Porsche Cayenne S (PICS PICS PICS)
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: 14605
Thanks for the pic's , Dave .... i haven't looked closly at that yet so it's nice to see some detail shots ...
And so it has come to pass that 'SUV', '4-Wheel Drive', and 'Off Road' mean quite different things these days ... in functionality, symbology, construction ... With the exception of a couple like Land Rover, there aren't many that can be all three; I can see the Cayenne being used off-road a lot more than , say, an Excursion or Escalade - just because of the sporting crowd that they are trying to sell it to. The only mistake Porche may have made with this thing is that it is about 2 or 3 years late to the game ... but getting a sporty beast to the market for the owners of their other products was probably the only way they could hope to keep those guys after their growing families left the nests ... tell 'em to go shopping somewhere else for a different vehical and they might never come back ...
Porche is building vehicles that people, somewhere, want - and if I ever were to be in the market for anything close to that, i sure would look at them first before ever thinking about many of the competions' offerings ...
And so it has come to pass that 'SUV', '4-Wheel Drive', and 'Off Road' mean quite different things these days ... in functionality, symbology, construction ... With the exception of a couple like Land Rover, there aren't many that can be all three; I can see the Cayenne being used off-road a lot more than , say, an Excursion or Escalade - just because of the sporting crowd that they are trying to sell it to. The only mistake Porche may have made with this thing is that it is about 2 or 3 years late to the game ... but getting a sporty beast to the market for the owners of their other products was probably the only way they could hope to keep those guys after their growing families left the nests ... tell 'em to go shopping somewhere else for a different vehical and they might never come back ...
Porche is building vehicles that people, somewhere, want - and if I ever were to be in the market for anything close to that, i sure would look at them first before ever thinking about many of the competions' offerings ...
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pug poo picker-upper
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From: California
I was thinking about this during the afternoon. The ///M5, the 911, and the Cayenne - all are ~ 400 hp, all three have similarly bad fuel economy, and all three could be perceived as being "excessive."
I sincerely wish Porsche good will for the Cayenne, because they have invested the future of the company in it. Future interesting products depend on it being successful. My ability to purchase a new porsche later in life depend on Porsche having enough development dollars to continue to bring to market a quality product.
FWIW, my $0.02
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I sincerely wish Porsche good will for the Cayenne, because they have invested the future of the company in it. Future interesting products depend on it being successful. My ability to purchase a new porsche later in life depend on Porsche having enough development dollars to continue to bring to market a quality product.
FWIW, my $0.02
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From: Denver
OK, having been a Porschephile all of my life - quite literally - I have to chime in (and I was there for the pics!).
When Porsche first announced they were going to build an SUV, I was appalled. When they pulled out of top level racing to fund the Leipzig plant the Cayenne is built in, I wanted to disavow any affiliation with them.
I've thought this over since then though. The Leipzig plant ended up being the plant where Porsche will build the Carrera GT as well, so maybe they (being the car guys that they are) tried to get Dad to buy the toy they wanted to play with.
Porsche seems to run into this problem with whatever car they introduce bar the very first one.
When the first 911 (actually called a 901 but changed due to a lawsuit from Peugeot) was shown to replace the 356, which had already enjoyed a 16 year production run, the purists screamed bloody murder! The 911, as advanced as it was, was not considered a real Porsche - it was a big, heavy, 6 cylinder for the love of all that's good in the world.
Then came the 914 - don't even get me started with the animosity over the VW/Porsche arrangement...
After that, Porsche had the audacity to come up with not one, but two watercooled, front engine designs - has hell frozen over???
Now look at what Porsche has done - an SUV!!
The market tells our beloved marques what to produce. The simple fact is, as DiD has already eloquently stated, that in order for Porsche to continue as an independent, family owned business, they need to come up with a cash cow to avoid the same issues they had in the eighties. This gives them the money to develop new and more exciting cars - the GT3, the Carrera GT, and the next 911 variant (that car that everyone was so opposed to in 1964).
Porsche, there is no substitute.
BTW, the Cayenne did look much better in person, and it laps the Nurburgring faster than the new Boxster S
When Porsche first announced they were going to build an SUV, I was appalled. When they pulled out of top level racing to fund the Leipzig plant the Cayenne is built in, I wanted to disavow any affiliation with them.
