When I bought the Mini, they explained that it's all BMW parts (but the engine). So in turn, I am really getting a BMW....at a mini price.

I love my Mini. I have had no problems. I do hate the rattles though (not many but enough to brake the silence when crusen).

Some people in this forum that bought the mini and then sold it to move on to a BMW M3, I ask myself. It's still BMW parts and build. It should be about the same.

Just rambling.

T

Not all parts are from a BMW. Mostly just the suspension parts I think

The build quality of my MCS and the many BMW’s I have had over the past 32 years don’t compare. My MCS in 5 months and 7,400 miles has had to make more unscheduled dealer visits then any of my BMW’s and I have had at least one BMW (and many times two BMW’s) in my garage since 1971 including our current BMW X5 4.4. I have on order a BMW M3 that left Bremerhaven today so I am one of those you refer to who is switching. My MCS is a very fun car to drive but it has been a disappointment to own.

I am seeing a lot of that lately around here. It scares me to be honest. I only have 6500 miles but no problems.

I will get upset once I find out the Mini is mostly not BMW parts. As I was told that it was - this was their main sales line.

I just finished reading the book "The New MINI". In the book it states that a few different countries supply parts for the new MINI.

The multi-link rear suspension in the MINI derives from the patented multi-link Z-axle rear setup used in BMW's 3 series cars since the 1980's.

This is one of the reasons the MINI drives and handles so well. This is a new car for BMW. Only a two year build history for the U.S. market. Build quality on my MCS so far as been excellent. My wife paid $45,000 for her BMW 5 Series. Yeah, nice car, and BMW has had several years to get the build quality right.

Bottom line for me is my MCS is a good value for me at $ 23,000 bucks, and my wife thinks the $45,000 she paid is a good value for her. Hey, were both HAPPY!!

I have not yet owned a BMW so I cannot comment on that comparison, but aside from my first freakishly fragile windshield I have been thrilled with the build quality of the MINI.

I did have some nasty squeaky seat noise for a while but raising the seat as high as it will go exposes all the suspect hinges and connections..(WD-40 spssst, spssssst) and it's all silent again. I love it.

I can only hope the BMWs are as well built or, dare I hope, better! I just fear that by the time I'm tired of my MINI and really ready to buy one they will all look like Bizzarro BMWs with the 7 series style trunk and lines. Maybe it'll grow on me by then. I LOVE the E-46 M3 for now, just a little more than I want to spend on a car right now.

Jim

Not the same at all. Most BMWs are put together in Germany, some in North Carolina. MINIs are put together at the old MINI plant in Oxford by Brits, who have never had a reputation for Total Quality Management.

BMW has fallen a bit in the latest studies when it comes to consistency, but they have several proven engines like the S52 that is pretty darn near indestructable.

The suspension was put together via BMW specs for the 3-series, the engine was a joint effort but it has gotten awards for "best engine" etc., but most of the problems we've seen with the MINI are with everything BUT those. I've never heard of any BMW needing new windshields repeatedly, or coolant tanks. They just tend to burn oil faster than most cars.

I think it is a bit unfair to compare a $20K MINI to a $40K to $50K+ BMW product. Obviously some materials and fit and finish will not be as polished as in its pricier cousins but in all fairness, the MINI has excellent build quality for the price and compares very well with other vehicles in its immediate price bracket. One of the reasons I bought into the MINI was the BMW involvement in the development and manufacturing of the car. However, at $20K I was not expecting to find the richer materials of a BMW 330ci for example.

I have never owned a BMW but I think the MINI has re-affirmed my belief that at some point in the future I will be a BMW owner, but for now I enjoy the MINIs.

>>Not the same at all. Most BMWs are put together in Germany, some in North Carolina. MINIs are put together at the old MINI plant in Oxford by Brits, who have never had a reputation for Total Quality Management.
>>
>>BMW has fallen a bit in the latest studies when it comes to consistency, but they have several proven engines like the S52 that is pretty darn near indestructable.
>>
>>The suspension was put together via BMW specs for the 3-series, the engine was a joint effort but it has gotten awards for "best engine" etc., but most of the problems we've seen with the MINI are with everything BUT those. I've never heard of any BMW needing new windshields repeatedly, or coolant tanks. They just tend to burn oil faster than most cars.


