Navigation & Audio Bring your GPS and favorite CD or MP3. This is where navigation and audio options for the Cooper (R50), Cabrio (R52), and Cooper S (R53) MINIs are discussed.

Navigation & Audio How to: Upgrade sound system

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Mar 27, 2011 | 07:41 PM
  #101  
carlmuck's Avatar
carlmuck
1st Gear
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
From: Columbia, MD
Well, I found the problem. The "Power IC" setting in the Audio section was set to "off". I'm not sure why a "reset" as called for in the manual didn't re-set this item. Well its now working. Though I did something to the antenna, broadcast stations are not coming in, they did before (the tuner successfully found stations) but now FM is all static. But that's another day's problems...
 
Reply
Old Mar 29, 2011 | 05:48 AM
  #102  
PA-MCS's Avatar
PA-MCS
3rd Gear
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
From: abbottstown, pa
Originally Posted by ellcapitan
I seem to have a nasty habit of answering my own questions, not long after I ask them here, LOL.

I just spoke with a Crutchfield tech advisor, reguarding my questions above, and I learned the following:

The red "Ignition" wire, in fact, can and should be connected to the factory purple/blue "Accessory" wire (PIN-16). What I was basically told was that, because this pigtail connector is used for more than one model vehicle, the red wire is not included within the connector because most of those other vehicles cannot use it. ...But ours' can.

The orange "Illumination" wire also should be connected to the factory grey/red "Illumination" wire (PIN-14). The tech advisor seemed to be kind of surprised that an orange wire was NOT included in the pigtail. Looks like I'll be using a "vampire clip" to tap into the factory wire for that one!

But here was the big surprise for me...it was kind of an "...Oh, by the way"-question: The aftermarket HU's (Alpine, in my case) blue/white "REMO" (Amp Turn-On) wire DOES NOT connect to the factory white "Power Antenna" wire (PIN-13). This wire must be run directly from the HU to the amp/s, or whatever you're using it to turn on. Instead, the HU's blue "P. Antenna" wire should be connected to the factory white (PIN-13) wire (via the blue wire in the pigtail). The question immediately becomes, why is this important...these cars don't even have power antennas? The answer is that they DO have antenna booster modules. The factory "Power Antenna" wire powers this module. If the Amp Turn-On lead is connected to the booster module, it will be "hot" all the time, whenever the HU is switched on. This may cause noise, or interference, when modes other than AM or FM radio is used. (Could this be why so many people experience noise issues with aftermarket installations? ) And of course, if neither the blue OR the blue/white leads are connected to the booster module, the module will never get power, the symptom being bad radio reception.

I'm posting all this here because, based on all my searching, I don't think ANYBODY else here actually knew this! (No need to thank me.)
picture 1. is how ellcapitan explained to wire the ignition and illumination wires. Since I'm not using the HU as a power source I went and relocated the 2 wires on the plug. (no splicing into the factory harness)

picture 2. is my stock pile of audio supplies waiting to get installed

picture 3. a close up of my kenwood KDC-BT948HD. I had the kenwood excelon KDC-x994, but I returned it when I found out the BT948HD was coming out. I bought it mainly for the looks, I dont like the way most HU's look too glossy(almost cheap). I wanted to have a matte finish to go with my mini's interior and not stick out. The screen and the control **** is the only thing that is glossy, the rest has a matte finish. only negative is I went from a 5-band EQ to a 3-band....which shouldnt make that much difference
 
Attached Thumbnails How to: Upgrade sound system-stereo-009-1024x768-.jpg   How to: Upgrade sound system-stereo-001-1024x768-.jpg   How to: Upgrade sound system-stereo-004-1024x768-.jpg  
Reply
Old Mar 29, 2011 | 06:38 AM
  #103  
PA-MCS's Avatar
PA-MCS
3rd Gear
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
From: abbottstown, pa
update with wiring harness labeled
 
Attached Thumbnails How to: Upgrade sound system-upgrade.jpg  
Reply
Old Mar 30, 2011 | 04:36 PM
  #104  
Scavenger's Avatar
Scavenger
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,692
Likes: 1
Which harness is that actually? Crutchfield provided me with the Metra 70-9003. This harness is missing the illumination and ignition (hot) leads, hence, it comes with a separate red wire with the fuse tap. I looked at the Scosche VW03B and it appears to have more wires/pins in it.

