>>I still contend that making direct comparisons between a MINI and a new 3, 5 or 7 series is totally unfair. But at $17K base price, the MINI stacks pretty well against direct competitors.<<

That in itself might be a useful thing to consider. If I was interested in spending $50k on a car (which I am absolutely not), I might look at how well the MINI stands up against its price competition and feel fairly confident that I am getting good value when I spend $50k on a 5-series (or whatever they cost). Maybe that would be justified, maybe not.

I most certainly judge BMW's dealerships by my MINI buying experience, which was dismal. Maybe I would have been treated better if I was spending 2-3 times as much on a car, but maybe knowing that would bug me, too.

 

I've been curious about something for some time, now. Let's pretend for a moment that BMW bought the MINI brand, but they decided to make it into a BMW...a true BMW. They put a BMW designed and built engine in the car, they up the quality on all of the components, they eliminate all the rattles and squeaks, the easily scratched painted plastic parts go away, they tighten up quality control to extremely high standards. Basically, they create a BMW with a MINI body style. They don't change the handling of the car, since they nailed that. And of course, they charge for this increase in quality. Now, the base price of the Cooper and Cooper S increases $5000 and becomes ~$22K and ~$24K, respectively.

Would you still buy it at the increased price?

Would you be happier with it?

My gut tells me that many would, but I'm guessing. What's your thoughts?

See ya,
JS

 

>>>>A MINI is a MINI, not a bimmer. If I'd wanted a BMW, I'd have bought one.
>>
>>
>>I Do you truly believe a MINI is a MINI?
>>
Yes I do, I would not equate parts sharing with the essence of the vehicle, If that held true, wouldn't an Aston Martin just be a Jaguar (same platform) as well as the Audi A4 being a VW Passat, and the new Saab 9-2 being a GM car. Remember it was common for vehicle manufacturers to use other company's components. AC and Ford made the Shelby Cobra, Sunbeam (owned by Chrysler) and Ford made the Tiger, Mercedes and Chrysler currently make the Crossfire. No a MINI is a MINI and not a bimmer, irrespective of some mechanical componentry.

_________________
BLUBELLE - 2003 MCS IB /W Premium, Sport, Cold pkgs, Lapis blue interior, Magnecor wires, Alta Pulley, Moss Skid Plate, Chrome Trim Interior

 

JerryGee (and others),

I don't know if your post was addressed to me or just general. Whatever, I would not want my comments to be interpreted as thinking we should refrain from negative comments. It is a forum thankfully not inhabited by a bunch of Ned Flanders or Pollyannas. We each just perceive from our own experiences. So far (not on metal) mine has been without problems. I certainly acknowledge that if I'd had the problems with my Mini you list I too would be negative about Minis.

I could go on to repeat we shouldn't generalize which countries' autoworkers are better than others -- not from we who gave the world the Pacer and Pinto -- and that comparing Minis to expensive BMWS isn't fair, but so many have said it already...

 

>>I've been curious about something for some time, now. Let's pretend for a moment that BMW bought the MINI brand, but they decided to make it into a BMW...a true BMW. They put a BMW designed and built engine in the car, they up the quality on all of the components, they eliminate all the rattles and squeaks, the easily scratched painted plastic parts go away, they tighten up quality control to extremely high standards. Basically, they create a BMW with a MINI body style. They don't change the handling of the car, since they nailed that. And of course, they charge for this increase in quality. Now, the base price of the Cooper and Cooper S increases $5000 and becomes ~$22K and ~$24K, respectively.
>>
>>Would you still buy it at the increased price?
>>
>>Would you be happier with it?
>>
>>My gut tells me that many would, but I'm guessing. What's your thoughts?
>>
>>See ya,
>>JS


That would be nice, but at $24K this new and improved MINI will be overlapping with the upcoming BMW Series 1 which will be the "Ideal" MINI with a BMW engine and RWD for around $22K to $25K.

I believe that MINI can make susbstantial improvements to some of the materials in the MINI's cabin but a "base" $25K Cooper will be a tough sell IMO.

the biggest attraction of the MINI is the affordable price tag in standard form.

