Do Mini's and Ducati's go together or something ?



I rode to work today - took me under 20 minutes to contend with 22 miles of traffic rather than the usual 30-60......

Mark me down as a long-term biker too, started at the age of about 8 on dirt bike. I ride way less often that I want to, but still get out there from time to time.....

 

Oh yeah... a motorcycle is way more fun - it’s about the only sport I have never gotten bored of in 30 years. I love the Mini too, but mostly because it’s about as close to the thrill of motorcycling as you can get, and yet still be able haul the family and goods.... safely and in bad weather. Here’s what I think the biggest differences are:

Physics: Lateral Gs works with you in lean cornering and against you in flat cornering. Think bicycle vs tricycle/training wheels... snowboard/skis vs flexible flyer. I’m not saying flat cornering sucks, it is fun in its own right, and at the extremes (F1 level) it is faster, but it just doesn’t feel as much fun to do. Then there’s weight... what makes the Mini and Elise such great handlers?? Lack of weight.... a bike is a fraction the weight of a Mini.

Passing Ability: This alone makes the bike way more fun. The bike has at least twice the power to weight ratio and half the width and length of a Mini. It only takes a short straight and about 1 second to execute a clean, safe pass. On my bike, I have the ability to *make* open road. In the Mini I *wait* for open road. Get stuck behind grandama at the beginning of Deal’s Gap in a Mini and you might as well turn around and go back the other way. More discussion HERE.

Control, Involvement, Challenge: Most car enthusiast like manual shifts. Why? It gives you added control over the car, is more involving to drive and is more challenging to perfect smoothness. Well a bike has way more inputs than a car. How you weight the handlebar/foot peg, where you shift your butt on the seat, and how you move your body in the airstream, they all effect your handling. On a bike you even get to brake each wheel individually. Think original video game “Pong” vs today’s Playstations.

Danger: Not all bad, provided you can reasonably control/mitigate it. We each have our own risk tolerance here, but let’s face it, the more dangerous something is, the more exciting it is. What’s your favorite ride at the amusement park?



Having said all that, I must admit that I actually bought the Mini to take mileage away from my motorcycle, perhaps even give it up for good. For I have found the ultimate unmitigatable, uncontrollable, unpredictable risk on the roads now..... and it has nothing to do with other vehicular traffic (which I find highly predictable).

That risk is deer... I’ve hit 5 now (3 on a motorcycle) and am finding an increasing fequency of close calls. Perhaps, it might be time to hang up the leathers .

 

I haven't read the whole thread, but I thought I'd throw in my two cents. I bought a '80 CB400T back in '99 and rode the wheels off that thing for a year. Then I moved to Phoenix and bought a '00 SV650 and did another 25,000 miles on it over the next two years. I did multiple track days, tons of fun Sunday rides, commuting, loooong rides to distant states, and generally had a blast.

In '05 I bought my MCS and sold the SV this past April. I rode the bike only twice once I took delivery of the MINI. For me, you get 90% of the thrills of the bike in a MINI with a far smaller chance of falling off. Some days I do miss the bike, and it was especially a blast on the track (as is the MINI), but I would definitely say I have more fun in the "cage". ;-)

 

I have had bikes on and off since I was 14.... I sold a Harley....not my favorite about a year ago. I have been thinking of a R class BMW lately......

Dead is not the worst it is paralyzed that scares the hell out of me...... I had a very bad mountainbike accident 3 1/2 years ago where I broke my neck... I laid there for about 20 minutes completely paralyzed. Fortunately, my toes started to wiggle and through the grace of God I was rushed to a hospital and for the most part fully recovered.

You can be very defensive and still find yourself in bad situations on the street..... I really like bikes but this is a tough one..... I would be very nervous if my son had a bike let alone one of mt daughters.....

I hold a pilots license and I think overall that is far more dangerous...... statistics per 100,000 hrs bears this out.

My Mini scratches a big itch for me.....

just some thoughts

 

I wonder what happened to the original poster? I'm curious if he was really considering it, tried riding, etc?

It's funny, I can barely even be called a rider but I don't even see how people compare it to driving - it is so completely different in evey way that even the Mini, small and nimble as it is, doesn't come close to approximating the sensation at all.