The "old" MINI plant in Oxford was completely refurbished by BMW, so the currrent car is being build to exacting BMW manufacturing processes and standards. Upper management directors at the plant are all BMW executives. No old "Rover" stuff left over in there. :wink:


Go to http://www.mini2.com for an excellent article with pics on the BMW Group AG MINI Oxford assembly plant, one of the most modern of all of Europe.

_________________
'02 Cooper CVT (Absolute Keeper!)
At the VPC: '04 Cooper S (Discharged from the Jingu Maru @ 4:11PM on 9/22/03)

excellent point Cooper4us, but I wasn't referring to the technical quality of the plant - which I hear is well worth a visit for the guided tour - but the people who put them together (remember all the unconnected drains because someone forgot?), and the poor engineering from the manufacturers/sub-contractors of the various parts that are failing.

As a corporate trainer I know that it doesn't matter how good and advanced a computer you give someone - they can still reduce it to the level of a circa 1920 typewriter. :razz:

OH and I meant to say in response to the original question of this thread that I NEVER would have considered buying a BMW until I drove the MINI so I guess in a way initially I did judge BMW by the MINI. It made me test drive a slew of other BMWs and to encourage my Dad to get an old 3-series. He's now all fired up over getting a used M3. :grin:

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https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...lbum04/fgh.jpg

Almost due: '03 EB/W; 1,2,3, R/S, H/K

>>excellent point Cooper4us, but I wasn't referring to the technical quality of the plant - which I hear is well worth a visit for the guided tour - but the people who put them together (remember all the unconnected drains because someone forgot?), and the poor engineering from the manufacturers/sub-contractors of the various parts that are failing.
>>
>>As a corporate trainer I know that it doesn't matter how good and advanced a computer you give someone - they can still reduce it to the level of a circa 1920 typewriter. :razz:
>>
>>OH and I meant to say in response to the original question of this thread that I NEVER would have considered buying a BMW until I drove the MINI so I guess in a way initially I did judge BMW by the MINI. It made me test drive a slew of other BMWs and to encourage my Dad to get an old 3-series. He's now all fired up over getting a used M3. :grin:
>>
>>_________________
>>:wink:

I've been bouncing back and forth between a 2003 MCS and a 2002 BMW 325 for the last few months. There are some cosmetic similarities, dash displays, some buttons are the same. A fluid container or two in the engine bay are similar/the same on the 3-series and the MCS. The suspension is similar on both cars, but the MINI is much tighter. The 325 is smoother/softer. They are both nice...just depends on what you want.

The big difference is the engine. The engine and 5-speed auto transmission in the BMW is great. It's incredibly smooth and fluid. You can barely detect when the BMW shifts from gear to gear. The 2.5 six delivers power when you want it, and it has a nice little growl that comes through when you get on the throttle. There really is no comparison in the engines. I think the MINI engine is fine, other than the software mgmt issues. It just isn't a BMW engine. Most of the reviews state that, too. The reviewers had hoped it would be a mini BMW, but it's a BMW MINI...subtle but important difference.

The BMW is built more solid. I never have heard a rattle in the 325's I've driven.

Would I get a BMW? Man, that's a tough call right now. I'm not thrilled with the way they handle problems as a corporation, and I understand it has been that way for years and isn't likely to change. I sure like the cars, though.

See ya,
JS

I love bmws which is part of why i love the mini but i am also got a very unique car that is the first of its kind for this company at a much cheaper price than the rest of their cars. and thier preformance cars are double or more. so i new going into it that it wont be as solid as a 3 series and not as fast etc as an m car
but people dont smile as much when they see a beamer as then do when they see a mini
would i love to have an m3 heck ya but my mini stays forever i love it
rattles and all.

>>I love bmws which is part of why i love the mini but i am also got a very unique car that is the first of its kind for this company at a much cheaper price than the rest of their cars. and thier preformance cars are double or more. so i new going into it that it wont be as solid as a 3 series and not as fast etc as an m car
>>but people dont smile as much when they see a beamer as then do when they see a mini
>>would i love to have an m3 heck ya but my mini stays forever i love it
>>rattles and all.

As I was replacing my old 1991 car I had not even considered a BMW. Way too common in my area (Honolulu).
MINI was about the only way for me to step into the showroom. The parts are clearly stamped BMW throughout my MCS from electrical to body parts, brakes, interior and exterior trim, etc. How well those parts work is to be determined but so far it is just fine.

Now after being active with other owners of BMW I would say that I have a better understanding of BMWs but still prefer my MINI over any of them. My MCS gets lots of looks but a BMW gets ignored by the general pubic in my area.

