They send the surveys to their subscriber base. Yes, they get back a lot more Toyota surveys than Minis because there are a lot more Toyotas in their subscriber base. But just because they get back 5000 surveys for a Camry vs. 100 for Mini, there is no reason to assume the data for the Toyota will show more or less average failures because of the larger sample size. A larger sample size just reduces the chances that your survey data is unrepresentative, but doesn't bias it up or down. If they have a stastistically insignificantly sample size, they say this in their charts.

Again, don't put too fine a point on it. Last time I checked, I think they said the 2004 was a better year than the 2005 and 2006. I don't believe this. But I do believe that a Mini is quite a bit less reliable than a Civic and their data clearly shows this.

Some of the huge year-to-year variations that are caused by problematic systems show up quite clearly in the data. For example, Honda has a spat of bad auto tranny problems in their V6 platform in about 2000-2004. It shows up quite clearly in their data.

- Mark

 

Suzuki sued CR for their Samurai test. Suzuki eventually backed down and the case was dismissed without CR having to retract a word.

- Mark

 

I agree they make mistakes. AFAIK, I was the first person to call them about a gross accounting mistake they made in a article about life-cycle hybrid costs and paybacks where they unfairly made hybrids look bad by double-booking depreciation and loan amoritization. It completely changed the results of the article in which they incorrectly concluded that none of the hybrids had fuel-savings payback. With proper accounting, four out of the six hybrids they analyzed had positive paybacks after a few years.

In about two weeks, they acknowledged their error and posted new results online, but their retraction in the magazine was basically "we made a small clerical error but the results are the same" and this really irked me. I dropped my subscription at this point.

But I still believe their reliabilty rankings are, by and large, accurate and useful. It's really the only objective data available.

- Mark

 

I know which report you are talking about. Even as I kid I can still remember that 60 minutes thing. However, CR did try an excessive amount of times to flip the Samurai, and when the guy driving couldn't the head guy at the time told him "Flip it, or I will find someone to flip it." Once the guy gets the thing to tip, you here all the workers cheering. This was recorded, and while I have a very forgiving nature, I will never trust CR again.

 

Sounds like urban legend to me. CR did work to aggravate the conditions causing a flip, but that's what testing is about - finding the corners of the envelope. They never did anything that doesn't happen in real-life driving of the car. And the accident record of the Samurai in rollovers backs the testing up - it is absymal - and although Suzuki blames CR for killing sales, I'd say the accident rate and subsequent lawsuits had more to do with it.

- Mark

 

I believe they gather all their reliability data from subscribers. I subscribe to the online version of CR, and get an annual questionaire to fill out. It covers a number of categories, autos included (I think electronics and appliances are the other categories).

I do include my experience with my '06 MCS, as well as my other cars. I've had minor problems to report in the past. For example, this year (I forget when the questionaire comes out), I will report the leaky coolant problem/thermostat problem I just had this past summer.

As markjenn said above, for auto reliability they just report the data and give their ratings based on what we (subscribers) say.

Now if you want to talk about their "recommendations", that's a different story all together. I don't usually trust these as much as I do the user feedback they gather on their web site....

-Ed

 

They actually DID rig the test to roll a Samurai over, I owned one and even with big tires (higher center of gravity) I never lifted a wheel in 6 years....and I am a fairly aggressive driver of all things

Video- http://www.billswebspace.com/suzukiv...merreports.wmv
Mine- http://www.billswebspace.com/1986.htm

I would agree that consumer reports has no value for me with auto ratings after this.

I am a current BMW M-Coupe Owner and looking soon to get into an R53, we did test drive the new turbo model but I prefer the 1st generation- it just felt more sporting to both myself and my wife. She may be getting out of her BMW 335ci next year to get an R53 as well- despite CRs downgrade ;-)

 

[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]HELP! I love my car, perhaps it's irrational even, because I love it despite it's many many many technical flaws. I only have 62K miles on it and it already has had the clutch and flywheel replaced once, the transmission replaced twice, window motors repaired, keyless door locks broken twice, and the A/C repaired.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Today, I also learned that I have an additional $6600 in needed repairs, including a busted radiator fan, electrical system repair, 2 oil leaks, power steering leak, and several other concerns which I didn’t even write down after the list got so long..[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]I don't want to get rid of my car yet, but can't afford to keep it with these kinds of repairs. I really expected it to last longer than this and never expected to experience soooooo many problems so regularly with a vehicle I purchased brand new.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Who should I contact at Mini to report all of my problems and ask for some help? I really want to keep my Mini forever and hope that I can continue to be a loyal customer for years to come. [/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri][/FONT][/SIZE]

 

I stopped subscribing a few years ago when they said Old Milwaukee was the best tasting beer in the US.

 

Actually, they rated it the best in the "Regular beer" category that only included the cheap mainstream American lagers. Other categories had more upscale beers. But don't let pesky details like this get in the way of a good story.

- Mark

 

I do not think that they take favoritism for one product vs another.

I just think that they rate things based on dumb ideas and a faulty premise. There just dumb.

 

I had a Samurai at the time of that report, and read it many times. The problems I had with it was that they were comparing a very inexpensive vehicle to 2 other vehicles that were considerably more costly, and then slamming the Sami because it didn't have the fit and finish. Then for the flipping issue, some staffer supposedly had one, and he was on a slight incline in the snow and it flipped on him. So they then run it through their standard avoidance test, and its is fine, so they then shorten the course, and widen the obstacle to be avoided, and still don't flip it with the professional driver. This is also after adding their outriggers to it, which brought it right up to the weight limit of the Sami. So they then have a staffer drive it to have a problem with stability. No if I remember basic science classes, when doing tests you have to have a constant control, when thy made all of these changes, they lost the control aspect, as they did not do the same to the other 2 vehicles. Later they did a review on the Ford Bronco II, and found it to be more prone to roll over, yet because it was "predictable" the Bronco was 'acceptable' yet the Sami was unacceptable. I will always take what they say no different than any other media source, need to look for their bias, I will always believe that CR does have a bias. Remember, the Sami was a very hot seller, and the American counterparts were being hurt by it, UNTIL CR just about killed the Sami and its value .... I'm not bitter am I???

 

Did CR ever rate themselves? Do they mention anything about their crooked ways of getting subscriptions to their publications?

They send you letters as"final notice", you think that you really owe somebody money, until you open the letter and you find out that it is only CR trying to get your money.

Final Notice, cr, you are crooks and peddlers.

 

LOL!!!!!

 

From my experience it seems people on car forums generally don't trust CR and their most avid supporters are clueless about cars. Now is this because enthusiast-preferred cars are less reliable than the transportation appliances preferred by the clueless masses? Or maybe it's because enthusiasts are more likely to know something is wrong in the first place. Another huge possibility, and IMO the most likely true case, is preconception. When people expect their new car to be reliable(like buyers of toyotas and hondas) they brush off any problem as a fluke and aren't as likely to report it. On the other hand when people expect their car to be unreliable they'll ***** and moan and report every little issue they can find because everyone likes to be proven right.
So whether CR is an ethical group or not, I don't trust them simply because it's based on popular opinion.

 

Let's see... Problems with my 06S (other than normal wear)... clutch squeal when it's cold(not a problem), the thermostat housing warped, an axle bolt had walked it's way out (tech said wasn't torqued to specs at the factory) and the hose to my washer resevoir blew off. All terrible problems that I just can't deal with