 

>>
>>Some people in this forum that bought the mini and then sold it to move on to a BMW M3, I ask myself. It's still BMW parts and build. It should be about the same.
>>
>>Just rambling.
>>
>>T


I guess I might be the only person that has gone the opposite route. I had a 2003 BMW M3 but it was stolen. The reason I have replaced it with an MCS (picked it up last Friday 9/19/03) is because I've always wanted one. If the new M3 is that easy to steal I don't want to get another one right now. My other car is a 2002 Corvette Z06 so I really just need a second car (the MCS) to take to work, to take the the Jets and Yankees games, my hockey games, etc.

I had the new M3 for about 6 months and drove it about 10,000. I had zero problems, none. I've only had my MCS for four days but I've driven it six hundred miles and no problems, no stuble, no nothing (so far).

Having formerly owned a 98 328 before trading up to an M3, I think the MCS reminds me of a sportier version of the 3 series. The MCS handling remindes me of my old three series. I drove the 3 series for 60,000 miles and never had any problems except that I needed a new radiator at 60,000 miles which was replaced under warranty.

The biggest difference betweeen a 3 series or M3 versus the MCS (besides its size) is the interior. I love the MCS interior, but my anthracite interior sctratches very, very easily. I do miss the comfort and luxury of the M3. The nappa leather on the M3 was the best interior I've ever had in a car.

The downside of the M3 is the weight, my Z06 weighs approx. 3,100 lbs where as the new M3 was 3,400. Believe me you can feel the difference. In slow speed turns, the M3 would really understeer, in high speed turns it was very easy to drift the car.

Those of you who think the MCS is bumpy with the with the sport package, go test drive an E46 M3. I've owned asbout 15 sports cars and the M3 has the harshes ride I've ever experienced, and that says a lot from a guy who races race cars on the weekends. The M3 is a very extreme car, if you are considering a 3 series or M3 I would test drive both. If you're looking for a race car with a nice interior than the M3 is for you. If you just want a good handling luxury car pick the 3 series.

I think the M3 attracts more attention than the MCS (again I could be wrong since I've only owned the MCS for four days) Cops follow you every where, there always someone looking in your car when it's parked. (I'm sure all you Mini owners have gone throught the same thing), but I think the M3's attention is usually negative.

I love the MCS, if the M3 and MCS were the same price, I'd pick the M3, and I think anybody who drove both would say the same thing. The M3 is a better car than the MCS but it cost twice as much and your car insurance will be twice as much (my insurance on the M3 was $1,800 a year and the MCS will only be $900 a year. If you think both figures are high, I'm a married 33 yr old Male with a perfect driving reocrd who owns a house and lives in New Jersey. The key word there was New Jersey which has one of the highest car insuracne premiums in the country.

Now that I've already owned an M3 I thought it was time for an MCS, and I LOVE MY MCS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If I didn't have my Z06, I would have gotten another M3, but since I already have the Z06 the MCS is my choice. If forced the choose between the Z06 and M3, they are both great cars, but I would choose the Corvette Z06, hands down. It's better than the new M3 in every category (acceleration, handling, taking to the autocross or the track, etc.) except the leather seats.

I love my MCS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RaceCarDriver

 

My apologies, Boy Racer, for the over-generalization.

I was trying to make a joke based on very real facts that some things at the Oxford plant (like connecting the drains) were simply not done by the workers.

I made the joke knowing that everyone knows that Rolls-Royce and Bentley have set standards for quality and luxury unparralled by any other company, so I didn't think anyone would take offense at such an obvious, over-reaching untruth. But hey, comedians everywhere are misunderstood and taken seriously when we don't mean to be.

And as most of the subcontractors aren't even Brits I wasn't only insulting the British.

Also, as a corporate trainer who has trained people in England, Sweden, Germany, etc. etc. etc., I can say from personal experience that culture has everything to do with the work ethic. The executives and plant managers can only do so much, and sometimes, as in the more socialistic countries where they simply aren't allowed to fire people, that isn't much at all.