I've thought this over since then though. The Leipzig plant ended up being the plant where Porsche will build the Carrera GT as well, so maybe they (being the car guys that they are) tried to get Dad to buy the toy they wanted to play with.
Porsche seems to run into this problem with whatever car they introduce bar the very first one.
When the first 911 (actually called a 901 but changed due to a lawsuit from Peugeot) was shown to replace the 356, which had already enjoyed a 16 year production run, the purists screamed bloody murder! The 911, as advanced as it was, was not considered a real Porsche - it was a big, heavy, 6 cylinder for the love of all that's good in the world.
Then came the 914 - don't even get me started with the animosity over the VW/Porsche arrangement...
After that, Porsche had the audacity to come up with not one, but two watercooled, front engine designs - has hell frozen over???
Now look at what Porsche has done - an SUV!!
The market tells our beloved marques what to produce. The simple fact is, as DiD has already eloquently stated, that in order for Porsche to continue as an independent, family owned business, they need to come up with a cash cow to avoid the same issues they had in the eighties. This gives them the money to develop new and more exciting cars - the GT3, the Carrera GT, and the next 911 variant (that car that everyone was so opposed to in 1964).
Porsche, there is no substitute.
BTW, the Cayenne did look much better in person, and it laps the Nurburgring faster than the new Boxster S
5th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Los Angeles, CA
I saw a black one here at USC (University of Spoiled Children? Maybe) and should have taken pics - it's a striking car in person. However, so is the Volkswagen Taureg. Granted, the Taureg has slightly different mechanicals, but they look almost identical. Anyway, I think Porsche could have done better on that front.
My issue with Porsche: yes, they make fantastic cars that race superbly and drive extremely well, BUT - the 996 is basically the same design as the 995, 994, 993, 992, etc. etc. I assume the 997 will have no great changes to the design other than a differently shaped headlight and grill. This is laziness. Sloth. Resting on your laurels (quite literally, actually). So I'm not a big fan.
And, to those who don't like the FX45 - go test drive one. My dad is thinking about buying one so I went on a test drive with him to give him opinions on the tiptronic, suspension, etc. It drives and feels like a car with the carrying capacity of an SUV. It's great! And personally, I love the looks. Jaguarphiles will hate me for saying this, but looking over the hood reminds me of my uncle's E-type Jaguar - it's very curvaceous and sporty. Plus, it will out-accelerate a BMW X5 4.6is. I'm not sure if it'll beat the Cayenne S, but you get the picture. It's a fantastic car. I think Infiniti is finally growing some ***** and coming out with some designs that are memorable, unlike everything they've made the past 8 years. Nissan too. Very cool products coming from that brand - a real rising star. I can't wait to see the new GTR.
My issue with Porsche: yes, they make fantastic cars that race superbly and drive extremely well, BUT - the 996 is basically the same design as the 995, 994, 993, 992, etc. etc. I assume the 997 will have no great changes to the design other than a differently shaped headlight and grill. This is laziness. Sloth. Resting on your laurels (quite literally, actually). So I'm not a big fan.
And, to those who don't like the FX45 - go test drive one. My dad is thinking about buying one so I went on a test drive with him to give him opinions on the tiptronic, suspension, etc. It drives and feels like a car with the carrying capacity of an SUV. It's great! And personally, I love the looks. Jaguarphiles will hate me for saying this, but looking over the hood reminds me of my uncle's E-type Jaguar - it's very curvaceous and sporty. Plus, it will out-accelerate a BMW X5 4.6is. I'm not sure if it'll beat the Cayenne S, but you get the picture. It's a fantastic car. I think Infiniti is finally growing some *****
and coming out with some designs that are memorable, unlike everything they've made the past 8 years. Nissan too. Very cool products coming from that brand - a real rising star. I can't wait to see the new GTR.
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From: Denver
You couldn't be more wrong about the 911 design evolution.
The 911 became the 964 in 1989. This was a giant leap in technology change - new generation Motronic fuel injection, 3.6 liters, new gearbox tunnel design, coilover suspension as opposed to the torsion bar set up they had in the 911 since 1964, a new interior, new bumpers and new light design.
In 1995, the 964 became the 993. It again was a giant leap forward, with the first total body redesign since 1964. The interior was again new, and the motor had again been upgraded to include new intake technology that varied runner size and used an even newer Motronic variation with a redesigned gearbox. The rear suspension was a complete departure from the 964 design, and made some pretty amazing ideas work.
