>>I know people want to believe there is some sort of conspiracy and that BMW has hordes of MINI's sitting in lots and warehouses across the world but folks, the simple truth is the car is built at the old Pressed Steel factory in Oxford which has a limited capacity. They are working 3 shifts with a max production of around 125k cars a year. The US is not the major market of the MINI. Do we really think that BMW is hording 6500 MINI's in New Jersey? Do you know how much that would cost BMW everyday to do that? I'm sure it would be more cost effective to sell them below MSRP. We are talking about the car company (BMW) that has the best margins the business. They know how to make money. Another point I think that needs to be made is BMW has been caught totally off guard with the success of the MINI. If you look at BMW's projected sales figures from a couple of years ago they would already have MINI sales shrinking to below 100k (high) and falling until 2007 when the next generation MINI hits the market. They also didn't expect to break even until 2007, they have revised that to about 2004.
>>
>>Production will continue at current levels until they can expand the facility at Oxford or bring another facility on line. This is almost a given since they want to expand the line so production will increase at some point. But, I don't think we will see the kind of market flood like with the PT Cruiser or new Beetle. BMW is far to smart for that. They know how to keep a marquee a premium marquee (premium prices as well). This does translate into higher resale value for us owners though.<<



Hi Markie! Welcome to our lively MCO forum! You fit right in with this most excellent post! Great specs, too!

Cheers!
Clover

 

I ordered my MCS back in early April from Bill Jacobs MINI in Naperville, IL. Paid MSRP, not one cent more. The only extras added to the base MSRP were the metallic paint (dark silver) and Premium Combo. The extras were at MSRP, too.

Saw in the MINI USA website that the MINI's MSRP will go up a whopping $125 for 2003, and part of that increase was to pay for a second multi-function key (owners are currently presented with one, not two), essentially meaning there has been no increase in MSRP for 2003.

Look in the classifieds or on EBAY and you'll find MCS's selling for well over MSRP.

Compare the MINI S to the PT Cruiser. I think it is important to note that the PT's main attraction was/is styling, which is very hot (I still think it looks sharp). The MINI S offers, in addition to exceptional styling, serious performance in terms of handling and acceleration (sadly, the PT is a slug). I think that will translate into a better perceived value by consumers over a longer period of time than that of the PT.

IMO, a MINI Cooper, in particular the S model, is a STEAL at MSRP. Until there are a ton of S models on the road (ala PT Cruiser, VW Beetle) or there is a hotter car available for less (could happen, but I don't see any challengers at the moment) I don't see a need for any MINI dealer to sell under MSRP, since there is no way one could argue that the current price is high. I think it will remain difficult to find a dealer willing to sell at, rather than above MSRP in some markets (like SoCal). As long as the MCS lists for a tick over $21K with some nice options thrown in, a buyer will have no leverage when trying to negotiate a price below MSRP, nor will there be any time soon.

In summary, holding out until an "S" can be had for under MSRP is an excercise in self-deprivation.

 

>>>>In New Jersey they had a boat with 4000 cars and a few days later a boat with 2500. That caused the backlog we are still trying to get through. According to my math that adds up to 6500 cars. Believe what you want.


The only trouble I have with this is, that in order to get 4000 cars in one boat would be very difficult. At (roughly) 145" long, by 67" wide (per MINI), you'd have to have cars stacked 25 cars "wide" by 40 cars "long", and 4 cars "deep". This would be a solid "rectangular prism" of MINI's 483 feet long by 139 feet wide (and 4 car-layers "deep&quot... and this assumes you maximize packing density by stacking them so that they were touching on all sides (and I'm pretty sure they don't ship them that way)!

That's a lot of MINI's!

 

>>Look in the classifieds or on EBAY and you'll find MCS's selling for well over MSRP.
>>

I see a lot of people TRYING to sell them on ebay for well over MSRP, but I don't see too many that actually sell.

The nearest dealer to me is about 200 miles away. A guy here in town managed to buy a couple Coopers about four months ago, thinking he would turn around and sell them for a profit. I drive by one of them everyday. It sits in a parking lot with a For Sale sign in the window. He is asking $23,500. I don't think he will ever sell it at that price.

 

OK, I just got a reply from a dealer. They said that none of the boats are 100% full of MINIs. That all the boats originate from Germany and have majority BMWs on board. According to him, it is possible to have 2500 cars on a boat. But he said it would be normal for 90% of those cars to be BMWs and 10% MINIs. So he said it was very possible 6500 cars are backlogged (he hasn't checked lately to see), but the vast majority of them are most likely not MINIs... but other BMWs and whatnot. He said if that many MINIs were coming, they would definitely know.

 

>>OK, I just got a reply from a dealer. They said that none of the boats are 100% full of MINIs. That all the boats originate from Germany and have majority BMWs on board. According to him, it is possible to have 2500 cars on a boat. But he said it would be normal for 90% of those cars to be BMWs and 10% MINIs. So he said it was very possible 6500 cars are backlogged (he hasn't checked lately to see), but the vast majority of them are most likely not MINIs... but other BMWs and whatnot. He said if that many MINIs were coming, they would definitely know.<<




Cheers!
Clover

 

>>
>>>>>>In New Jersey they had a boat with 4000 cars and a few days later a boat with 2500. That caused the backlog we are still trying to get through. According to my math that adds up to 6500 cars. Believe what you want.
>>
>>
>>The only trouble I have with this is, that in order to get 4000 cars in one boat would be very difficult. At (roughly) 145" long, by 67" wide (per MINI), you'd have to have cars stacked 25 cars "wide" by 40 cars "long", and 4 cars "deep". This would be a solid "rectangular prism" of MINI's 483 feet long by 139 feet wide (and 4 car-layers "deep&quot... and this assumes you maximize packing density by stacking them so that they were touching on all sides (and I'm pretty sure they don't ship them that way)!
>>
>>That's a lot of MINI's!
Actaully they get 4000-6000 MINIs on each boat. This is what Amanda At 866 ASK MINI told me.