If you haven't been to Europe and stayed in working-class homes and eaten with the working-class people, you have no idea how different the attitudes there are from the attitudes here. It really drives it on home, how much we are defined by where we live, how priviliged we in the US are, and how much our opinions differ due to where we were raised. It's a fascinating study.

I encourage everyone to travel and really talk to the people about various issues such as alcohol. You'd be amazed at how what is considered "normal" in one place, just 50 miles away is considered deviant and worth the death penalty.

>>>>MINIs are put together at the old MINI plant in Oxford by Brits, who have never had a reputation for Total Quality Management.
>>
>>yeh, bentleys, rolls royce, lotus, TVRs and the like are all just thrown together aren't they!!!
>>
>>sorry to go off the beaten track but I should stick up for my fellow country men. this has been said b4 on here and i don't know where this all comes from. we have some of the best engineers over here in the UK and i won't hear any different.
>>
>>_________________
>>K&N Intake, 5 channel amp in custom build stealth floor, Alpine H/U, Genesis 6x9 subs in enclosure, Genesis front speakers and tweeters. Fully active system. Tinted windows and tail lights

 

the MINI has excellent build quality for the price and compares very well with other vehicles in its immediate price bracket.
__________________

I couldn't disagree more: there is no comparison IMO in the same price range to a Honda or Miata in terms of build quality. I paid almost 10K for a brand new Lancer for my son than my MCS and it is a much better build quality than my MCS in terms of being solid with no rattles. I understand posters love their MINI's and I agree it is a fun car, but I don't get the rationalization that because it is 24K or under that it is ok for it to have rattles. My MCS I picked up Friday after being there for 2 days to fix the dash rattle. The dash they totally tore apart and fixed it which was great. While driving over the weekend, the sunroof rattle came back as well as the rear hatch rattle, both of which have been fixed previously, the sunroof twice before. The build quality of my MCS is pathetic....the KIA's have to be much better built than mine. I have had both a 3 series and 5 series and there is no comparison in build quality. I have never heard one rattle from either one when I had them. BMW makes terrific cars and yes they are more expensive, but Honda's, etc are not more expensive......my MCS now has 24K miles and it is becoming a rattle trap as I pile the miles on. My wife wants the new 5 series, so she placed an order, so I'm giving her my MCS to trade in on the new 5 series when it gets here as the profit margin is so huge on the new 5 series BMW is giving me a nice allowance on trade for the MCS...lol ! I'm then going to decide between the G35 Coupe, RX8 or 3 series to replace my MCS. I could never justify buying the JCW because I would be potentially buying a $30K rattletrap compared to other cars in the $30K range. Again the MCS is probably the most fun car I have owned but at the same also the most frustrating :smile:

One last service caveat and warranty warning: I pulled my cell phone cord out of the front power adapter and the whole adapter broke as it came out because it is a piece of crap made out of plastic.....when I took my car in for service I was told BMW would not warranty it because it was only designed for a cigarette lighter, not power adapters and I would have to pay for the repair and labor. I said ok, then what is the power adapter in my rear boot designed for then?? I was told it was for a power adapter, not a lighter so you could use the MINI accessory cool bag. I then said ok, put the rear power adapter socket in my front lighter adapter if it is better designed and will hold up. I was then told they are exactly the same adapters...lol !
I still had to pay for the fix, almost $100. They told me to be careful pulling cords out as it was still not warrantied, but the rear one is if I pull the cell phone out of the rear one...lol ! Too much !

 

>I'm then going to decide between the G35 Coupe, RX8 or 3 series to replace my >MCS.

Go for the G35 coupe. No contest, man. It's the Bimmer Beater, at least the 3 series anyway!

My apologies for hijacking the thread. PM me if you like, I'll direct you to some great threads on these very car comparisons.

 

Hey Cat, Couldn't agree with you more about the benefits of travel. Humor is a problem when posting and I too have been misunderstood before. I understood that you were making a point by stretching it.

 

cool, thanks! :smile:

 

I never owned a BMW, but after a year with my MCS I bought a 2004 330ci and I still have my MCS. Will I trade it in on a BMW 1 if they come out , NO :smile: I love my MINI.