Thanks for the feedback.

I was getting a little down with some of these negative post. I do know that I bought the Mini comparing it to other cars in the 17000 to 20000 range and it seemed to give me more for my money.

I love my Mini, I just want to keep it of for many years.

I was looking at a 5 Series BMW. My brother has owned them for years I was always borrowing the car to put miles on it for him. I lived in Southern California at the time. He drove his harly to work all the time, so I found it to be the best for both if I drove it. :grin: When I moved to the Bay Area I was looking at the 5 series and a classic MINI. That's when I found out about the new MINI, waited a year for it to come out. It was a rival BMW dealership that told me about MINI of Concord and the no waiting list policy, thats when I knew I would be able to get the car without any hassles of a waiting list. The advantages of working from home, I knew I could beat most to get the car.

Will I ever go back and get my 5 series? You bet, I love driving BMW's but I love driving the MINI more!

>>MINIs are put together at the old MINI plant in Oxford by Brits, who have never had a reputation for Total Quality Management.

yeh, bentleys, rolls royce, lotus, TVRs and the like are all just thrown together aren't they!!!

sorry to go off the beaten track but I should stick up for my fellow country men. this has been said b4 on here and i don't know where this all comes from. we have some of the best engineers over here in the UK and i won't hear any different.

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K&N Intake, 5 channel amp in custom build stealth floor, Alpine H/U, Genesis 6x9 subs in enclosure, Genesis front speakers and tweeters. Fully active system. Tinted windows and tail lights

>> Not the same at all. Most BMWs are put together in Germany, some in North Carolina. MINIs are put together at the old MINI plant in Oxford by Brits, who have never had a reputation for Total Quality Management.

I am sorry, but I will have to totally disagree with this. Cooper4us has it right. This plant is run by BMW with BMW executives running the show. You're right that the MINI is not a BMW but it's because it is only 2 years old. All of us are like Beta Testers unfortunately.

Of course Brits work there, it's in Britain. We don't staff Germans here at the plant in SOUTH CAROLINA because we're in the US. Just because it is built by Americans, Brits, etc doesn't have any effect. Germans design, engineer, and run the company. Is this to say that just because the new X3 is being built in Austria that the qulity will be better or worse than any of the other cars??? NO! We in South Carolina use the same quality processes that Germany does. I can't believe someone could be so naive as to say that the people building the car are better/worse than people on other side of the ocean. Especially a corporate trainer.

Just my .02

FrogGuts

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http://ryanw.com/drawing_small.gif

I like you Frog Guts.

A couple of thoughts, perhaps just to underline some things that have been said already.

First, it is a simplistic generalization to compare workers from various nations in such a way. There are other factors such as degree of corporate quality control, labor and owner relationships, and the list goes on. If we are to assume British autoworkers are inherently sloppy what would that say about U.S. autoworkers who gave us decades of bad cars. They did not design them.

Second, I agree that we should not judge a car with a base price of about $17,000 with big buck cars. Added to that, who cares where the parts are made when weighted against performance. I find the most important thing about having a tiny "cute" car made by BMW is that when the macho is called for I can say "it's really made by BMW" and the bikers put their chains away and have some respect :razz:

Sorry to our British friends for the stereotypes. We Yanks are in a glass house and better be careful :eek: :eek: :eek:

First of all the MINI is not a luxury car. BMW has tauted it as a "Premium Small Car" but not a 'Luxury' alternative to a pricier BMW product. BMW did well by creating a separate brand entity for the MINI, instead of "dilluting" the image and brand recognition of BMW. This is a key and fundamental difference between the BMW approach and say the Mercedes Benz and Jaguar approach, both of which now offer low end models below the $30K price bracket.

As previously noted, there are touches around the MINI that tell you that this car has had heavy BMW influence...the LCD orange digital readouts, the radio, the ergonomics, the handling dynamics, etc. The MINI is an introduction to the world of BMW products as they tell you.."If you want to find out more, next time come back for a Bimmer instead".

I still contend that making direct comparisons between a MINI and a new 3, 5 or 7 series is totally unfair. But at $17K base price, the MINI stacks pretty well against direct competitors.

You don’t have to read these pages for long to see that the MINI has more then its fair share of problems. Many owners have reported multiple windshield replacements, engine stumble, yo-yo, hard start, poor A/C performance, leaking coolant tanks, loose windshield moldings, interior rattles, buzzes and clunks, and in my case endless electrical problems.

