the current T-Bird is the most faithful version to the original 1957 model) but BMW is clever enough to to dilute one of the most successful small car experiments ever conceived in the history of Bavaria.

Not until more details about the bext gen car are released and an actual PHOTO of a prototype or pre-production model is published, I will be holding my tongue, period, end of story.

If people want to play the "Psychic" game, fine but no matter how many ASSumptions are made about a car that no one outside of Munich and Oxford has seen is quite frankly entertaining but also a blatant waste of time.

 

Cooper4us,


I have never, ever been wrong about anything.

Obviously my post is my opinion. Almost everything on this forum is each of our opinion. The rambling are my thoughts. We will just have to wait and see. You may be right.

 

BMW has a recent history of TOTALLY SCREWING UP ALL DESIGNS THEY TOUCH, so the news that the MINI will not only no longer be mini (read: larger), but will be a genre-milk-machine (read: platform variants), leaves me looking in the previous page for that big puking emoticon

bad BMW!

 

a longer mini = a wrc mini (the current mini is too short for regulations). Could you imagine 300hp, SMG, AWD, yaw control, no frills? talk about go-kart.

If you think about it the current mini isn't "real" either, as it was enlarged and softened considerably from the original.

 

I think longer was referring to the traveller version and not the standard 2 door MINI.

 

From the all info I've seen the next MINI will not be much different than the current car in terms of size and look. The main differences will be the engine and a modified chassis. The will be producing a traveller version (read: longer) on a modified MINI platform however.

 

The reason for the bottleneck at the factory regarding two-tone cars is that they have only one paint line. A single color car only has to go through once. Two tone cars have to go through twice, thus slowing down the production line.

The hood being such a large piece with compound curves is very expensive to make. It is a lot less expensive to make a traditional hood separate from the fender.

I think that they should leave the current MINI pretty much as is. A wagon versions would be cool though. If they want to make the MINI brand have more models they could do that on a new platform. How about a MIDI Cooper in additiong to the MINI? Just no SUV! That is where Smart is making a mistake by bringing an SUV as their first model imported. They should bring the fourtwo because it has style and it is different. That is one reason that the MINI has been a success.

One of the reasons the Beetle and Classic Mini were successful was that they were a stylish car that wasn't changed in basic style for 40 years. The changes that were made were to improve it. Mini tried to improve the styling with the Clubman models but the original style far out lasted it. The old Beetle which by the way is not made any more (Puebla Mexico was the last place it was made) was successful for the same reason.
BMW used to make some of the most beautiful cars (Z8, current 3 series for example). Now they make some of the ugliest. The Z4 is hideous. That is why they are offering incentives to get people to buy them. Chris Bangle and his group has ruined the BMW cars. Lets just hope he doesn't hit the MINI with his Bangle Stick.

 

I can't speak for the rest of us here but I don't have faith in any car company that tries to mess with a good thing because I 've seen too many change a good thing and it doesn't work out. Then, instead of going back to the good thing, they either try to sell it or take it off the market altogether.

 

"p.s. I saw a Mini Clubman at the carshow yesterday, and it didn't make me hurl,
'course seeing that Mini Moke yesterday did make me a bit queezy.[/QUOTE]
my friend jay has a mini moke that has a 1375 cc motor, full webbers and every performance mod made, and it has been descibed as the fastest classic on the planet!

 