In 1999, the 993 became the 996, with the largest change in the 911 design since its intro. It became watercooled! The motor is completely new - from the ground up. It incorporates varioram technology, e-throttle gas, and Motronic 7.2. The new 996 has a totally new body as well. The interior was once again redesigned and the suspension has been reengineered yet again. There have been model year changes that have included new bumper and spoiler designs, as well as engine enhancements.
I can only see amazing things coming for the 997 - including the use of a V8!!! The first time the 911 has had anything other than a flat 6. Porsche has done anything but rest, especially in the last ten years.
The fact that all of this has been done to the 911, and you didn't even notice the drastic changes, makes it even more brilliant!
The 911 became the 964 in 1989. This was a giant leap in technology change - new generation Motronic fuel injection, 3.6 liters, new gearbox tunnel design, coilover suspension as opposed to the torsion bar set up they had in the 911 since 1964, a new interior, new bumpers and new light design.
In 1995, the 964 became the 993. It again was a giant leap forward, with the first total body redesign since 1964. The interior was again new, and the motor had again been upgraded to include new intake technology that varied runner size and used an even newer Motronic variation with a redesigned gearbox. The rear suspension was a complete departure from the 964 design, and made some pretty amazing ideas work.
In 1999, the 993 became the 996, with the largest change in the 911 design since its intro. It became watercooled! The motor is completely new - from the ground up. It incorporates varioram technology, e-throttle gas, and Motronic 7.2. The new 996 has a totally new body as well. The interior was once again redesigned and the suspension has been reengineered yet again. There have been model year changes that have included new bumper and spoiler designs, as well as engine enhancements.
I can only see amazing things coming for the 997 - including the use of a V8!!! The first time the 911 has had anything other than a flat 6. Porsche has done anything but rest, especially in the last ten years.
The fact that all of this has been done to the 911, and you didn't even notice the drastic changes, makes it even more brilliant!
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Long Island, New York
ahhhh...there they are :smile:
i want those 964 rims on my MCS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PERFECT
thanks.... randy
btw ...i must add....
i just traded in my new 996 porsche for a MCS, and i don't regret it at all....
rofl
right
peace,
d
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2002 MCS:PS/B, w/Lapis Int.
i want those 964 rims on my MCS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PERFECT
thanks.... randy
btw ...i must add....
i just traded in my new 996 porsche for a MCS, and i don't regret it at all....
rofl
right
peace,
d
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2002 MCS:PS/B, w/Lapis Int.
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pug poo picker-upper
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From: California
In recent times, has there ever been a Porsche that was introduced that some group of enthusiasts didn't see as being "a real Porsche?"
Wasn't this beauty accused of watering down the brand?
Wasn't this beauty accused of watering down the brand?
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From: Denver
It absolutely was, Dave. The Boxster ushered in the watercooled flat six that eventually came to reside in the 996.
If any of you have driven the 996 or the Boxster, you know the absolutely amazing sounds these cars make with the new motor. The motor is also more efficient in thermal control and emmisions, while making more power from smaller displacement.
Now I think we can all agree that the Boxster S is one of [b]the[/i] premier sports cars, period.
If any of you have driven the 996 or the Boxster, you know the absolutely amazing sounds these cars make with the new motor. The motor is also more efficient in thermal control and emmisions, while making more power from smaller displacement.
Now I think we can all agree that the Boxster S is one of [b]the[/i] premier sports cars, period.
3rd Gear
Joined: Nov 2002
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From: Libertyville, Illinois
I've been a Porsche mechanic my whole life. I see eye to eye with Randy on this one. (and most other ones!) The 911 has evolved dramatically in its life. It is one of the most tunable cars ever built. Porsche has kept the shape because of concerns from potential buyers that the car they've wanted their whole life is no longer available as they remember it. They've done aremarkable job of modernizing the 911s performance while keeping its classic character in tact.
This is Spud's supercharged stablemate. It is a 1976 Carrera 3.0 with a Whipple twin screw blower and intercooler on a newer 3.6 liter 964 engine with 9:1 compression, twin ignition, Ni-Resist head rings, Carillo rods, bla, bla , bla : 470 hp 2475 pounds. Ruf CTR flares, bumpers and mirrors. Not even Spud comes close! I've had this car for 15 years+ and never named it. Each night, though, I toss a chunk of raw meat to it. While I'm there I toss Spud a cookie!
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<IMG SRC="https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ized.jpg" IMG> SPUD
This is Spud's supercharged stablemate. It is a 1976 Carrera 3.0 with a Whipple twin screw blower and intercooler on a newer 3.6 liter 964 engine with 9:1 compression, twin ignition, Ni-Resist head rings, Carillo rods, bla, bla , bla : 470 hp 2475 pounds. Ruf CTR flares, bumpers and mirrors. Not even Spud comes close! I've had this car for 15 years+ and never named it. Each night, though, I toss a chunk of raw meat to it. While I'm there I toss Spud a cookie!
PerfPow
http://www.perfectpowerinc.com
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<IMG SRC="https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ized.jpg" IMG> SPUD
6th Gear
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From: Chicago, IL
>>Is anyone else a fan of the Infiniti FX45? My husband is a HUGE Porsche fanatic (he actually went to the Cayenne unveiling event here in Boston) but he and I both prefer the Infiniti.
>>
>>
I think the FX45 is a beautiful car. Looks amazing with those wheels. Although I must say I'm not fond on Infiniti interiors
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2002 Dark Silver MCS. Premium / Sport / Nav
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>>
I think the FX45 is a beautiful car. Looks amazing with those wheels. Although I must say I'm not fond on Infiniti interiors
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2002 Dark Silver MCS. Premium / Sport / Nav
3rd Gear
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Denver, CO
>>The well healed always get the best toys. A decade ago, a Lamborghini LM and Countach provided just the right blend of SUV and sportscar action with some parts interchangeability (well at least the same dealership).
If I remember correctly, that Lamborghini truck got literally like 6mpg. It might have even been (3-4mpg).
If I remember correctly, that Lamborghini truck got literally like 6mpg. It might have even been (3-4mpg).
6th Gear
Joined: May 2002
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From: So Cal
I live near Palm Springs. It has nothing to do with the SUV itself. It has everything to do with the name Porsche. 
Palm Springs and (Austin & Dallas TX), and I'm sure everyone has a city near them that they could name, have darling younger drivers whose parents wouldn't let them be seen in anything but a name brand like Porsche, BMW and the like. Thank goodness for mass marketing campaigns! It feeds the american psyche!!!! 
3rd Gear
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Denver, Colorado
Randy-
Thanks for the very detailed history of Porsche. Very interesting. No one should really take anything away from the Porsche legacy. It is truly amazing what they have managed to do over the years.
I totally disagree with earlier comments that the Porsche design team has gotten lazy. I actually consider the fact that the design of the 9XX series hasn't changed that drastically over 30+ years to be a testament to the history of the old 911s and the advanced technology and aerodynamics that they inspired. My neighbor has a 1968 911 that still looks fantastic from a design perspective.
What bothers me more nowadays is how car companies feel they have to completely redesign their cars every 2-3 years in order to spark interest. Obviously there was something wrong to begin with!!
Thanks for the very detailed history of Porsche. Very interesting. No one should really take anything away from the Porsche legacy. It is truly amazing what they have managed to do over the years.
I totally disagree with earlier comments that the Porsche design team has gotten lazy. I actually consider the fact that the design of the 9XX series hasn't changed that drastically over 30+ years to be a testament to the history of the old 911s and the advanced technology and aerodynamics that they inspired. My neighbor has a 1968 911 that still looks fantastic from a design perspective.
What bothers me more nowadays is how car companies feel they have to completely redesign their cars every 2-3 years in order to spark interest. Obviously there was something wrong to begin with!!
1st Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 47
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From: Boston, MA USA
MotorinGirl:
"Is anyone else a fan of the Infiniti FX45? My husband is a HUGE Porsche fanatic (he actually went to the Cayenne unveiling event here in Boston) but he and I both prefer the Infiniti."
RCristiano:
"And, to those who don't like the FX45 - go test drive one. My dad is thinking about buying one so I went on a test drive with him to give him opinions on the tiptronic, suspension, etc. It drives and feels like a car with the carrying capacity of an SUV. It's great! And personally, I love the looks. Jaguarphiles will hate me for saying this, but looking over the hood reminds me of my uncle's E-type Jaguar - it's very curvaceous and sporty. Plus, it will out-accelerate a BMW X5 4.6is. I'm not sure if it'll beat the Cayenne S, but you get the picture. It's a fantastic car. I think Infiniti is finally growing some ***** and coming out with some designs that are memorable, unlike everything they've made the past 8 years. Nissan too. Very cool products coming from that brand - a real rising star. I can't wait to see the new GTR."
