Well, alrighty then. It doesn't matter which of our 3 vehicles (MINI, xB, yellow EVO) we never fail to get lots of comments on the car whether good or bad

 

It sounds like preemptive defensiveness to me. If anything, they're referring to kaelaria, and I frankly agree with him - this spike in gas prices will go a long way toward getting people who don't need SUVs and trucks out of SUVs and trucks. And if it burns them financially in the meantime, hell yes I'm warming my hands at the fire and feeling superior for driving an efficient vehicle. I do feel for the people who drive inefficient vehicles out of necessity, but this fuel crisis is very beneficial in restoring some perspective to the millions who drive such vehicles by choice. Nothing good ever comes about without sacrifice for someone.

 

Well I'm glad we can pick whatever we want to drive, we don't have to fill out a "needs" survey and let some agency pick what we are allowed to drive. MINI has enjoyed just as many "status" owners as HUMMER. Trends change. Big SUVs have had their run of popularity, what's it been....10 years maybe...or 8 that SUVs have been so popular? Now trends are changing. That's a free market...it will take care of itself. Imagine life with only what you need, no wants. Or worse, imagine life with only what a third party decides are your needs. There would be no Cooper S because nobody NEEDS that supercharger, we could get to work efficiently with a regular Cooper. That's my gripe with this type of thread...some people seem to be saying there should be no SUVs, we have no right to buy them, if there is no pressing "need" for it it shouldn't be purchased. We can buy whatever we want, thank God.

 

I think that there has been a steady promotion over the years that the SUV is a sporty, versatile, and safe vehicle.

I bought my Isuzu Trooper in 1988. I remember perfect strangers coming up to me and asking me about her because the SUV was a pretty unusual vehicle at that time. The interest in my Trooper at that time was not all that different from how people have responded to our MINIs since 2002. I will say that our Troopie is a 4-cylinder engine and gets 16 city/21 hwy. Not great, but not that bad, and it runs very clean.

What I think is a shame is that gradually, people replaced their cars, wagons, and sedans with SUVs. I am an artist and often need to haul large artworks around, so the Trooper is a practical vehicle for me. But I admit that I have only rarely used the 4-wheel drive function. I also figured that here in SoCal we all felt a need for the 4-wheelers after the '94 quake...a vehicle that would drive over broken, cracked ground.

What has stunned me is the offer for sale of ever-larger SUVs....with ever-lower gas mileage. They've always seemed overdone to me. But that's just me. I'll be interested in seeing how the used-SUV sales go, as well as the new SUV sales!


Clover

 

No, actually no one is saying that. Look again: no one is saying that. That's my gripe with this type of thread - it turns into a bunch of unfounded kneejerk BS, with people pulling straw men out of the air to make their point. Why respond to the thread if you're not actually going to listen to what people are saying?

 

If I had a dollar for every time I've heard an SUV driver brag about how they could "drive over" other cars... it's been a longstanding and very sickening mentality for the vast majority (note I said MAJORITY not all) of SUV owners. The whole "I've got to drive a bigger and badder vehicle than the next guy" thing is old, tired and TERRIBLY wrong. Not only has it been an incredible waste of gas, helped along by very old and out of place laws permitting low gas mileage (since they were rated as "trucks" - the differing CAFE law was designed for rural farmers), but the safety aspect cannot be ignored either. Bottom line, SUVs (and pick-ups too, although less so due to slightly less weight) are dangerous to all other types of vehicles on the road.

Those of you who complain about the attitudes towards SUVs here... they had it coming, plain and simple. It's a 95%/5% issue. Roughly 5% (my guesstimation, not anyone else's) of SUV and pick-up owners can truly justify driving that type of vehicle... in other words, they actually travel off-road with some frequency, or they haul around (or tow) items that other vehicles simply can't handle.

BUT... the 95% of SUV owners are the real "posers". Increasing risk to all other drivers on the road, and wasting ridiculous amounts of gas, just for the "look". Never mind that the vehicles drive like dogs (awful acceleration, awful braking, awful handling), they want to be "cool", and have their own perceived notion that the vehicle is safer, and "damn everyone else!". Those 95% of SUV & pick-up drivers could ALL get the same tasks done in a FAR more efficient manner in another vehicle, such as a minivan. Oh, but God forbid they be seen driving a vehicle as "uncool" as a minivan, huh! And YES there are 4WD/AWD minivans out there, just as there are for cars. The "snow vehicle" argument just doesn't hold water, especially if you also use snow tires (on ANY vehicle).

I'm sorry, the ignorant and blatantly wasteful SUV & pick-up owners of America had it coming. The "death of the SUV" is nigh, and it's long overdue. I can forsee a reduction in auto deaths as a result of this too.

Good riddance!

(yes, I know we'll always see SOME... but I'm hoping it quickly gets reduced to the 5% that makes sense)

I've never been more proud to have my license plate - even though I got it because I thought it was funny, it's taking on even more meaning now. No, the MINI is not the most efficient car on the road, but compared to SUVs (especially ridiculously big ones), they make Osama Bin Laden look like Ghandi!

 

This is a quote from an article in today's St. Petersburg Times, about gas stations running out of fuel today - it sums up my beef with these idiot SUV/Truck drivers:

"Outside, Rick Schmidt of St. Petersburg had finally found a place to fill up his huge 2004 Ford F-250 pickup truck.
"I've been by three stations already, and they're empty," he said.

It costs $75 to fill up, but Schmidt has no plans to downsize. Even if his truck only gets 9.5 miles per gallon.

"I love my truck," he laughed."

 

Yeah, right. How about 10mpg in a Mini? Happens to me everytime I visit the track.

What a bunch of self-righteous ******** from some of you. What right do you have to judge people for what they drive? Do you really think the drivers of SUVs are to blame for the high oil prices? If so, you're just an ignorant jackass.

I'll bet the most vocal, self-righteous of you are not even old enough to remember the oil shortages in the 1970s, and don't know that even at more than $3 per gallon, gasoline is STILL less expensive now than back then.

With the money you're saving driving your morally superior Mini Cooper, send those savings to the victims of Katrina, and then shut the hell up.

 

Well said and worth repeating...

 

I recommend those who are scandalized over our anti-SUV rhetoric chill out a bit. We do this here from time to time...it's mostly tongue-in-cheek, not as dark and ominous as it seems. We don't hate SUV owners (no matter how flawed and senseless their choice of vehicle may be:smile nor would we seriously deny someone the right to meet a legitimate vehicular need. I real life, I see moms in their SUVs waiting for fuel at the gas station and I really feel bad for them.

Besides, if we were to really take this logic to heart we'd be blasting those silly MCS owners who had to have their little go-fast speed wagons with little regard for fuel economy. Coopers are the MINI of choice, getting mid-30s mpg...just as good as the real-life city mpg of a Prius and better than the hybrid Civic!!! Clearly MCS owners are testosterone-poisoned and compensating for "something."

See...it's all silly. Something of an inside joke.:smile:

 

you can say that for all sports car owners, they had to have the top of the line 911 GT2 when a 911 would've suffice... again, why have an RSX type S when a RSX gets better mileage?

even if its not sports cars, why does E55 owners have to get the E55? wouldnt a niec E320 diesel be a nice enough vehicle? why manufacturers offer different engine tunes?

its all retorical, according to your logic, why dont we all just bike, no more wasting fuel!

bottom line is, everyone's to blame for the lack of fuel and rise of fuel pricing... we are the ones who want our cars safer, we are the ones loading it up with tons of useless technologies, we are the ones that demand the 500 hp V8s instead of a nice 100 hp 4 banger (why have a sunroof on your cooper when it's so heavy!) we are the ones buying these vehicles! and in the end, to be totally righteous about it, everyone who even drives a vehicle is to blame! when they drive, they use fuel! why not have everyone bike and all bunch up in the downtown core so no one has to travel far and there's no more of this argument? we should really take a page out of the europeans and japanese... where majority of cars there are low hp in-town runabouts that gets GREAT mileage whether it is on the autobahn or in the city

leave the fuel to the trucks who really really need them! if you drive alone to work, when you know 5 people living near you goes to the same place, why not car pool? lots of people know they got co-workers nearby, but they don't do it now do they?

ill say it again, we are the ones responsible for the fuel crisis, the lack of fuel, the collapse of the enviroment, etc etc... but are we willing to help? not when we are so drunk on our love for fast cars, so why not do our part MINI owners? take the bus instead of your car, ride the bike to the store instead of driving there, leave the car at home and just enjoy what mother nature has out for us?

granted, MINI owners are just a very small part of the bigger problem

now, i can already see alot of people say that 'why not tell the SUV drivers, why bother us' etc etc? but if we all just blame each other, nothing would ever get solved, somebody has to take initiative, otherwise, we are simply killing ourselves slowly :smile:

let's just help the things that has kept us going all these years for us humans... let's do our part, even if it is miniscule, at least it's a worthy start... if we can extend our lives one extra day, if we can build a cleaner future for our children, wouldn't that be a future worth fighting for? wouldn't it be a future worth giving up a few things for?

 

Well I just hope people get the idea that they don't need these gas eating monsters. I'm 20 so I wasn't around in the 70's gas crisis but my parents were. They owned a Datson and Honda (and somewhere in there, a Fiat X 1/9 :impatient :impatient :impatient ). My mom's Honda got 40 mpg! I don't want to see a gas shortage but this is a wakeup call just like the 70's. Remember, in another few decades, we aren't going to have any more gas. I understand the fun in motorsports and taking your MINI for a track day is a lot different than getting the same mileage every day in an SUV.

Right now, my dad and mom both drive 40 miles a day. Dad's got the MCS and mom has the Insight. I keep our Chrysler van (only 24 mpg) at college since I drive maybe a couple times a week. We just filled up the Insight (almost empty) and MINI (1/4 tank left) for about $50. That's crazy but I really feel sorry for the SUV drivers that pay that to fill up 2/3 of a tank.

 

Well said! Back to the original spirit of this thread... I hope....

The same thing happened back in the last gas crisis (late '70'S/ Early 80"s? how soon we-- er, I! --forget!)

At that time oversized American-made sedans and station wagons were the "tar babies". My family had a Ford Grand Torino station wagon that they had needed at one time (four kids!) but no more. Took quite a hit when they sold it. I kind of suspect that cars generally did not hold their value as well then as now, so the resale value expectations were not quite as high.

Of course the other thing that happened is that the compact car that people had previously laughed at gained new popularity. Problem is our collective memory is also far too short!

 

Sometimes I'm not sure what compass the masses use to make automotive (and probably other) decisions. How much do we really choose...and how much are we sold. I would submit that we may have been sold on the SUV concept by automakers and probably a few other interests.

 

Earlier this year the wife and I were looking for a vehicle to replace our aging Volvo 240 station wagon (20-23 mpg) as family car for our two young children plus a St Bernard, and a trip vehicle. We considered minivans (Odyssey and Sienna), but I really don't care for minivans, we also considered a medium sized SUV like an Explorer, but the only reason to get an Explorer would have been for its towing capacity, and we don't tow much (yet). We ended up getting a Ford Freestyle (not the AWD version) on a 2 year lease, and have been happy with it so far. It has more room than our Volvo did, and gets better gas mileage, mid to high 20's if we take it easy.

The only reason I could ever personally justify an SUV would be for towing a race car, and it will be at least a couple of years before I'll be needing to do that. If/when I do get an SUV for towing and as a family car, it will only see minimal use, it won't be a daily driver, and it won't have 4WD, as I don't go off-roading, our snow isn't bad enough to warrant it, and it just adds weight and saps gas mileage.

My wife and I work opposite shifts, so we will both be driving the '05 MC to work every day, and our commutes are such that we should be able to get mid-30's on a consistent basis. I do see the need for SUV's for some people (my bro-in-law is a contractor for instance), but I can see a time coming when driving a small fuel-efficient car will be something of a status symbol, and an SUV just a symbol of wretched excess for many people. I live in farm country though, so we will always have large trucks around, although many of them are diesel, for slightly better mpg.

-Keith

 

I have never seen so many Hummers as I do here in the Okla City area. I can't tell how many people are in the vehicle because most of em have the limo tint on the windows.

But I said it before and I'll say it again. Most of the people who I have spoke with that own the big SUV's just really don't give a rip about how many miles per gallon their house on wheels gets.

Most of these suv owners tend to make good money and I think while a minivan could haul most of what they haul, they for the most part just like the bigger is better styled vehicle.

I get a kick out of seeing many of the SUV's with the chrome headlight, taillight and front bumper protectors. Are these rigs going off into the wild african bush country? I think probably not.

But hey, not only do they like the biggest and most expensive rigs on the road, the rig really needs to have as much after market chrome add on's as possible to give it that look

 

Dude ...

For one thing, your talking a 9 year old car with 137K on it. Who wants that? KBB shows only $5700 for a private sale. They are asking way to much.

Second, try reading this article http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/n...n29hybrid.html
(and I bet I can find lots more)

Particulary ...

"most experts believe that Americans' love affair with SUVs won't die easily, not without even higher gas prices"
"The small-car segments have been suffering, and that is because the typical buyer is a low-income person who is affected by gas prices," Akre said.

....

"The higher-priced vehicles tend to be less sensitive to fuel prices," Akre said."


Yes, soccer moms in Expeditions that never go off-road make no sense but its their money and they probably could care less about all those itty bitty little cars.


In other words, they have their opinions, you have yours. I'm sure there is a SUV BBS somewhere with threads hating those little cars ...


I really dont understand this hatred ... they are just a different kind of car for different needs ...

 

This is the part that I think the SUV haters just don't get. Or maybe they choose to ignore.

everyone has different needs.

I have a "small SUV", barely bigger length wise than the MINI. The other day, we had to take and get our two dogs (90 pound Chows) to the kennel (and at times vet). We're taking them in a MINI? Guess again.

My wife went to home depot today, came home with about 900 pounds of dirt, grass seed, mulch, etc. You think 900 pounds of dirt are going in her MINI?
HAHA ... not in this lifetime.

As to 4 wheel drive, yep, use it in the snow, when it snows. Yeah, i heard it all ... the MINI is so wonderful in the snow. But I guarantee that the heavier 4 WD will get through better with a higher ground clearance.

Oh, and here is the best of the retorts:

"Hire a truck" or "Have it delivered" or "get a friend with a truck to help you"

After a certain age, those are BS answers.

 

I can probably answer that as I know someone with one of those giant Fords. Yes ... they do feel safer. Whether they are or are not is moot. Their Perception is their reality ... which comes down to this.

its their money, their gas bill ... and no one elses.

I would bet that probably, they dont really care what the price of gas is because it doesn't even register ...

You like a little car ... they like a big car ... thats the American way ... As someone once said:

"If god wanted man to walk, he wouldn't have created dinosours to make all that good oil to burn"

H. Ford (or someone like that)
Just kidding there ...

To each their own. Peace

 

This thread kind of irks me for a couple of reasons. I am a soccer mom (gah, I hate that expression!) and I drive an SUV. We replaced our old '93 Safari van 3 years ago with a Yukon XL (best fuel economy in its class, as GM says proudly in its current advertising ) and I agonized over that decision. We're a large, blended family, and we needed to seat up to 8 people for several weeks of the year. When you have to haul around 8 people your vehicle choices are severely limited. Our SUV has plenty of room for all the kids, grandma, and all of our stuff if we need to go somewhere. The difference in fuel economy between it and a "big enough" van was negligible.

That being said, our only other vehicle is a Harley Sportster 883, which my husband uses for his short commute to work. Of course kids inevitably grow up, and now we are down to 5 of us for most of the year. Most of the trips I make are just me and the 3 kids so I finally can get a small car, and the car I chose was an MSCa.

It's kind of unfair to rag on SUV drivers. I live in the land of Microsoft millionaires and often see people driving their Ferraris and Lambourghinis to work, along with Roll Royces, Bentleys, and big ole 7 series Beemers. You think those behemoths get better fuel economy than my Yukon?

 

"Their money and their gas bill"


True, but....

Many young people are dying needlessly everyday in Iraq, so we can support and sustain our devouring appetite for fossil fuels. SUVs, save very specific cases and situations, have no well founded reason to continue to exist and the manufacturers are well aware that the death of the SUV has already begun and the fat profits these vehicles once left on the bank and shareholder's accounts are simply no more.