I know im new here, but there are a few things i need to say. I dont care what anyone tells you or what any of you think, but the MINI is a very expensive car. A compact car with a dinky little supercharged 1.6L SOHC (not even a DOHC for more effective power output), very minimal trunk space and performance that is nothing to brag about should NOT cost 25 grand (i say 25 grand because its what most dealers charge for a new MINI CS). Anyone who says that they like the car the way it is should really have a look at the competition. Just as an example...the Scion tC, though not having the pedegree of a BMW made MINI, is getting as much attention as the Mini. There are super-long waiting lists for that car, the dealers cant even stock the car fast enough, its made by Toyota so it has excellent reliability AND is handles and goes like stink, not to mention it is well made. All of these characteristics are similar if not the same as the Mini except.....the Scion costs 16 grand (the same as a base model Cooper), and the Mini Cooper S costs 23-25 gand. I could buy a damn used 350Z for that kind of cash with low miles!!!!
As far as power output, the Scion puts out 160hp while the Mini puts out 165hp. As you can see, the Scion has a better hp/dollar. Sure, the Mini is known for its handling but yet, the Focus and the Scion either meet, or exceed the Mini for far less. The point im trying to make is that BMW better step up the game with the upcomming Mini. A makeover is DEFINATLY needed. Face it...the car is way too underpowered for its price range so whatever BMW is doing to improve the car, it better be well worth it. Im saying, I expect BMW to stuff a 215+ hp DOHC (cuz twin-cams sound badass and are more effective at puttin out hp and torque) turbo engine (cuz we all know that turbo engines put out more hp and they sound better IMO) into the new Mini and maintain a very low weight (im guessing a good 23-2400lbs should do). If all this goes though, the upcomming Mini should be by far the best sport compact out on the market, hands down.

 

Well, Daillestchop..., welcome to the list? (Although its a little off-putting that your very first post seems to be a bit of a harsh critique on the MINI.)

As a new member of the list, I'm sure you'll enjoy the several threads (find them with search), where the turbo vs. supercharger issue has been debated.

You'll probably also be thrilled to learn that it appears that there will be a turbo on the next gen MINI.

Also, I recommend that you do some lurking and get to know the members interests. There are a few who are into all-out acceleration and top-end. There are nitrous kits and one very interesting dual charge (turbo+super) kit for those folks.

Most of the members are just into driving the car for fun, and not to go faster than anyone else, although on the right roads it is faster than most cars. If you've spent much time in a MINI you may have noticed that the combination of tight, hard handling, plus the HP that the MINI has, total more fun to drive than you might expect.

Then there's the styling factor. Yes I know its just cosmetic, but its nice to get out of a car that makes people smile at you, vs. a "bad-***" car that makes people scowl at you.

I believe that many of us think that, although more HP would always be nice, its not at the top of the list (at least not my list), and we don't want to lose all of the other positives that the car has. I'm hoping that MINI is very careful about any changes that they make. So far, they've done pretty well.

Enjoy.

 

actually, mine was closer to $30k, I could've bought 2 scions with that!! .... except that I don't want one, ....... and I still don't want one.

 

Welcome! While you've attempted to ingratiate yourself by announcing, in your first post, that you don't care what any of us think, I was able to gather up enough interest in your post that I read it and am even responding to it.

The cost of an MCS depends a lot on what options it has; it's possible to option one out to more than $40,000. Mine was less than $25K and is very nice, indeed.

I just checked with a local dealer (Suburban Scion in Troy, Michigan) and, according to their web site, they have twelve tCs in stock, with prices ranging from $16,465 to $18,060. Here, at least, there seems to be no waiting list, super-long or otherwise. Perhaps it varies with location.

The Dodge SRT-4 is probably the hp/dollar champ, if that's the criterion.

Meet or exceed the MINI in terms of handling? Road & Track had this to say in their review of the tC:

"Not that the car needs the extra power. What it really needs is a sportier suspension. Although the tC can gap a Mini Cooper in a straight line, it will lose sorely at the racetrack. Understeer predominates with the stock tC suspension. Turn the steering wheel at speed and the front tires respond with shrieks and howls. Noticeable understeer is exhibited in all cornering attitudes and the lack of a limited-slip differential exaggerates the problem."

They seem to disagree.

We'll all have to see how good a job BMW does at meeting "badass" expectations, but I think you'll find that most of us are pretty happy with the car as-is and that we did research the competition before choosing. BTW, did you know that the TRD is making a supercharger--not turbocharger--kit for the tC?

Understand that I have nothing at all against the tC: it appears to be a decent enough car for the price and is a more interesting vehicle to most enthusiasts than the other Scions, but I find your points unpersuasive.

Mark