(posted on another forum, so may be a repeat to some of you)

Here's the deal..

I REALLY love the new '08 Audi TT 2.0T, but everything I've read suggests it will only be available with the DSG. I HATE automatics....

Does anyone have any experience with the DSG? I've read great things about it, but I can't see it being as much fun as a traditional 6 speed manual. The 6 cylinder version comes with a 6speed, but I really prefer turboed 4s.

I really like the car, and may eventually replace my MCS with it. Can anyone shine some light on this little obstacle? lol

Thanks.

 

Howdy,
I subscribe to 4 major car mags and have NEVER heard a bad review of the VW\Audi DSG tranny. It is the only time they EVER recommend an automatic over the 6-speed. Dual clutches, faster than manual shifting, better gas mileage and steering wheel mounted paddles. I test drove both trannies in an 06 GTI and was pleasantly surprised by the DSG....very smooth and the paddles were a blast. You should test drive yourself!

Good luck!

 

IMHO the DSG is very fun, it operates beautifully (mcuh better then SMG) and I love the rev matching and the swift smooth gear changes that give you instant power/control. Thing is, when I drive I can be just as happy focusing all of the aspects of piloting the car, steering, braking timing, gear change, throttle control, observing the traffic/environment, all of the physics and focus involved and I don't require the clutch to be actively engaged - but YMMV, it is a very individual thing. The hydrolic clutch transmissions do require a bit of relearning and technique to optimize them - perhaps you should try a few test drives to see how you like it.

 

Thanks guys. I stopped by one of the local VW dealers today to try it out, but they had no DSG GTI's...they were all manual.

Anyway, I drove the manual GTI and thought it was great. Here's a little comparo I wrote between it and my MCS:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...91#post1315391

 

the DSG is one of the best invention~~~ If you try it, you will know what we mean~

 

I test drove an '06 A3 prior to getting the MINI. Really liked the DSG and probably would have gotten it if the price had been more in line with what the MCS was.

Very smooth, very quick.

 

Yeah, I'd say try the A3 DSG, the TT is an Audi after all

We test drove both the 2.0 and the 3.2; IMHO nothing replaces a nice strong smooth na engine (esp nice with the quattro vs fwd)

 

Automobile magazine just named the '06 VW GTI as their automobile of the year. They again praised the DSG tranny, too.

Keep in mind, the DSG is FASTER than the 6-speed manual tranny! The 6-speed manual took 7.0 seconds to get to 60 MPH, while the DSG took 6.6 seconds.

Here is a link to a video on YouTube showing a comparison with two identical red GTI's, with both transmissions, and their results match Automobile Magazine's observations: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmMNRQ1GJ3o

 

DSG IS the future ... Why do F1 cars all shift via paddles?

The fact is, the computer can shift far faster than any human being.

Want a new 997 TT? Look at the 0 - 60 or 1/4 mile times. Guess why the Tip is faster than manual and that is W/O DSG.

Now go read the Kelli thread again. Guess why Porsche is taking over VW. The rumours are very rampant now that 08 997s WILL have DSG followed quickly by the rest of the lines.

 

on those DSG's, does the accelerator pedal feel connected to the drivetrain
like on a MT car with a clutch pedal, or is it more of a loose torque converter
feel?

 

Funny, the drive by wire throttle on the BMWs manual, auto and SMG always felt the same to me The only thottle feel that really really was connected and immediate was the older, none drive by wire ones as I had on my 2000 3 series (even the M cars with DBW had that disconnect).

I can't compare the throttle feel for you since I've only driven the DSG, but it feels as good as the bimmers adn Minis response wise to the best of my recollection.

 

well, it's during the minute on/off throttle inputs where you can tell
the difference between a clutch and torque converter. that loose feel
until pressure builds up in the tc is wat's been bugging me while driving
AT's quickly. my 06 civic's got drive by wire and with the AT, it feels
even more obvious... it's fine when you're just driving slow kicking back,
but when you're actively driving the car the tc gets pretty annoying.

was wondering if DSG eliminates that since there is a physical clutch....

 

I see what you mean - with regards to the 'accelerator feeling connected to the drivetrain' I just found that the throttle itself felt exactly the same in the BMWs, the DBW being the culprit that added the play in the pedal for all of the transmissions and putting in the level of disconnect/delay with the minute inputs. As for the role of the torque converter, well that is not even in play with the DSG as you know, so no that is not a factor, but it is also DBW so there is that. Sounds like you should take a test drive though to see .

Aside from that, obviously not all auto transmisions or the ECU software are created equal, and from the sound of it the Honda is not quite the same as the step trannies set-ups that BMW, Mercedes, etc use anyway, which can be very quick - in manual mode I can't recall any feel of waiting for power to build up, just keep it in the revs and go (factoring out the DBW and any gear change lag which you either remove with software or it becomes second nature to compensate for with gear change timing).

 

cool, thanks Eval. the shift up/down speed is not an issue on the
civic as i can time how fast or slow it actually reacts after i move the
lever. as long as it is consistent (which it is) i can blip the throttle
on a downshift a little to smooth out the downshift.

it's just the throttle input (in the same gear) to when the actually
drivetrain responds.. that "play" is very bothersome.

btw, the 06 civic AT's do not have a manual mode. im just moving
the shifter lever around to hold a gear. its too bad they only
gave it 1,2,D3,D5. i want to shift and hold 4th!

otherwise smooth shifting for the most part. the previous 04 civic
i had shifted much smoother.