 

>>OK, I just got a reply from a dealer. They said that none of the boats are 100% full of MINIs. That all the boats originate from Germany and have majority BMWs on board. According to him, it is possible to have 2500 cars on a boat. But he said it would be normal for 90% of those cars to be BMWs and 10% MINIs. So he said it was very possible 6500 cars are backlogged (he hasn't checked lately to see), but the vast majority of them are most likely not MINIs... but other BMWs and whatnot. He said if that many MINIs were coming, they would definitely know.
O.K. I beg to differ but the boats do not have other BMWs on them as they come directly from England. The MINI rep. is the person who has REPEATEDLY told me that the boats are backlogged with MINIs that the boats hold anywhere between 4000-6000 when full and YES a boat with 4000 came in followed with a boat with 2500. If you don't want to believe me call 866 ASK MINI and ask for Amanda. She will verify this and is most helpful. P.S. I dont know that the dealerships really know what is going on, so get your info from MINI.

 

Considering that the sales statistics show 14,000 MINIs sold year-to-date, it is really difficult to believe that there are 6000 MINIs backlogged at one location. Some of the people answering the phones at ASK MINI have actually told people that their MINIs were on trains to Germany! ASK MINI is not always 100% accurate. If there were that many cars backlogged, these forums would be full of very angry people waiting for their MINIs. That has simply NOT been the case. You may believe whatever you like, but I believe that BMWs, the more expensive vehicles, are definitely the majority of cars loaded onto the shipping vessels.

Cheers!
Clover

 

Well people, believe what you want, after all. ignorance is bliss! I have gotten the same story on several calls to ASK MINI, so I tend to believe it. If you don't, then check it out for yourselves.

 

Dude, why don't you admit you're wrong. I want a big "I'm wrong" when you figure this all out.

Go to the WW web site right now and track ANY boat carrying MINIs from England. EVERY SINGLE BOAT originates in Germany almost. I got tracking numbers from several people via roadfly. I checked 5 different boats that have arrived in the past month. Not a SINGLE one had more than 280 MINIs aboard!

I emailed several people/dealers on the roadfly and MINI2 message board. Not a single person is aware of a ship coming to the US full of 100% MINIs. Nobody could even recall one more than 25% MINIs!

Also, Roadfly has sales numbers for MINIs in the US. For the month of August, roughly about 3000 MINIs were sold. This is consistent with the previous months.

Also, a number of people (I also have called MINI on about 10 occasions) say that many of the reps are unknowledgable. That they don't always tell accurate tracking. I can personally vouch for that with experience.

To top it off, go to MINI2... they talk in length about the plant in England. The plant is only capable of producing about 10k cars a month! So how did they suddenly ship 6500 to 1 US port when they usually ship 75% of their cars per month to Europe/Asia???

Nothing, and I mean nothing you say adds up. You can't find anyone to back up this 6500 number. Bring me proof, factual proof. The 6500 cars at the New Jersey port probably includes 6000 BMWs and 500 MINIs.

 

>>O.K. I beg to differ but the boats do not have other BMWs on them as they come directly from England. The MINI rep. is the person who has REPEATEDLY told me that the boats are backlogged with MINIs that the boats hold anywhere between 4000-6000 when full and YES a boat with 4000 came in followed with a boat with 2500. If you don't want to believe me call 866 ASK MINI and ask for Amanda. She will verify this and is most helpful. P.S. I dont know that the dealerships really know what is going on, so get your info from MINI.

Have you tried calling MINI and talking to someone other than Amanda? I think I've pinpointed the problem right there. Also, specifically ask these questions:

1. Why does the WW web site say the ship truely originate in Germany, and NOT England.
2. Ask what these ships arrive with onboard when they come to England.

For example, there was only 158 MINIs on the boat with my car on it. The rest were BMWs. This is a FACT I can back up with true REAL data from WW. Please show us your FACTS.

I don't want to be a smart ***, but don't get in a debate if you have no facts to back yourself up. I love facts... they shed the true light.

 

>>Dude, why don't you admit you're wrong. I want a big "I'm wrong" when you figure this all out.
>>
That they don't always tell accurate tracking. I can personally vouch for that with experience.
>>
>>Well, first I am not a dude. Second you will get your "I am wrong" as soon as you learn to speak and write English. I am simply telling you what MINI themselves told me repeatedly. (and, yes I HAVE spoken to several people other than Amanda. She is just the one I happened to speak to yeaterday. I have spoken with Percy, Doug, the list goes on, but the story stays the same...) Furthermore, who cares? You believe what you want. I really don't care. The original thread was about MSRP. I was just stating why I beleive they will sell below MSRP in the next year. Ultimately time will tell.

 

>>>>Dude, why don't you admit you're wrong. I want a big "I'm wrong" when you

>>>>Well, first I am not a dude. Second you will get your "I am wrong" as soon as you learn to speak and write English.

Should this thread be moved to the "Let's step outside" Forum?

 

>>>>>>Dude, why don't you admit you're wrong. I want a big "I'm wrong" when you
>>
>>>>>>Well, first I am not a dude. Second you will get your "I am wrong" as soon as you learn to speak and write English.
>>
>>Should this thread be moved to the "Let's step outside" Forum? :smile: