yah, if i could only get one car, i would get a Odyesse with the full DVD and leather. $40k or something. should be a nice ride.

 

I like your view on this subject and agree completely. I know plenty of guys that own trucks and use them on a regular basis to haul or tow something. I have no problem with this because it is a better fiscal choice than to own two vehicles. On the other hand, I see a lot of the "brand new trailer hitch" SUV owners that bought it solely for it's size, image, and "because they can." I can not, and will not agree with that as the reason to do this. That is NOT what the men and women of our armed forces have been fighting and dying for all of these years. If you think that is what freedom is all about then there is something very wrong about your perspective on freedom and the ability to make logical choices!

Drew

 

As the Great One explained, some of us haul stuff. I seem to live at Home Depot ... its endless and there is no way 14 bags of dirt, mulch, lumber, etc is going in the MINI (the wife wont even let her precious Chows in the MINI never mind dirt).

However, you analogy doesn't wash anymore than saying any car capable of exceeding 120 MPH on the road should be charged a surcharge since such speeds are illegal. want a race car, buy a race car.

I'm simply pointing out that anyone can come up with a surcharge for virtually anything. Not going to happen in America.

 

The ability to CHOOSE ... Freedom ... is what America is about.

This is no different than say covenants in housing. Many people do not like the idea of a housing area restricting the color of your house. You want to paint in pink with yellow polka dots ... so be it.

The freedom to CHOOSE is what its all about and if they choose to get 5 MPH while going to get their hair done ... that is their CHOICE .... It might not be yours ...

 

I hope this isn't a flame, just a comment. I keep seeing variations of "if what you are doing isn't the absolute ultimate you can do, then why do it".

I understand why people might say, "I'll do whatever I want because I can", but the reason that says, "I am doing nothing wrong because someone else is doing something worse," always strikes me as illogical.

There was a recent NAM thread from someone who had "gutted" his catalytic converter. When critized he replied, "my car still puts out less pollution than a city bus".

That's true, but as justification for what he did, IMO, pretty weak.

 

I am going to apoligize for coming down so harsh on this concept (although getting called a "tool" is a bit irritating). Now that the alcohol has kicked in ...

You want to bash SUVs ... go for it. It's not going to change the buying public

Think that high gas prices will stop it ... guess again. Many who have the larger ones got lots of money to burn

I stand by the right to choose to buy whatever I please. I USE my little SUV every week. Its constantly got stuff in it that isn't going in the MINI (some by choice like the dogs) and some not.
America is about the freedoms to choose. Give up that right and you got a dictatorship or worse. Dont like a law (without getting political), write your congressman.

Everyone, including the originator, has the absolute right to their opinions.

Resmini got a good point. IF, I had nothing to haul, I would never have bought a SUV. If I lived in Utah, AZ, or someplace where there were lots of off-roading, I probably would. However, I would never own one just to take too work. Personally, I think a High-mileage car, something in the mid-high 30s mpg (and that leave a MCS OUT) would be ideal and, in fact, drove such cars for many years (while the wife had the sports car and drove short distances). So I agree with that ...

Before you BASH a SUV .... consider what is done with it. How do you know the hubby doens't take it hunting on the weekends .... or whatever?

 

Speaking for myself, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that most SUV's tooling around larger cities have never seen the countryside a day in their life. The only thing that gets carried is brood. So why not get a mini-van?

 

If you're asking if I consider your comment a flame, absolutley not. We are all entitled to our own opinions. And, in a public forum such as this, I can and do expect to hear some that are different than mine. If I am willing to post an opinion, I must be willing to read others and not be upset or angry about them.

 

Why is a mini-van any better? Mini-van's get mileage that's as bad if not worse than many SUV's. Mini-van's are pretty sizeable hunks of steel hurtling down the road that are typically driven just are recklessly as SUV's, and often times just as under utilized.

My other vehicle is a Pacifica. It's considered a cross-over, but still as large if not larger than a GMC Envoy/Chevy Trailblazer. Could we get by with a smaller vehicle... Potentially, but not as well, and our trip across country with the trailer, roof box and loaded backen would have been much more difficult with any other vehicle... Has the Pacifica ever been off-road, nope and probably never will...

But here's the thing, we like it, we could afford it at the time, we can continue to afford it, and it meets our needs. I deeply resent anybody who tries to take a holier than thou attitude and try and dictate to me that I should have a smaller car... It's about as disrespectful as me giving you crap for spending a few grand on mods that you decide to make to your car. You can afford it, you want it, who am I to even consider dictating to you what you can or can't purchase and install on your car?

And before anybody gets on me about the fact that we own a vehicle as large as a Pacifica, let me tell you about vehicle number 3... It's specifically dedicated for when one of us needs to run errands into town. It's the vehicle of choice even over the MINI when one of us has to hit the post office, market, bakery, etc... Vehicle number 3 is a Vespa Grantourismo, for when we need LESS space than even the MINI offers...

 

I am NOT going to defend my choice of vehicles to anyone. We own an SUV. Maybe I haul tons of stuff, and maybe I just like the cushy ride. It does not matter.

I can afford to own an SUV.

It is legal for me to own an SUV.

End of story.

Some of this whining about not "needing" an SUV or having an "impact" on society is complete crap. Where does it end? Should I not own a large house because, really, I could just live in a smaller house? Should I not have a nice watch because a Timex would keep just as good or better time? Clothes? Heck, as long as I am warm and my private parts are covered - why do I need nice outfits?

 

Yep, this pretty much sums up America, and if you disagree you're just a whiner.

 

Dont know about the whiner part but yes it does. Aren't you glad you live in a free country?

Free to make your own choices? Free to make your own decisions and not have them made for you?

 

I am SO tempted to request this thread be merged with the older one from seven months ago, because most of the same arguments are being brought up... except for the public safety ones, it seems.

I am not going to join in this one though, because it will get repetitive.

I WILL politely ask each of you who is so heavily involved in this thread to read the old one (if you haven't already), if only to discourage endless repetition.

 

I, as well as many others on here, have been saying that the whole time. I don't think anyone on here has said that if you have a viable use for your large SUV that you still shouldn't own it. We all agree that some people need them, but we ALL KNOW that MOST new buyers DON'T! There is no arguing that fact, plain and simple, it is the truth as much as the sky is blue.

My problem with SUVs is more or less what I stated earlier. The "we are Americans who are rich and free so we will do whatever" concept is flawed in so many ways! Look, just because someone has the money and enjoys something doesn't make it right, that is the whole argument here. If a rich man snorts cocaine because "he can" is that justified? How about if someone buys 500 acres of beautiful land and clear cuts it, just because he didn't like trees?
It is views like "I'll do what I want" that got us here in the first place. It is not just about flaunting your money and showing off, it is the fact that it is something that is harming our economy and our environment. SUVs burn more fuel, meaning we are more dependant on foreign goods. How is that good for our economy? When burning the large amounts of fuel, they are also polluting the environment, adding CO2 and fueling Global Warming. How is this a good thing?

You can't blame GM's problems right now on anything other than the quality of their vehicles and the way they have run their business. The $ is weaker than the Euro and Sterling, and has been for years, so don't say that European countries or other countries are lesser than us, they are not.

I know that I have plenty of strong arguments to hold up my perspective on this issue, and will continue stating them because I do have freedom of speech and opinion. Hopefully someone will listen, and understand what I am saying, and in turn they will accept what I am saying instead of just brushing it off. If they do, I feel like they will agree.

By the way, the amount of fuel, toxins, and trees that goes into a few thousand business cards is minimal when compared to what the mission is trying to resolve, so I wouldn't bother using that as your defense.

Drew

 

I dont agree with that first statement. You dont know what you don't know. Your making an assumption. Where is the data to back that up?

As to the second part, no one ever said anything about breaking a law. You do dope, go directly to jail.

As to clear cutting. Didn't Mr T or someone like that do that?

My point its your decision ... no one elses. You want to pass a law to ban clear cutting on private land ... write your congressman.

Until that time comes, if you own the land, don't tell the owner what to do on his land. Maybe he is selling firewood!

Yes, something are bad for the environment ... no argument there and I am NOT arguing against that ... rather, I am defending Americans freedom to choose.

Edge, your right about the old thread. The problem is that threads always get repeated and when the same question came up before about why bring up the same arguements, that argument did not prevail.

See https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=51001 (although it wasn't an OT topic).

 

But that's exactly why people like the thread starter need to reconsider their thoughts. Why stereotype ALL SUV users? Why target ALL SUV users, especially when you don't know 99.999999% of SUV users from Adam, and don't know how they use their SUV's?

Just because my family doesn't take my SUV off road does that me we shouldn't own an SUV? Even if we did frequently use our SUV to haul our boat, camping supplies, landscaping trailer, chain gang etc... during the week, does that mean we deserve the ire an SUV hater on the weekendbecause we took our SUV to the mall and they happen to spot the three of us climbing out of the car with nothing else in the car? Especially since that SUV hater doesn't know us or how we use our SUV?

People who want to target SUV owners with their opinions about owning an SUV need to step back and realize that for the most part they don't know anything about the person they are targeting.

Yes, many SUV's are nothing more than oversized, overpowered, people haulers, but not all of them are.

It's the blatant stereotyping that goes on in threads like this that annoys lots of the pro-SUV people on NAM...

But again, for all those who question my decision to own an SUV... How about you all who mod their MINIs? All you guys who spend a few grand on new wheels, JCW packages, exhausts, headers, ECU reprogramming, etc... on a car that will never touch a track? Is it right for me to comment on the wisdom of your choices? Is it not rude for me try and impose my will on what you spend your money on for your car and your life?

 

Wait a sec ... Now you crossed the line

How am I gonna get to work without that extra 40 HP???

 

I do understand the desire to drive what you want. And if someone wants an SUV because it's the fashion (don't argue, it is), fine. Their rights end at the fender of my car. I don't argue against SUV's because they're environmentally unsound, but because I have almost been killed on the highway more than once by those bloody things, and drivers who have no depth or spatial perception driving something bigger than they are capable of safely controlling.

I almost think SUV's should have a special license class like big rigs or motorcycles.

 

Yes, I'm using my freedom to express an opinion that bascially says, "just because you can do something doesn't mean you should". I don't consider it whining.

Are we saying that nothing should be done to help reduce, for example, the USA's dependence on foreign oil...or, are we saying something should be done, just by someone else?

 

Oh boy ... different topic. Edge is right about this one. There are several thread on the dependence of foreign oil. Rather than drag all that back up, I will just agree ... yes, we should do something about. Trying hard not to get into the politics, the US has always made a policy of protecting their interest they consider of vital interest (such as oil).

For reference, there was a recent Discovery Channel (or History Channel) show on our relationship with the Saudis which basically goes like, since WWII, we protect them ... they give us oil. Done deal. Even during the "embargo" when the Saudi's cut it off ... Kissinger told the King to turn it on or we can't protect you and the oil flowed.

If you go back to the other threads, and Dr. O can pipe in on this, there is more shale oil and oil in North American reserves than you can imagine (and another big field in the trillions controlled by Venezuela). The cost to get shale oil out was to expensive when gas was 73 cents. Not at $3.

The conversations will say just use less gas. The other side said exploit the untapped reserves. Long discussion but fundamentally ... yes, we should NOT be dependent upon foreign oil. HOW not to be dependent is a totally different subject.

 

Leaving cards on windshields.....bad idea, in my opinion...I don't care what the cause. The "SUV backlash"...it fizzled apparently. Maybe some day.

 

You're right, it's related, but different. Can't help but notice from this thread how doing whatever you want to do overrides any other consideration, and don't dare let anyone suggest otherwise.


Sometimes I get a hopeless feeling about the future.

 

Slight correction, at least as it relates to my opinion - doing anything that is LEGAL.

Guns, alcohol, McDonalds fast food, SUVs - there have been people complain about all of them at one point or another during the course of history. But so long as you play by the laws of society, it's legal. As someone stated previously - don't like it? Write your congressman, make an argument to get it changed, and if enough voters agree with you, there will be a new law prohibiting said activities.

And only because it keeps coming up will I reiterate - poor driving is not exclusive to SUVs. I am sure there are even MINI owners out there who drink coffee, talk on the phone, fiddle with their nav systems, and do all sorts of other things that affect their driving performance. I am ALL for tougher licensing of drivers, but that's another topic for another day.

 

So I read every post carefully and more were at least based in some fact. However, lets get a few things straight. You don't have to be an American to drive an SUV. The reasons SUVs are less popular in other countries is because they don't sell as well. It is up to those people to deside for themselves. Believe it or not many major countries (those that have people that can afford cars) actaully believe in freedom and whatnot too. Driving an SUV has nothing to do with being American.
Also, someone said something close to 'why would you drive a 5000 pound SUV to haul just one person?' Well, why would someone buy a sporty car when they're not on the track? As you can tell that arguement is terrible. As is the one quoted. The SUV wasn't bought to haul stuff or many people. Maybe it was bought for comfort, the look, they like having large cars, etc.
Also the main reason that America consumes more oil than other countries it how we live. Its mostly because we drive 10 miles to our kids school, then 20 to work, 20 to pick out kids, up, 15 to soccer pratice, etc etc. My mom owns an SUV but I promise she uses less gass than you. She walks to work. Maybe she is the one that should be angry with all of those that drive TANKS such as a MINI Cooper instead of just living within a reasonable distance to work.

 

My comment certainly wasn't meant for only you. As far as more laws, hard to see how that will do any good, when the one's on the books for the most part aren't enforced. If there was no law to give a turn signal, I'd still do it, if there were no anti-littering laws, I still wouldn't litter. Now, of course, that's just me. I guess I should apologize for seeing a problem with the attitude that no problem should be addressed unless there is a law that says it should be.