MotorinGirl & RCristiano,
I am also a fan of FX45, I think this is the best looking (and performance vs. value) SUV on the market at the moment. I drove X5 4.6is and compared it to FX45, it turns out that I like the FX45 better, FX45 drives quicker and
feels more manuverable. I also tried and drove other SUV (X5 3.0, 4.4, 4.6is, MB ML320, MB G500, New Range Rover HSE), previously I really liked the X5 4.6is but now I preffer FX45 for the look and performance vs. value.
As for Cayenne, it's undoubtly an excellent car, however the price....... well, it's a porsche so it must be excellent :smile: (I'm also a fan of Porsche). If anybody have unlimited budget and looking for SUV go for it, it's SUV with a sports car performance (but be familiar with the turbo-lag)!! I read somewhere that the Cayenne will race on track anytime soon, and will race in Paris-Dakar Rally in the near future(finally Porsche is going back to race in this event). :smile:
"Is anyone else a fan of the Infiniti FX45? My husband is a HUGE Porsche fanatic (he actually went to the Cayenne unveiling event here in Boston) but he and I both prefer the Infiniti."
RCristiano:
"And, to those who don't like the FX45 - go test drive one. My dad is thinking about buying one so I went on a test drive with him to give him opinions on the tiptronic, suspension, etc. It drives and feels like a car with the carrying capacity of an SUV. It's great! And personally, I love the looks. Jaguarphiles will hate me for saying this, but looking over the hood reminds me of my uncle's E-type Jaguar - it's very curvaceous and sporty. Plus, it will out-accelerate a BMW X5 4.6is. I'm not sure if it'll beat the Cayenne S, but you get the picture. It's a fantastic car. I think Infiniti is finally growing some ***** and coming out with some designs that are memorable, unlike everything they've made the past 8 years. Nissan too. Very cool products coming from that brand - a real rising star. I can't wait to see the new GTR."
MotorinGirl & RCristiano,
I am also a fan of FX45, I think this is the best looking (and performance vs. value) SUV on the market at the moment. I drove X5 4.6is and compared it to FX45, it turns out that I like the FX45 better, FX45 drives quicker and
feels more manuverable. I also tried and drove other SUV (X5 3.0, 4.4, 4.6is, MB ML320, MB G500, New Range Rover HSE), previously I really liked the X5 4.6is but now I preffer FX45 for the look and performance vs. value.
As for Cayenne, it's undoubtly an excellent car, however the price....... well, it's a porsche so it must be excellent :smile: (I'm also a fan of Porsche). If anybody have unlimited budget and looking for SUV go for it, it's SUV with a sports car performance (but be familiar with the turbo-lag)!! I read somewhere that the Cayenne will race on track anytime soon, and will race in Paris-Dakar Rally in the near future(finally Porsche is going back to race in this event). :smile:
5th Gear
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 644
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>>The well healed always get the best toys. A decade ago, a Lamborghini LM and Countach provided just the right blend of SUV and sportscar action with some parts interchangeability (well at least the same dealership). Today Porsche does a redeux of Lambo's brilliance, 'Course the same could be said of 'merican iron: a Chevy Suburban and Corvette. As For us, we'll just have to wait a few years for MINI to make a MAXI.
>>
>>Motor On
For some reason I just don't think the LM was as much blashomey as the Chyenne is. Not sure why that is.
>>
>>Motor On
For some reason I just don't think the LM was as much blashomey as the Chyenne is. Not sure why that is.
5th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Western CT
SOT: As I left the gym this morning, I saw an avalanche park next to my MINI. Nothing unusual. Averting the dismounting driver's eyes i threw my sack in the boot and proceeded to the door. He said "pretty cool little car". I said, looking at his big shiny blue truck, "pretty nice big truck".
OK. You can have your thread back.
OK. You can have your thread back.
4th Gear
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 541
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From: Motor City, Detroit, Michigan
Nissan is making some hot looking SUV crossover vehicles. I don't know how they drive but they look great. The interiors are interesting too. The Porsche just doesn't look right to me even though it can probably kick Nissan *****.
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