No one needs a Hummer, or an Excursion or a Suburban, Before the 1990's and even the 1980's most Americans did just fine tooling around in full size sedans and station wagons.

The Detroit/Japan (Yes Toyota and Nissan are equally guilty on the proliferation of the SUV fad) marketing machine created the "need" for the SUV to the American public and now that $4 per gallon gas is looming in the horizon, Detroit has nothing but themselves to blame for their situation and once again caught off guard without fuel efficient vehicles for the masses.

SUV owners (We have a family member who owns 2 Hummers, an H2 and H3) make all kinds of excuses and justifications to justify their poor choices, because after all, we are humans and we do not like to admit that we made a huge mistake with our hard earned money.

This family member with the Hummers, only has one child and it is basically 1-3 people riding the behemoths day in and day out and NEVER I repeat, NEVER go offroading, unless, they attend a Hummer sponsor "Meet" were they can briefly use their 4WD abilities in a simulated setting in a parking lot.

Whether people like it or not, the SUV is first and foremost a FAD vehicle, a social trophy and a fashion statement.

Too bad Detroit and the American public never really learned anything from the 1973 energy crisis. How many times do we have to tremple over the same rock to learn to conserve energy???

Americans need to wake up to the fact that the arrogant "American way" is getting us in trouble and recent events in the land of the free are a wake up call for all of us to come to our senses and act like responsible citizens, not only of this great country but the world.

 

You have to admit that a GMC Yukon SUV is way cooler looking than a GMC Savanna full size passenger van. While I agree that your familiy situation forces you to drive a big vehicle, I still contend you could have done just as well on a Chevy/GMC Express/Savanna full size conversion van, for mucho less $$$ than the Yukon, with better stability and perhaps better fuel economy. GM's full size vans are HUGE inside. They are the equivalent of a school bus. You can even get them with Vortec V6 engines

Face it, people buy SUVs because you look better behind the wheel of a Yukon than an Express van. Most people would never allow themselves to be caught dead on a full size van, a vehicle that is virtually dead except in the commercial market.

In your situation either full size GM vans, Ford's Econoline or the Daimler-Chrysler's (Freightliner) Mercedes Benz full size transporters would have cut the bill.

 

The only way Americans are goin to dump their SUVs is when they get hit where it hurts the most: The wallet.


Right now to fill up an SUV with a 28 gallon tank (Assuming $3 per gallon gas) is around $84 per week. That's $336 per month, practically, another car payment or a second mortgage loan!

At $4 per gallon, filling up the same behemoth will be $112 per week which is roughly $448 fuel bill per month!

Unless you are the "Don" Trump and own real estate in Manhattan, I don't think the rest of us mere mortals will be able to confront that kind of fuel expenses. The SUV is becoming harder and harder to justify by the day for the average American driver.

Right now, it costs $35.40 to fill up the tank of our MINIs with 93 octane fuel. The fill up lasts us about 2 weeks, so for 2 cars we end up spending a month around $142 for fuel expenses and this is for 2 cars :smile: that are daily drivers.

 

At the time we did consider those, and the fuel economy was actually worse than the Yukon XL. Plus the handling is horrid, and the comfort and convenience - no comparison. I guess we could have bought a butt ugly vehicle with worse fuel economy just so we wouldn't look like snotty, status conscious suburbanites, but appearances aren't that important to us - we did drive a used '93 Safari van for 8 years, after all.

I don't disagree with what you've said about the dangers of US dependence on fossil fuels. It's an awful situation and if there had been a better solution we would have jumped on it. I would love to live close to public transportation, stores, and all the conveniences so that we'd rarely have to drive at all, but where, where do I find this utopia in America? Where can I find a dense, downtown, child friendly neighborhood that I could afford to live in with more than one child?

 

That is Exactly the point of the owners of the larger SUVs. They dont see the price ... they dont care.

I asked someone when they were going to get rid of their expedition. the answer was never. They dont care about the price of gas because they can afford to have 3 SUVs and a full size Van and not give a crap about prices....

That is their attitude. Smug maybe. More Affluent, Yes.

But life aint fair. (otherwise I'd have a Ferrari)