Like I replied earlier, I discovered this thread about a month after doing my install the "Crutchfield" way, so, I wish I'd had the pinout information that ellcapitan has provided!! I really don't like the fuse tap. If I can determine that the Scosche has all the wires, I might even considering switching it, though, that's a pain in the butt.

UPDATE: I just discovered that Metra has instructions for their harness on their website. These include an exception for MINI which shows how to connect the long red wire into pin #16. It does seem that this is a newer revision of the one I received from Crutchfield. It is still missing the illumination lead though, but it's still an improvement.
 

Last edited by Scavenger; Mar 30, 2011 at 05:06 PM. Reason: new info about Metra 70-9003
Reply
Old Mar 30, 2011 | 05:13 PM
  #105  
PA-MCS's Avatar
PA-MCS
3rd Gear
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
From: abbottstown, pa
Originally Posted by Scavenger
Which harness is that actually? Crutchfield provided me with the Metra 70-9003. This harness is missing the illumination and ignition (hot) leads, hence, it comes with a separate red wire with the fuse tap. I looked at the Scosche VW03B and it appears to have more wires/pins in it.

Like I replied earlier, I discovered this thread about a month after doing my install the "Crutchfield" way, so, I wish I'd had the pinout information that elcapitan has provided!! I really don't like the fuse tap. If I can determine that the Scosche has all the wires, I might even considering switching it, though, that's a pain in the butt.

This is the metra 70-9003 harness, I just simply moved the green speaker wires to the Ignition and illumination's respected spots.I didnt like the idea of running a seperate wire to the fuse panel either!!! This is the first time I've ever seeen this....the factory HU has to get its power from somewhere!! If you are running an amplifier this is possible but not if you are running the HU as a power source. Not unless you go to a local stereo shop and ask if they could help.
 
Reply
Old Mar 30, 2011 | 05:17 PM
  #106  
Scavenger's Avatar
Scavenger
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,692
Likes: 1
PA-MCS, I'd like to see a picture of your install, I also like the fact that part of the face is matte finish. I'm happy with my 994 though, and it's a bit late to exchange
 
Reply
Old Mar 30, 2011 | 05:53 PM
  #107  
PA-MCS's Avatar
PA-MCS
3rd Gear
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
From: abbottstown, pa
Originally Posted by Scavenger
PA-MCS, I'd like to see a picture of your install, I also like the fact that part of the face is matte finish. I'm happy with my 994 though, and it's a bit late to exchange
I didnt start anything yet. I just started to wire up the HU until I ran into the problem with the metra axxess ASWC. Today I ordered my pac swi-jack steering wheel interface and I'm also waiting for warmer weather. It's freaking snowing now!!!

I'll do a complete write up when I do my install
 
Reply
Old Apr 11, 2011 | 09:48 AM
  #108  
Scavenger's Avatar
Scavenger
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,692
Likes: 1
Any updates? Everything working great now? I'm considering re-wiring based on this thread. I may have to get another harness.
 
Reply
Old May 10, 2011 | 05:33 AM
  #109  
PA-MCS's Avatar
PA-MCS
3rd Gear
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
From: abbottstown, pa
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...6_800x600_.jpg
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...8_800x600_.jpg
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...4_800x600_.jpg
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...5_800x600_.jpg

a few pics from my gallery. did the install last week....to be honest it took longer then i expected. The week before I did a stereo in a friends truck and it only took me a day. Mine took me 4!!! I guess because I had to run all new speaker wire and add sound deadening. The first day I spent on the driverside door alone. running speaker wire thru the doors is no simple task.
 