Seems like some people here have perhaps just gotten older and past the desire for riding and the efforts required, and overall riding is not for everyone - but you can't know how you feel and what it is like until you try it, so I hope the OP does if he is curious.

And bottom line (i know I said it already but you can't stress it too much) get good quality gear - full face helmet, jacket/pants or suit, gloves, boots (and not all black if you want to be seen) - they make all the difference between getting off, or simply laying the bike down standing still, and being okay or not (and keeps the bugs and other stuff out of your eyes ). From what I've seen in general and people I know bicycling can be more dangerous just due to the lack of protection (and other factors), so gear up even if you are just going a few miles, just like wearing seatbelts, you never know.


PS: Snapper, wow, sorry to hear about the deer! Have you tried things like the deer alert whistle, or added lights onto your bike? And if the deer are out to get your maybe try riding on the track?

 

And your point without the insults and personal attacks?

 

I think he is just reacting to the fact that the guy asked about riding and the fun factor and people feel compelled to respond with negativity and grim stories about injuries or death - not only was it not the point, but that there is tons of danger in plenty of other things - as he stated "I consider hearing all these 'my friend' injury stories as very rude and unappreciated."

His reaction may be over the top but it's clearly a sore point as it so often comes up from people who don't ride or just a knee jerk reaction out of context to the issue/question at hand (and doesn't address the circumstances/causes or anything helpful like gear or training). When someone talks about bicycling, horseback riding, driving, snowboarding, having a baby, or whatever people don't jump in on it with negative tales of injuries sustained (and all of those things are hazardous) as people feel free to with motorcycles and thus it pissed him off.

 

I was feeling left out after seeing all the cool bike photos so here are some of ours...

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v4...les/?start=all


A few things I just want to briefly mention in reply to a post about bikers wearing all black for the "cool" factor...

Riding safety tells you to wear light bright colors to increase your visability.
Riding intelligence tells you that those bright colors are not going to keep your skin where it belongs or offer any degree of protection from rocks and other missile type debris that gets kicked up at you unless it is a second skin, a tough hide or simply put, leather. Leathers come in black. Sometimes they come in brown or tan. None of these colors will increase your visibility.
Leathers aren't for cool, they are for saving your skin, comfort and protection. The key is the gear. When you have done everything within your power to protect yourself from the elements, you have freed that much more of your mind up to use towards focusing on handling your bike and anticipating/reading traffic and potential hazards around you. Eliminate the distractions and multiply your focus.

Ok, for arguments sake, the sport bike crowd has the options of red and white as well as other unusual colors. They look real nice on a sport bike but they are inappropriate for other bikes. Picture a drag queen. Now you have the idea....

I strongly disagree with the person that said that the rider courses are over-rated, though it is possible that the one he took was sub-standard. One of the strongest focuses in the course is defensive driving, watching out for the other guy, anticipating hazardous conditions, staying alert and focused and leaving yourself an out. Not just how to manuever the bike around those hazards. The rider course teaches you that there are no "accidents" but instead there are chains of events that culminate with an accident. Maybe you were traveling a little too closely, you took your eyes and focus off the road for the briefest moment as a motorist did the same as they reached for their cell phone or sipped their coffee.... The course teaches you to think about these things as you ride and when put to use regularly, the skills become second nature to you. Unfortunately, the course can only be so many hours long and they can only pack so much instruction into those classes. If you do not have a bike to practice on outside of class it puts you at a great disadvantage. They do recommend that after you pass the course and get some serious time on a bike, that you return for the advanced rider course.

Without making this an entirely too long post and boring you to death I would like to reiterate that even a seasoned rider can learn alot at one of the beginner courses. It gives you a chance to practice new skills and hone old skills in a contrlled environment under the supervision of instructors that have been trained and are adept at picking up, pointing out and showing you how to correct bad habits or poor skills.

As another poster mentioned, his instructor told him that he learns something everytime he rides. He has an ongoing repsect for the motorcycle, is aware of the hazards and above all, he is not cocky in believing that he does not need to continue to work on his riding skills each and every time he swings a leg over the saddle.

 

But most sportbike gear has the reflective material built into it, it is evident on jackets around the shoulders and back area, and on both of our riding pants, they have that same material down the sides, and both of our boots have something similar that reflects. The key is to be protected we don't look all that stylish but were safe

 

Exactly, there are all different kinds of leathers, excellent textiles (an Aerostich has saved my SOs skin many times) with different colors and reflectivity for all styles of riding, the selection I've seen is huge and varied. And, of course, helmets come in all kinds of colors and patterns that make them much much more noticed by motorists, there is no doubt about it.

It is both a safety and intelligence issue in my opinion - ie you can be the greatest most skilled driver or rider but if you are not visible to others your chances of being hit are simply higher. Anything that aids in making a motorcyclist stand out around cars and when approaching at intersections can make the key difference in that moment.

And first hand experience when driving leaves no question in my mind since I see bikes/peds/cars much more obviously, clearly, better in blind spots, and further away no matter what the lighting/weather when they are a bold color or patterned vs just being a dark shape even with headlights. You can make out a rider in high viz ridiculously far away, that and/or a bright helmet is really noticeable. It is same reason they make stop signs red and other warning signs a bright color, it simply catches the eye better in any condition.

So yes, as bzn by said, it is important to to be protected with good gear and safer by being visible, you can have both and look good but style shouldn't be paramount when your health is the real priority IMHO.

 

When I ride, I assume that I am completely invisible. I wear multi-colored leathers and other specific riding gear (ballistic nylon/kevlar etc), but I do not make any assumptions that anyone else on the road has actually seen me, ever.

Riding in California means that you are a hell of a long way down the list of things that drivers notice, at best you are somewhere above a homeless person, but probably below a mexican farm worker.

Which means that the morning's latte, the paper, the electric razor / eyebrow tweazers or lipgloss if the driver is a woman, all take higher priority.

I no longer class my riding as 'defensive', I took up the offensive position long ago, I carve my way through traffic, I out accelerate everything from the lights(having lane-split to the front of the queue), and often out-brake and out-corner things too, I treat cars like vermin, lane splitting is a way of life, as are such 'games' as 'spot the idiot, guess the lane, surprise indicators, late socca mom and inpatient truck driver'.

I look 6-7 cars ahead or more at surface street speeds and overtake cars in the blink of an eye, neither giving them a chance to get in my way nor expecting them to notice me. On the freeway I am looking so far ahead cars/truck just become colored dots in the distance.

Sound crazy and/or dangerous ?

You bet it is, however simply riding defensively is not enough out here, defensive implies that the cars are on the offensive and you are reacting to situations rather than reading them and dealing with them before you need to react.

Sound like I am selfish ?

Oh yes, I care about me, my skin and not crashing, in that order. I cannot allow myself to care for every other road user, nor their precious ego's as I hurtle past them while they are stuck in their mobile starbucks / beauty parlour, I really seriously do not care what they think. All I care about is making it to my destination in one piece as safely as possible.

Did I say safely ?

Yet I am advocating riding selfishly, lane splitting (legal in CA), out accelerating everyone ? Sure am, you see, riding with the traffic, assuming that drivers actually see you, even wearing neon pink leathers is simply stupid. Drivers struggle to see us in our Mini's, how are they going to see anything even smaller ?

Almost any motorcycle will outaccelerate all but the most expensive supercar, many have brakes that are equal to, if not better than, most cars on the road, and the ability that a motorcycle has to change direction and slip through gaps simply cannot be beaten in any car, including a Mini.

These are you advantages, that used well, will help to redress the balance when it comes to crash protection.

So far this 'method' has seen me thorugh 25 years of riding on the street in several countries, think about it

 

MaxN - Quite a bit of what you wrote is dead on the money. Sometimes aggressive riding is the way to go, but I think you go a bit far with some of it.

You advocate treating cars like vermin, and don't care what they think about it, and I guess you get home safe so no worries, right? On the other hand some of those car drivers probably don't like being treated like vermin and are just cretinous enough to take out their rage on the next biker they see, since you are long gone. That could perhaps explain the Cadillac driver that intentionally tried to force me into a bridge abutment, dispite the fact I had done absolutely nothing to warrant it. OK, I saw him coming and left him sucking air by aggressive riding, but I know I'm not the one that hacked him off.