To justify these problems because of the base price of the car being only $17K doesn’t wash. My daughters $14K 2003 Mitsubishi Lancer may not have the performance and driving fun of the MINI, but she has had no problems in 6 months and 8,000 miles. None, nada, zip, zero. My MCS has been to the dealer 6 times, once on a flatbed in 5 months and 7,400 miles. I paid $12,800 for her car after dealer discounts and factory rebates. I paid $25,815 for my 2003 MCS which was MSRP, no dealer add-ons.

I also don’t buy the fact that the car is only two years old. The manufacturer appears to still be building cars that stumble and can’t seem to fix the ones that are already in consumer’s hands.

Last time I looked, this was a forum, where you come to express concerns, stories, experiences, be they good or bad. If you don’t like the “negative” then I’m sorry about that. Maybe the moderators could have a topic called “Problems with my MINI” and you wouldn’t have to go there.

I have said it before and I will say it again. My MCS is a lot of bang for the buck and a fun car to drive but it has been a big disappointment to own. It may not be fair to compare the MINI to years of BMW ownership, but MINI needs to address these problems in their current generation of vehicles.

I must be very lucky, because my '02 Cooper CVT has been pretty much troublefree after 14K miles. I am not implying that MINI's problems are in any way shape or form be an excuse after 2 or 3 years of ongoing production. The Europeans have 2 distinctive problems in my mind:

1) They over-engineer their cars to the point of madness (Witness i-drive, e-gas pedals, etc) with very complex electronics. Staying ahead of the pack may be coming at a hefty price.

2) They are obssessed about world class engineering and attention to detail but they fall short when it comes down to test all these cutting edge electronics to make absolutely sure that these systems are bulletproof before putting them into consumer's hands.

The Germans believe that quality is an aftertought and that a product must be re-worked several times after leaving the assembly line all the way into post-delivery. The Japanese and now the Americans believe that problems and quality must be introduced since very early stages of product development, manufacturing, etc.

So it all comes down to corporate culture and the belief system that compounds thier quality control practices and set of beliefs.

Going back to your daughter's Mitsu Lancer...not a bad car but not something I personally aspire too (The EVO IV is nice but at $37K I am not interested). Check the resale value of her car in 2 short years versus the resale value of your MCS.. :grin:

It seems to me, that this thread wishes to equate BMW's ownership of MINI somehow into making a MINI a teutonic (German) car. To which I answer, huh? Is a Rolls-Royce German because BMW owns them? How about MG, Rover and LandRover from 1994 - 2000 when BMW owned Rover Ltd.? A MINI is a British car old chap. Its much, much more reliable and refined than the MGs, Austins and Triumphs of yore. It should be too, as it is a new design. Maybe BMW marketers want you to believe that it is a German car, a BMW for sure. That way you can "trade-up" into 3,5,6,7, X or Z sisterhood. Don't buy that crap they're feeding you. Do Rolls owners aspire to the 750? Land Rover and Range Rover owners aspire to the X series? I think not.

A MINI is a MINI, not a bimmer. If I'd wanted a BMW, I'd have bought one.

>>It seems to me, that this thread wishes to equate BMW's ownership of MINI somehow into making a MINI a teutonic (German) car. To which I answer, huh? Is a Rolls-Royce German because BMW owns them? How about MG, Rover and LandRover from 1994 - 2000 when BMW owned Rover Ltd.? A MINI is a British car old chap. Its much, much more reliable and refined than the MGs, Austins and Triumphs of yore. It should be too, as it is a new design. Maybe BMW marketers want you to believe that it is a German car, a BMW for sure. That way you can "trade-up" into 3,5,6,7, X or Z sisterhood. Don't buy that crap they're feeding you. Do Rolls owners aspire to the 750? Land Rover and Range Rover owners aspire to the X series? I think not.
>>
>>A MINI is a MINI, not a bimmer. If I'd wanted a BMW, I'd have bought one.


I agree but the BMW MINI has many BMW parts in it. It is a product serviced and warrantied by BMW. It is a product manufactured by BMW using BMW manufacturing standards and processes. the New MINI is not a British Leyland or Rover Group standalone product anymore. Do you truly believe a MINI is a MINI? :lol:

See it cuts both ways. The effective MINI marketing campaign makes you beleive that either you have a MINI-MINI or driving a less expensive BMW hidden under a MINI body shell and badge. To me the new MINI is as much BMW as the 325i in principle and execution to an extent. The expectation of the product is a different matter all together.