Reply
Old May 10, 2011 | 07:52 PM
  #110  
BMBULBE's Avatar
BMBULBE
5th Gear
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 651
Likes: 9
From: Chicago
The first step at least in my mind would be to make sure that the new speakers, head unit, amp, etc (the whole works) will actually work together as a system before any work starts or any money is spent. Suffice it to say that I had a fried amp in my basement for years that simply would not work with my other components (and had to replace) that I did not want to pay to have repaired, but could not bear to throw away.
 
Reply
Old May 10, 2011 | 09:00 PM
  #111  
TomFarin's Avatar
TomFarin
3rd Gear
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by BMBULBE
The first step at least in my mind would be to make sure that the new speakers, head unit, amp, etc (the whole works) will actually work together as a system before any work starts or any money is spent. Suffice it to say that I had a fried amp in my basement for years that simply would not work with my other components (and had to replace) that I did not want to pay to have repaired, but could not bear to throw away.
Bmbulbe,

There are only three ways I can think of that would meet your criteria.
1. Rely on a pro to design and install your system. Be prepared to write a very big check. Depend on the pro to make it work.
2. Turn your specs over to someone at Crutchfield and depend on them to design a system to meet your needs.
3. Exactly duplicate what a buddy has done after hearing his install. Assume your needs are exactly the same as his.

There is a fourth potential approach. Build your system in stages. That is what I'm going to do.
1. Start out upgrading the speakers. Listen to the results of the upgrade. I ordered my Polk DB-6501s and DB-691s from the cheapest source, Amazon. In my case I've installed these speakers before in my '11 MCSC. After installing, decide if the speaker quality improvement meets your objectives. If there is a possibility you may not go on to step 2, pick very efficient speakers as the MINI base head unit is underpowered. That is why I went with the Polks in my last two installs. If the speaker imprivement does not sufficiently meet your needs then:
2. Do the head unit swap next. Before purchasing the head unit, make a list of what is important to you and what isn't iPod, Bluetooth, HD, satellite, etc. In selecting the head unit, make sure it is MINI compatible. If you have steering wheel controls, make sure it can be operated (with an adapter) from the steering wheel. The Crutchfield site is helpful here. I'll order the head unit from Crutchfield even if I pay a premium as the advice, the installation materials, and Mini specific instructions are worth the premium. After the head unit swap, evaluate how you feel about the power/distortion tradeoffs involved in powering your door and rear panel speakers directly from the head unit. Evaluate how well it supports the requirements you listed earlier. Evaluate whether the bass response meets your needs. If you feel you are underpowered:
3. Purchase and install a separate booster amp to power the door and rear panel speakers. Make sure the head unit you purchase has six pre-amp outs. Four will go to your booster amp. The amplified output will go from the booster amp to your speakers. Evaluate whether you need a sub after going through the amp upgrade. If yes:
4. Purchase and install a powered sub. The other two pre-amp outs will power the powered sub. If you plan to do a rear seat delete as I do, you might instead go with one or two small subs powered by a sub amp and build the subs into the rear seat delete cover.

Some of us (myself included) tend to panic and feel we need to do everything right now. It is a whole lot easier on your wallet and not a great deal more work if you take it one step at a time. If something goes wring and you take it in stages, it is a lot easier to debug the install, "Speakers were working before and aren't now, I wonder what I did wrong in installing the head unit?"

My speakers are on order. I should see them next week. I'm trying real hard to avoid pulling the trigger on a head unit purchase for my new R53 until I've installed the speakers and see how it sounds. But it is so tempting to move on to Step 2 before you have finished Step 1.

I have a sub amp and two small subs that were intended for a Chevy Avalanche install that never happened. I also have an Alpine Amp and a powered sub that were purchased to install in my '11 RCSC. My lady who is driving the RCSC MINI is pretty happy with what she has. Expensive lessons have been learned.

On the other hand, I may already have the booster amp I need and either a powered sub or a sub amp with two small subs to complete my installation if I elect to move on to steps 3 and 4.

Tom
 

Last edited by TomFarin; May 10, 2011 at 09:06 PM.
Reply
Old May 11, 2011 | 04:16 AM
  #112  
PA-MCS's Avatar
PA-MCS
3rd Gear
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
From: abbottstown, pa
Originally Posted by TomFarin
Bmbulbe,

There are only three ways I can think of that would meet your criteria.
1. Rely on a pro to design and install your system. Be prepared to write a very big check. Depend on the pro to make it work.
2. Turn your specs over to someone at Crutchfield and depend on them to design a system to meet your needs.
3. Exactly duplicate what a buddy has done after hearing his install. Assume your needs are exactly the same as his.

There is a fourth potential approach. Build your system in stages. That is what I'm going to do.
1. Start out upgrading the speakers. Listen to the results of the upgrade. I ordered my Polk DB-6501s and DB-691s from the cheapest source, Amazon. In my case I've installed these speakers before in my '11 MCSC. After installing, decide if the speaker quality improvement meets your objectives. If there is a possibility you may not go on to step 2, pick very efficient speakers as the MINI base head unit is underpowered. That is why I went with the Polks in my last two installs. If the speaker imprivement does not sufficiently meet your needs then:
2. Do the head unit swap next. Before purchasing the head unit, make a list of what is important to you and what isn't iPod, Bluetooth, HD, satellite, etc. In selecting the head unit, make sure it is MINI compatible. If you have steering wheel controls, make sure it can be operated (with an adapter) from the steering wheel. The Crutchfield site is helpful here. I'll order the head unit from Crutchfield even if I pay a premium as the advice, the installation materials, and Mini specific instructions are worth the premium. After the head unit swap, evaluate how you feel about the power/distortion tradeoffs involved in powering your door and rear panel speakers directly from the head unit. Evaluate how well it supports the requirements you listed earlier. Evaluate whether the bass response meets your needs. If you feel you are underpowered:
3. Purchase and install a separate booster amp to power the door and rear panel speakers. Make sure the head unit you purchase has six pre-amp outs. Four will go to your booster amp. The amplified output will go from the booster amp to your speakers. Evaluate whether you need a sub after going through the amp upgrade. If yes:
4. Purchase and install a powered sub. The other two pre-amp outs will power the powered sub. If you plan to do a rear seat delete as I do, you might instead go with one or two small subs powered by a sub amp and build the subs into the rear seat delete cover.

Some of us (myself included) tend to panic and feel we need to do everything right now. It is a whole lot easier on your wallet and not a great deal more work if you take it one step at a time. If something goes wring and you take it in stages, it is a lot easier to debug the install, "Speakers were working before and aren't now, I wonder what I did wrong in installing the head unit?"

My speakers are on order. I should see them next week. I'm trying real hard to avoid pulling the trigger on a head unit purchase for my new R53 until I've installed the speakers and see how it sounds. But it is so tempting to move on to Step 2 before you have finished Step 1.

I have a sub amp and two small subs that were intended for a Chevy Avalanche install that never happened. I also have an Alpine Amp and a powered sub that were purchased to install in my '11 RCSC. My lady who is driving the RCSC MINI is pretty happy with what she has. Expensive lessons have been learned.

On the other hand, I may already have the booster amp I need and either a powered sub or a sub amp with two small subs to complete my installation if I elect to move on to steps 3 and 4.

Tom
But if you have a HK system you cant go in stages. If you have the nonHK system then its possible. I would switch your stage 1 with stage 2. Get the aftermarket cd player "first". This will give your factory speakers more power and will be a noticable improvement. Then move to step 2, different speakers

I found the HK system, while in fact good, Its just that I always found it that the volume would only go so high.

So planning and research is the key!!!
check sites like: crutchfield-good for headunits because it come with everything you need(mounting kit, harness, and antenna adapter)
woofersetc.com
onlinecarstereo.com

I purchased my HU from crutchfield and woofersetc i bought speakers, amp, rca's and wiring. Total I spent around $850, for a system that is louder and cleaner then the HK
 
Reply
Old May 11, 2011 | 06:02 PM
  #113  
Scavenger's Avatar
Scavenger
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,692
Likes: 1
The pics look great, the non-glossy face definitely looks good.
 
Reply
Old May 13, 2011 | 11:31 AM
  #114  
TomFarin's Avatar
TomFarin
3rd Gear
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
PA-MCS

I'll agree step one and two could be reversed on a base audio Generation 1. You can do the first step (speakers) with the HK unit then decide whether to upgrade head and amp.

From a practical standpoint, after spending the last 3 days going back and forth from Madison to Seattle with lots of time in airports to do little other than dig through the Crutchfield site, it was pretty obvious I was going to replace the head unit too.

So I violated my own recommendations and pulled the trigger on a head unit purchase today. I went with the JVC Arsenal KD-A725 plus their bluetooth adaptor and the steering wheel adapter box. I like the fact with an iPhone you can access pandora with that unit without popping for a HD radio. I can always add that piece later. I suspect with all said and done, I'll be in the same price range as you ($850) as my Crutchfield rep indicated he thought I'd also be adding a 4 channel amp before it is over.

In comparing to factory costs, keep in mind that at least a setup like mine not only is a substitute for the cost of the HK upgrade, it also replaces the cost of the iPod bluetooth adapter. On a new MINI we're talking close to $1,000. Both of us will be comfortably under that with a far better system.

I'm going to start a thread and do a step by step on my install. I know there are other threads out there but they are in bits and pieces. I want to go through prioritizing and how that led to the equipment decision. Then I'll go step by step through the install.

Tom
 
Reply
Old May 18, 2011 | 04:57 AM
  #115  
PA-MCS's Avatar
PA-MCS
3rd Gear
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
From: abbottstown, pa
Originally Posted by Scavenger
The pics look great, the non-glossy face definitely looks good.
Thanks Scavenger. I love the HU it does everything. my only complaint is the screen is sometimes hard to read. not sure if its because of the the orange text color or the sun reflecting off the screen.
 
Reply
Old May 31, 2011 | 06:35 AM
  #116  
cali411's Avatar
cali411
Neutral
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
If anyone is upgrading their H/K system, I am looking for a replacement H/K amp. I have an '03 Mini Cooper S.

Thanks
 

Last edited by cali411; May 31, 2011 at 06:38 AM. Reason: re-wording the request
Reply
Old May 31, 2011 | 07:29 AM
  #117  
PA-MCS's Avatar
PA-MCS
3rd Gear
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
From: abbottstown, pa
Originally Posted by cali411
If anyone is upgrading their H/K system, I am looking for a replacement H/K amp. I have an '03 Mini Cooper S.

Thanks
I have one from a 2005. Not sure of any changes from 2003 to 2005, maybe someone else can answer that question. Im pretty sure they are not cheap from the dealership. Not sure what used ones go for....throw me a offer!!
 
Reply
Old Jun 4, 2011 | 01:57 PM
  #118  
shepj999's Avatar
shepj999
Neutral
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Sharing a couple of notes

Hi All!

Just replaced the stock HU in my wife's 05 Cooper S convertible (no H/K, no nav) with a Kenwood Excelon KDC-X695 HU. I had the Metra harness, so I took note of the info from this thread and just clipped the ignition wire from the Mini harness and wired the Kenwood ignition and the Axxess SWC ignition to that. No issues at all and no fumbling with the fuse block.

With regards to the Axxess SWC, use the wiring pinouts for the 2005 BMW 325xi - simply use the white/red/yellow polka dot line on the Mini harness and connect to the Axxess pink line. Wire to the radio according to their instructions and it should synch up properly.

I got the Kenwood for the IPod/IPhone access and Bluetooth. The Bluetooth microphone sits between the two dials on the steering wheel and the wiring is in the lower front dash cover. It did take be about 4 hours as I was being careful with the wires. Wouldn't it be nice if all interface connections were one standard type - USB or something similar?

Great thread, though. I read through all of it before starting my upgrade.

Regards, Jim
 
Reply
Old Jul 2, 2011 | 01:38 PM
  #119  
tutono's Avatar
tutono
1st Gear
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Aftermarket Preamp Outputs

Couldn't you simply connect the preamp outputs of an after market HU into the L/R speaker positions of the harness?
 
Reply
Old Jul 16, 2011 | 06:33 PM
  #120  
lpt2569's Avatar
lpt2569
Neutral
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
My wife has an 03 Mini Cooper S, and the amp has gone bad. Is it possible/recommended to do any of the following: 1) rewire the speakers directly from the HU, bypassing the amp, or 2) add new HU (with USB/Bluetooth, etc.) and rewire to the speakers, bypassing the amp, or 3) add new HU and new speakers, and live with that until we decide if we want to add and amp. If new HU is added, will the steering wheel controls still work?

Any help anyone can offer is greatly appreciated. We want to get tunes back the easiest/least expensive way so we can sell it and get a Countryman (we have a 2 year old, and the Mini is just, well...too mini).
 

Last edited by lpt2569; Jul 16, 2011 at 07:10 PM. Reason: wrong year for car
Reply
Old Jul 17, 2011 | 06:37 AM
  #121  
Bradley99's Avatar
Bradley99
3rd Gear
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
From: 3rd Stone from the Sun
The easiest way is to buy a replacement component. Easiest/inexpensive, buy the replacement used, perhaps eBay or even here on the NAM forum classifieds. If you have the H/K there is no inexpensive solution.
 
Reply
Old Jul 17, 2011 | 07:26 AM
  #122  
lpt2569's Avatar
lpt2569
Neutral
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Bradley99
The easiest way is to buy a replacement component. Easiest/inexpensive, buy the replacement used, perhaps eBay or even here on the NAM forum classifieds. If you have the H/K there is no inexpensive solution.
Thanks. It is the HK system...pain in the ****. Anybody know the model # for the amp? I've seen a few different model numbers thrown around.
 
Reply
Old Jul 18, 2011 | 09:30 AM
  #123  
lpt2569's Avatar
lpt2569
Neutral
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Thanks. If we try to replace the HK amp, does anybody know the model of the HK amp we need? I've seen a few model numbers thrown around, not sure which is correct.
 
Reply
Old Aug 13, 2011 | 10:23 AM
  #124  
pew1375's Avatar
pew1375
3rd Gear
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 291
Likes: 4
From: Las Vegas, NV
Thanks for the pics and step by step! I installed an XM receiver yesterday in the cubby on the passenger side of the boot. It was pretty easy once I got the panels off! It did save me $300! (car toys wanted $300 to do it)
I actually feel better having done it myself!
 
Reply
Old Sep 14, 2011 | 05:54 AM
  #125  
Kevin@Integral Audio's Avatar
Kevin@Integral Audio
Banned
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 464
Likes: 29
I realize this is two months old, but in case you are still looking into this or for the benefit of others:

Originally Posted by lpt2569
Is it possible/recommended to do any of the following: 1) rewire the speakers directly from the HU, bypassing the amp
No, not possible. The 1st gen HK system has a 2 ch fixed low-voltage output from the headunit, and volume level/balance/fade/etc info is sent over the CAN bus. If you tried to run directly from the HU, you'd only have two speakers (out of 6), they'd be extremely quiet, and you'd have no volume control.

2) add new HU (with USB/Bluetooth, etc.) and rewire to the speakers, bypassing the amp
Yes, this is possible. The rewiring is a quite a bit of work, and you need to deal with crossover location/mounting OR go with plain coax speakers in the fronts.

3) add new HU and new speakers, and live with that until we decide if we want to add and amp. If new HU is added, will the steering wheel controls still work?
Yes, this is possible, but again you'd need to deal with the wiring. Your steering wheel controls will not work unless you add an adapter (PAC and Metra make them, among others).

Any help anyone can offer is greatly appreciated. We want to get tunes back the easiest/least expensive way...
Unfortunately there is no easy way to piecemeal upgrade/replace the HK system (or any of the MINI upgraded systems for that matter). It's pretty much replace all of it, or none of it.
 
Reply



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:50 AM.