I think defensive riding IS reading situtations and reacting to them before they develope. It's the whole point of defensive riding. Reacting after the fact is what usually gets people in trouble, either with too slow reflex actions, or more common, doing exactly the opposite of what should be done.

In any case, aggressive defensive riding is good, but aggressive offensive riding can be ... well... offensive.

 

Pendergast,

maybe I was a little harsh, maybe it was the clown in the Mazda 3, CA plate 5PPW(something) that tried to take me out of the car pool lane around the El Toro junction on the i5 north, or the Black Tahoe (CA 5TED....) with the driver chatting on his cell phone while drinking his coffee - presumably using his knees to steer ? at 85mph a couple of miles later that was occupying two lanes, or maybe the racer-boy in the civic with the F1 wing and the mahoosive exhaust that swept accross six lanes to join the 133 from the car pool lane all in about 200yds, or maybe......

I see them all, every single time I ride.

I see them, but I doubt that they ever even notice me, the guy that cut you up, I doubt he noticed you. However, I would say that there is no way you should have put yourself in that position. No matter what you ride, you have superior acceleration and 'flickability', use these attributes to stay out of the way, and do not assume that anyone has seen you , ever. If it was deliberate never, ever try to seek revenge, you will come off worse.

All of the above I saw coming, seriously, I was watching and noticed the Mazda do that little left-right-left-RIGHT as he moved out of the car pool lane accross the double-yellows. His momentary indecision - should he pull an illegal move ?

I was on the brakes and out of the way, then past him in moments, I doubt he noticed me, despite my bright leathers and helmet, not to mention the booming V-Twin I was riding.

The Tahoe I blasted as he drifted right - I went left, timed to perfection, another victim SUV taken by my Duc.

The Civic ? Well he had been hunting for a gap for about a mile, I watched from a safe distance.

Like I said, I doubt they even notice me, but I do treat them like vermin, I would rather they where way behind me than alongside me

 

I hear you Max. It is easy to get angry at some of the idiots piloting vehicles. While I started riding in 1972 (temporarily bikeless at the moment) I've also spent the last 35 years working in traffic lanes and dealing with what must be some of the worst drivers in the world.

Since I started riding when bikers were all "bad dudes" and cross country bike tourers were few and far between, I probably have a different perspective on image. I'm not a terribly scary looking guy. I used to ride with clean denims and unchopped bikes; yet I rarely walked into a cafe by myself without experiencing an immediate lull in the talking, and the fertive looks of locals who were obviosely sure the pillageing would soon commence. I was always super polite (heck, no matter how bad I was, the numbers weren't good), always tipped well and always noticed the tension quickly decrease. Still, it always bugged me that people were scared simply because I rode a bike, and I always felt good about spreading some "good" biker cheer.

Oh... the action of the Cadillac was absolutely deliberate. I could see it in his eyes as he came up behind me on my left, and yes - I didn't stick around to let him finish but I do regret not getting his plates, although there was no way I could prove anything. Oh well, stay alert!

 

Yeah, I think so. Here's mine:

 

MaxN & Pendergast
....
Pen, man do I hear you there. I am 5'5", 120 lbs and when I walk into a grocery aisle with my boots and leather jacket, people actually trip over themselves to get out of my way or will turn around and go down another aisle. Too funny.

MaxN, I understand perfectly what you are trying to communicate. I think that you may be misunderstood by most people simply because you described your riding style as "offensive." This word has two strong meanings which are both negative. (ie: "offensive odor" and offensive as in agressive or attacking. However, your skills are not at all offensive. They are in fact defensive. You analyze the traffic patterns well ahead of you and then you use space to create space. You anticipate the actions of the drivers around you and you circumvent them. You are employing advanced tactics of a racer. Note the word "advanced".

