500k - 2m+ are not what I would call collectable.

they are museum pieces. no regular person could ever afford them.

i dont even like seeing them, becuase its just stupid to ever pay that kind of money for a car like that.

If you buy a car you drive it. you dont let it sit and collect dust, i dont care how much you paid for it.

 

They're rare, but not that rare. The scarce years are 1970 and 1971, and there were 25 convertible hemicudas made in those two years (14 in 1970 and 11 in 1971).

And if you read up more on the whole convertible hemicuda thing, you'll find out that the huge-dollar ones are NOT being restored to 100% original condition. On at least one of the 1971 examples, it wasn't even restored to the original colour, and they're *still* bringing insane amounts of money at auction.

All this Mopar-mania is giving me hope about selling my 1972 Dodge Charger 440...

Scott

 

That's why I have a lot of respect for Jay Leno as a car collector. He'll buy some old car, spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to restore it, and then actually *drive* the damned thing on public roads. He probably cuts the value in half the first time he starts the engine, but he sure looks like he's having a blast.

Scott

 

Eleven, actually. There were 7 American-market cars, the rest were Canadian and overseas.

 

I agree, the MINI just isn't going to be collectable. Even the GP has too high production numbers. I have a Lotus Europa, Lotus' first mid-engined street car. Only ~9k were made from '67 through '74; it's doubtful more than 50% of those are still on the road or even in a restorable condition. It's not going to be a collector car. It's value will probably increase over the next 10 or so years but it's not going to bring in any real money. Not until there's only a couple hundred left (and mine is one of the only stock ones) will it be worth any real money. Of course, this is assuming Collin's masterpiece won't blow up, catch on fire, or fall apart in its un-modded state.

 

Thats one thing i lack in my knowlage of mopars.

I have absolutely no idea about foreign (non us) cars.

We got a "Export Tag" 68 Charger R/T in the shop and i was amazed. I assume it was ordered by a GI overseas and shipped to a US dealer, but still getting an export tage as it was ordered out of the country.

 

Hehe, thats where things get icky.

for some reason, 71-74 B Bodies havent picked up yet. I dont know why.

We finished a 73 Roadrunner for a customer recently and it was apraised at just over 30, or about what he had into it. So he broke even or lost money on the car, but its a replica of the car he drove in high school, so I guess monitary value is of no use to him.



Its no Hemi car, but to him, i think its worth much more than that.


I'm in the same boat with my Mustang. I have a 73 Mach 1. Its an odd car, stripe delete, spoiler delete, hubcap car, 351 2v c6 2.73 9" car, and its yellow and ginger. Its an odd car, but I bet for the next few years, it wont be worth anywhere near $25k, but like the roadrunner above, it doesnt matter to me, I ownt ever sell it, it was my first car.

 

Frankly, I don't think the 71-74 B-bodies look as good as the 68-70 ones. (And I'm saying this even though I own a 1972).

But the really funny thing is that the sales of the 1971 model were a LOT higher than the 1970 cars, which shows that at the time, the public had grown tired of the older cars and welcomed the new body style. But thirty-five years later, it's the 68-70 cars that are the "classics", while the later ones haven't yet begun to appreciate. It just goes to show how hard it is to predict what cars will become classics later.

Scott

 

Its only a matter of time.

Wether they make another dukes of hazzard movie and remove a few more chargers from the face of the earth, or we just plain run out of 68-70 B bodies, the later models will, eventualy, grow in value.

From that I hear, right now there are only 10-15% the 68-70 B-Bodies left on the road or in restorable condition. Thats a VERY small number considering how few there were to begin with. (At least compared to the numbers of the other big companies at the time) I find it hard to believe that the other 85-90% of the cars were either too far gone or otherwise crushed or destroyed, but thats just what I have read.

I know this myself as the sales of 67-68 mustang fastbacks have seemed to push up the values of 69-70 and 71-73 cars.