 

The other thing I've heard is that the DSG type of trans is cheaper to build then a good Auto, and more reliable. DSG or similar trans are the future, auto manufactures would love to be able to build just one trans type. The DSG covers the people who don't want a manual and I'd say that many manual trans drivers would probably not let it stop them from getting the car they want.

This doesn't cover the "hard cord" manual trans hold outs, but in the US, they aren't really the majority. Already most sedans, vans and SUVs/CUVs only come in auto. The one thing that I don't like about the DSG style (well actually automatics in general) is switching from 1st to reverse and back. Things like three-point turns, or parking are just a bit more of a hassle because you have to look at an indicator to know you're in reverse, where in a manual there is no mistake.


If the cost, reliability and longevity of DSG type transmissions all line up, it could be only a generation away from being 100% of all the cars sold in the US.

 

i checked out the VW's site for the 4door GTI. cool stuff, came out to
about $28K, so roughly a good candidate for my future commuter.

 

the 997 tt being fast in auto is the result of a variety of variables. first off the car is turbocharged so automatics have an upper hand over a manual turbo car since there is no disconnect between the transmission and engine and the turbo is kept on charge(im ashs\amed to say i cant recall the real term right now, though boost actually isnt the answer, and charge may be the right word afterall) this is probably the real reason why the auto is faster (the sky and solstice redline and gxp automatics are faster than there manual counterparts for the same reason), but theres also the potential that...

the autos loss of one gear may make it better suited to sprint times, where as the manual may have to waste time doing an upshift where the auto doesnt

im sure if i took soem more time i could think of plenty of other reasons the auto may be faster in a straight line, but nevertheless, you are correct in saying automated clutch transmissions are faster than there driver clutch activated counterparts

 

I understand what you mean, but I don't know if I can put it in a correct writing.

THere is no feeling of loosing torque or a short hesitation when shifintg with DSG. If you're running on 2nd gear the 3rd gear is already spinning at the same time, as soon as you tap the paddle the gear will just shift to the next. It feels like aggressive shifting without the hiccup of releasing the clutch. There is a sport mode where the engine will keep the RPM up higher and longer. If you floored in any mode it will not shift until you hit the red line.

If you get the new 07+ GTI with a DSG now check with the dealer to see if they already activate the Lunch Control. This is really cool feature that I don't have in my 06 GTI, but some people took it to the dealer to get them activate it. Put the car in Sport mode and hold the break and gas the engine will hold the RPM at 3K and as soon as you let go the break the car will take off.

 

MyPocketRocket- thanks for the info. As long as there is no disconnected feel while working the gas pedal that just might be enough to seriously consider the DSG option.

The only other factor is that Chicago roads can be very boring to motor without a MT.

 

I'll be the fly in the ointment here and say I don't like DSG. I had a couple of TT's a few years back and excitedly waited for the 3.2 to come out in 2004. It was DSG only and after a couple of test drives, I decided it just wasn't for me. Flash forward to last January when I was shopping for an A3. Test drove two different 3.2's with DSG (only), then a 2.0T with manual and decided the 3.2 and its transmission wasn't for me. I fully understand it's faster and that it and its like will be integrated more and more in the future, but for now, I just don't like or want it. On some forums, it's implied that I'm an idiot for wanting the "archaic" three pedals, but why can't we just have choices and respect other's?

 

mtb- what exactly did you not like about the DSG?

i have no bias towards or against it as i haven't tried DSG yet.

 

If I recall correctly from posts in the past he doesn't like any non manual transmissions - so any other aspects/positives may not be the issue, I dunno.

 

Well yes I have a bias towards three pedal manuals. My dad taught me to drive one 30+ years ago and all but a handful of my many cars over the years have had one. I find something very visceral and satisfying about the synergy between hand, foot, and mind and its connection to the driving experience.
The DSG to me is still an automatic. I know how it works, it's a manual with two clutches with electronic control. It will also override your decisions if it thinks you're not reacting correctly. In manual mode, it still doesn't give you total freedom. In Sport mode, it was very jerky. In Auto mode, it's not as smooth as a slushbox. The handful of overall owners who post on enthusiast forums will use the various modes, to the vast majority of buyers, it's an auto. Ask any honest VW or Audi salesman and he'll tell you that most buyers think of it as automatic with gimmicks.

 

>> I also enjoy the connection between "between hand, foot, and mind and its connection to the driving experience" it just doesn't always have to involve the left foot (there is a lot more to driving and observing things, and yes finessing any transmission, the the clutch and it is still visceral - that is if you are open to it).

>> Well, it seems then since you don't like anything without 3 pedals flat out that no matter what you will be negative about it and therefore unable to give a fair point of view/review of it. I've driven DSG and it was very smooth, even in Sport mode (it held the revs quite high but still was not jerky) maybe you are thinking of SMG or were not using the throttle correctly. As for the forums, I did look around and it seems like a lot of people like the transmission, like anything people have different opinions, it doesn't mean any one is right or true, and certainly I don't go to any car sales people for what to think or know about a car

 

thanks for the input. about this "It will also override your decisions if it thinks you're not reacting correctly. In manual mode, it still doesn't give you total freedom."

does that mean that the DSG will automatically shiftup at redline and not
bounce off the engine limiter? if that's the case, that is a HUGE
nono in the design.

how about the downshift? would it downshift into the lower gear when
you are near or slightly over redline, or does it lock you out until you
are about 1k or 1.5k below redline?

sometimes redline shift up is needed on a wide/awkward turn.