The only offensive or aggressive behaviours I see described by you are the words you used to describe how you ride. I applaud your driving skills and may they keep you alive a long time. I think they will. Your finely tuned skills interpret the road and traffic patterns simlarly to an expert playing video games. The only fault I can see is that when you suddenly appear out of nowhere because of your advanced handling skills, some little old lady in a ford focus may become startled to find you materialize virtually out of thin air beside her and jerk the wheel hard, knocking you into oblivion. Keep in mind that there are others on the road with you who have similar driving skills and a split second ago before you pulled your vanishing and reappearing act, they did not see you there.

 

Well done Mira. I was heading for the same place but I think I ran out of gas.

 

Sweet!

 

I love riding motorcycles, but not sports bikes. I am a proud owner of a 2001 custom harley-davidson softail ( looks nothing like a harley ) and there is nothing that will match the feeling of riding my motorcycle on the Highway. the longest trip I did was in 2003 for the Harley Davison 100th anniversary in Milwakee. I shipped the bike via airplane (it had to be close to me ) from Kuwait to Chicago and after the event I rode it all the way to Miami through rain, bugs, storms, hot sun and humidity and I was always smiling. I met alot of nice people on the way and was really happy for the help I got. I was actually on TV (a Kuwaiti License plate in Milwakee ) I spent the rest of the trip relaxing my back and partying at Miami beach with lots of old friends from school I will sell everything I have except my bike

 

Mira,

Thanks for that, sometimes I struggle to explain just how I stay alive out there without resorting to example and what sounds like rhetoric.

I am an ex-racer, started at the age of 8 riding dirt bikes, by the time I was in my teens I had 'progressed' to 2-stroke 125, then 250cc 2-stroke Yamaha RD's.

I was never *that* successfull, probably because I would never quite push 10/10ths, my survival instinct seemed to be a little stronger than some of those I raced against. I did win races and I finished many seasons in the top ten of my catagory, but I was never even a local champion.

My 'career' ended at the age of 19 when a taxi pulled out on me while I was riding a RD350LC on the street, I saw the taxi, I watched the gaps shrink and the options all close around me while braking to the edge of traction, realizing that the only move that I had was to hit the taxi. I had the peace of mind to let off the brake and allow the front of the bike to rise fractions of a second before I hit, and then also to pretty much let go of the bike in an attempt to go over the hood.

I spent a few months in hospital.

After getting out my riding changed, I took the offensive position there and then. I took motorcycle classes and began to teach too. Subsequently I have crashed, but each one has been my own fault - usually low-sides but I managed a frankly spectacular highside on my old GSXR 750 a few years ago at Button Willow.

I ride like a racer, but a racer that understands the pain involved in a 'decent' crash, and one that understands that he is invisible.....

Thanks for the complements / understanding - take care out there

oh FWIW - space == safety - if you have not got any space, make some. FAST.

 

Your welcome. Amazing how I pegged you as an experienced racer....

 

I own a 2007 ducati monster and just purchased a new mini.. the mini is fun but NOTHING compares to the rush of riding a motorcycle

 

sick!

 

No argument here that motorcycle riding is dangerous - that's a given. But... not many of us in this bunch let insurance actuaries tell us how to live (or die for that matter). If you're a gear-head you're gonna want a cool motorcycle sometime in your life.

Given our already proven weakness for retro machinery (especially of British heritage), I would suggest investigating the Royal Enfield (www.royalenfield.com/). They are now being made in India, but here's the cool part: they are made almost exactly like they were in the 1960's. There are some improvements (electronic ignition, disk brakes, metallurgy, etc.), but they are essentially identical to the ones that were made back in the days of Camelot!! And the best part is the price... ~ 5k brand new! They also have side cars available that look like 60's throw-backs too. This is such a "natural" for a motorcycle-lusting MINI owner that I can hardly beleive nobody else has mentioned it on this thread.

Oh yeah, always wear your helmet and leathers. State Farm thanks you...

 

Just ran across this thread. But I am in the MINI and motorcycle world. But... I am taking a different approach.

I go to my house in the mountains at least once a month. I drive the MINI up the roads to the house and have fun, but once there I shift gears (no pun intended). While my wife goes into town to shop (or whatever) I crank up my Honda enduro and explore the back roads, forest service roads, and others, which I could not do with my MINI.

I don't need another vehicle to go fast on curvy roads, I have that with the MINI. But where the MINI does not go this does. Different strokes for different folks.