 

I think in about 40+ years, the GP might have a shot at being collectible. It all depends on how many are left, and condition. Maybe there will be someone who bought it new, drove it on weekends, kept it garaged, etc. To say that this or that car has a shot or not is just speculation. I don't know how many MINIs are produced every year, but 1000+ is probably less than 10% of production. I don't think that 40 years ago they were doing anything close to the kinds of production numbers were seeing today. If someone wants to kill some time and come up with collectibles (not classics) as a percentage of total production, that would be interesting.(I don't have time for that) Also, who knows what kind of gas we'll be using, or what other kinds of technology we will have in the future. Will we even be able to drive our collectors item? I don't think anyone in the 50's or 60's would ever have dreamed of ECU's, OBD's, and all these other things in my car that I have no idea what they are or what they do. Our current technology will be as archaic as that of the gas guzzling muscle car, and it will be special and for those who want to own one in mint condition, it will have value.

 

Well, in 5 years, there have been somewhere in the neigborhood of a million R50, R52 and R53 MINI's Produced.

In 40 years, I HIGHLY doubt that 10% of that number will still be on the road.

Today it seems we go thru cars much faster than we used to, but on the flipside, cars these days last considerably longer than car used to.

Service life for our cars is somewhere around 150,000 miles. cars come with a 4 year waranty and they will usually run that distance fairly well.

Cars of the old days had NO warranty (Or something like a 1 or 2 month powertrain waranty), and had a service life of about 75,000 miles or less!

Using that, i would be hesiatant to say that there would be 20% of these cars still left on the road n 40 years.

 

So basically in 40 years the 1st gen MINI, not to mention the GP's and JCW's will be relatively hard to find in great condition. With inflation and other financial considerations, probably not the smartest investment opportunity, but I bet someone who has a well maintained GP with decent mileage will probably sell for a tidy profit (assuming original ownership). I will have one foot in the grave at that point, if I last that long.

 

Someone 40 years from now will certainly sell a GP for more than the current $31k MSRP, but it will hardly be a profit for them, considering the opportunity cost.

$31k invested today with an average 9% annual return-on-investment would be worth $992,000 in 40 years. How many million-dollar GP sales do you think there will be in forty years?

And don't forget that the GP was designed from the start to be a limited-production collectible car. So a higher percentage of GPs will reach the age of forty in unmolested condition, diminishing the rarity and the value at any point in the future.

 

Matt

 

We are all entitled to our opinions. Clearly that is not the opinion of the very rich. Its a hobby to them just as modding a MINI is a hobby to many of this board.

Its in those cars that money is to be made IF you want to collect cars instead of coins, stamps, etc.

In the late 80s I was at a Bimmer Octoberfest thing and some older Ferraris showed up. Somebody came with a Ferrari GTO. At the time, it was worth $1M ... today $6M Some have sold at $15M in the early 90s. (price has come down). Everyone was a bit at awe that this guy drove a $1M car to a Beer and Brats party ... thinking him a bit nuts.

Yeah Leno is cool. On Discovery Channel he took is Carerra GT out to see if you could break 200 MPH on a track. Nope. He spun out. Laughed the whole way while everyone else was freaking out.

On some other show, he gave a refurnished vette to an owner of a comedy club. It was VERY cool.

1M sold worldwide. 2000 GPs. Thats a huge number. But how many were MCS? More MC and MINI One are sold than MCS. Even in the US its about a 50/50 split with more MCS in the last year or two.

But you can say that about the Aztec too In fact one Autoblog says the Aztec got a huge rap from everyone simply because GM priced it wrong and to the wrong market. If marketing and sold at the right price ... it might have sold more. Since it had a limited run ... who knows some day?

As to the first part ... that is exactly what a Indy Mustang and another Camaro on BJ was sold as ... They just kept the car garaged. Sold at auction for MSRP. They lost money because of the cost to garage the thing.

I though the GP is being touted as a track car, not a collectible. I thought MINI wants to see them racing the car? No?

 

Here and now, not many places. But, if you take any 40-year window in history, a 9% ROI isn't unrealistic.

 

So were '78 Pace Car Vettes.


The car is valued at $18-30K today. (NADA)

The car, in 1978 would have cost about $20,000 new.

Now, using those numbers, and using the Inflation Calcultor, if you bought a 1978 Pace Car Vette with an L82 and the 4 speed, with factory air, and left it in a climate controlled garage, stored exactly as the car came from the factory, you would have sucessfully lost yourself about $13,500.

so that about a negative 67.5% return from your purchase.

 

the only way to know FOR SURE what will be classic, collectable or both is with hindsight.... It's tough to predict the fickle nature of what captures peoples attention.

With the old big blocks, they sure didn't sell as well as they could have (guess there weren't enough speculators then!). Maybe all the people that wanted them couldn't afford them at the time....

When middle age (plus or minus) sets in with a lot more disposible income, what wasn't bought then gets bought now.....

So, if you're looking to make a profit on a car in the future, it might make sense to look for a car that young people want, but can't afford.

Ah, it's a theory.....

Matt

And who does know about the Aztec.... It's basically the same thing as the whatever the Tiger was pushing in some adds.... And that one sold!

 

Buick Rendevouz?

 

Same item in another dress...

Matt

 

Much nicer wardrobe on the Buick... The practicality of the Aztec was pretty cool at the time, hideous looks, IMO though.

 

Oh, Tony...........

 

That theory is exactly what the commentators on BJ say all the time. Baby Boomers couldnt barely afford to buy a used anything as a teenager. Drooled over a 427/435 Vette they would never own. Now they can buy one for 20X the original price! (not adjusted for inflation)

Will that work in the future? Speculate on what teenagers want now? I don't think that model will hold up. Another theory.

We ate, slept, dreamed, went to the drags, etc looking at Muscle Cars. Everyone knew what a GTO was or a Superbird. Ford, Chevy everyone raced at Nascar. Everyone knew a 429 Ford was a detuned Nascar engine.

Do kids these day do that with any car? (maybe the CA blingy, neon underlight crowd does) ... So maybe those Dodge Neons with the glowing underlights will be worth a fortune in 20 years

 

and that funky rear window with a panel below the winggy thinggy has come back to life.... On the Toyota Prius! And the concept of the extendable camper and the like was pretty cool too.

I wonder how the Buick would have done if the adds had been "Aztec, with a facelift!" But whatever, some rental agencies must have gotten some really good deals on the Aztecs.... The rental agency that my old company used had tons of them....

Fickle people.....

And maybe the day of the good car for collectibility is over. Now we have "world platforms" that mean cars really differ now more in the skin than the bones. Also, I can't think of many really nice and affordable low production affordable cars. I don't think the 2000 GPs world wide are a large number., so it may have a chance. Remember all the hyper rare 60s cars were mostly US models, and some have really low production numbers just by virtue of the options selected.

I also think the days of approachable racing are gone as well. Thats why I like the club events, and the vintage stuff. While I'm a big fan of modern fuel injection/computer control, it sure ups the ante when it comes to tools needed to go fast. The distributor on my old Fiat could be gapped with a dime if you couldn't get a screwdriver, and tuning by rotating the destributor and listening worked as good as anything else! Not so easy now.....

Matt

 

Two good points.

As to the first, if you remember 20 years ago, Muscles Cars were not worth much at all. Italian exotics were where the money was. A prime example is the Ferrari GTO. Sold for $1M in about 86. By early 90s ... $15M. Then the bubble burst ... now about $6M. But GTOs were rare to begin with ... basically race cars sold to the public

Ferraris selling for $20K originally shot up into six figures only to plummet back to $20K when Muscle Cars took over because of the Baby Boomers. Many people seem to question how long the Muscle Car bubble will last ... when will it collapse?

Again, it all goes back to numbers. Some think in 10 years or so it will be back to the true exotics built in very low numbers while the Muscle Cars take a big hit.

Who know? Nobody.

As to racing, In 1971, in college, I bought a new model ... Datsun 240Z. Went to SCCA races ... new that if I bought some headers, and trip weber sidedrafts I "could" race in D Production (I believe) ... However, being a poor college kid ... its was more like ... sell that expensive car you idiot and get something practical till your working

Then came showroom stock and wondered ... Whats the point of racing in a car right off the showroom floor without any improvements. I guess showroom stock has come a long way in 30 years and is the affordable way to do it. Good for them