The first thing to do is improve the “room”. While unique & challenging, the sound environment of a car is no exception. Everyone tends to overlook this basic truth. It’s not cool or glamorous as a new HU or amp… no new bling impress yourself or your friends with. BUT the contribution is significant.

Until you improve the environment you really won’t know how good (or bad) the HK really sounds.

I have the HK system. It’s OK. I’ve dyna-matted the interior & filled void spaces in the car with poly-pro batting (the stuff they fill pillows with). The improvement is REAL. Unless you’re completely worried about adding a bit of weight to your car there’s no reason you shouldn’t mat it & stuff it. Its work, but its low cost comparatively. If in the end you still don’t like the HK system you can rest easy knowing that your environment is ready for your new killer rig.

FYI
I’m into audio too; I have a decent 2-channel hi-end rig. I’ve heard improved sound in my own system as I’ve tweaked over the past 6 years… treating my listening room. One of my audiophile friends has a wild 2-channel system - he must have spent ½ million to assemble it. If you’re like me you might think - hell, for that kind of money I want a religious experience - angels singing, the whole 9. Well, my buddy’s system does sound really good, a lot better than most. BUT it was not the aforementioned “religious experience”. Recently my buddy completed a custom room treatment. No changes to the structure, just absorptive panels, diffusers and bass traps - same audio gear. The end result sounds UN-FREAKING BELIEVABLE! Now I can almost appreciate why he spent so much loot on the gear… Its not angels singing, but it does sound like there’s live music in his room – its that good.

EDIT:
Acoustat electrostatics eh? Those puppies must have a monster high-current amp to drive 'em. The load has got to dip down near 2 ohms!

Now I understand a bit better as to why you find the sound in the MINI lacking. You won't get anything aproaching electrostat sound presentation in the MINI. I like that air-i-ness too.

I haven't worked on an aftermarket car audio system in a while, the last one I had was in an old '92 Swift GT. 600 watts & it wasn't just a boom machine... 2-channel, 8 speakers, active crossover. It sounded great. The HK is a far cry from even that old system. However based on how good I got the swift (similar in shape and size) to sound I bet the MINI being far more rigid can sound better. FYI I had a few JBL speakers in that car... A really nice wide dispersion 1" Titanium-dome tweater. Don't knock JBL without listening. Most speaker companies have cheap stuff & good stuff. But I doubt you could go wrong with Focal drivers.

 

I may have dranken a bit, but I do not know what minimc is talkning about. To me, its simple, start with the obvious, and weakest link (head unit), and work out from there: head unit...amp/sub...door components

 

Let's not blame the booze.

The best HU you are willing to buy is always a good thing. When it comes to the source: Garbage in = garbage out

A DSP or parametric EQ & active cross-over (to tune out bloated areas of the frequency range) will go a long way to improved sound. Good ones aren't cheap though.

If you haven't deadened your interior with dynamat, felt and or other absorptive & vibration-deadening materials you have no idea of just how good your stereo can sound. Spend a weekend damping the car everything will sound better

 

Annette,

I've installed an Alpine IVA-D310 with iPod adapter with my HK using GBMini's HKEnabler as well as all the other required adapters from Mikeythemini (www.newministuff.co.uk) - fascia, MFSW and antenna adapter....(I'm sure there are other sources; I was happy with Mikey's customer service and he's well known in the UK Mini scene)

I'm quite happy with the outcome, except for a few minor quibbles:

1. the HK enabler seems to run the HK system too loud for my tastes. I've got the fade on the HU faded to the rear (my system is only stereo) to take some of the 'loudness' away.
2. the Alpine ipod interface is sorta slow.
3. the touch-screen scroller is painful It takes ages to find things as it's a bit 'clunky'.

I don't know if Alpine has improved these features, and if they have, great!

Another thing I've heard on the mini forums is that many people think the HK isn't loud enough. I personally don't think it is and am quite happy with the HK...

Have a look at my gallery if you want to see the install.

Whatever your solution is - I hope your'e happy with the outcome!

 

Funny, but with all the yardsticks mentioned in this thread, no one's addressed the thing most important to me: How Much Time Do I Spend In My Car?

When I was an Interstate 80 (NJ) road warrior, I commuted 2hrs every day, and on weekends, hours more cruising with the wife and kids. At that time, I'd gladly have spent $2500 on a quality system.

Today, I do all short hops that are about 20 minutes both ways. So why spend that kind of $$$.

I'm still running stock oem. I am psyched about the 2006 iPod ready Alpines: especially the CDA9856 & 57. They have the same 18wpc as the 9853, which I heard driving a set of non-hk,un amplified oem speakers, and the improvement was significant. Alpine told me yesterday the '56 is not mfsw compatible without an ir adaptor, but the 9857 is, just like the 51, 53, and 55.

That's probably the upgrade I'm going with.

I should mention that the Crutchfield web page is currently in error. It attributes only 16wpc to the 9856, but Alpine tech set it straight: 16wpc in the 9852, 18wpc in the 9856 & 57.

 

Actually, that's what the HK system already is, and one reason that it is not easy to upgrade the HK piecemeal by changing various components (e.g. its speakers).

 

I agree that your H/K seems a little screwy. Mine sounds stunning, especially with my new favorite CD - Cream at the Royal Albert Hall 2005. It is a stunning recording of a live set, awesome seperation and presence. I've especially noticed that the H/K system (mine at least) does a very good job of reproducing drum sounds. I have a crappy, mono, ear monitor recording of a recent Steely Dan show and the drums are absolutely awesome -- thank you Keith Carlock!

So please listen to at least one other H/K system (with your discs), and maybe have someone else listen to your system and the other one back-to-back. I got my line-in aux adapter for Christmas and have yet to install it (bloody weather), but I can't wait to fiddle about with that soon.

Good luck BoCRon

 

I am not a big fan of the HK in my 2005 MINI.

As to why spend the money on a better system rather than on a better home system - I spend about 400 hours a year (if not more) in my car. In my house I have a million things to do. In my car I have one thing to do - listen to my sound system.

To my taste the HK clarity is fine but the volume is poor with the ipod adapter. Once I have the sunroof and/or windows open the volume is woefully inadequate. The CD on the HK is better but the radio is almost as bad as the ipod.

Then the ipod adapter controls are also incredibly bad. Aftermarket ipod inetrfacing is so much better.

I have compared to an HK in the showroom and after also hearing similar comments from others many times, I have determined that there is nothing wrong with my HK. It is just inadequate (for me).

The $550 for the HK is an upgrade price. What we are really paying for it I don't know. (Standard unit cost plus $550). I wish we could order a MINI with no sound system and take the money elsewhere. I would bet for the same money you could do better with aftermarket.

I have a 2005 Alpine with Alpine's ipod adapter and Sirius in another vehicle. It is so much better in all ways than the HK. This actually highlights another problem with the HK. You can have a cd changer (in the boot) OR an ipod adapter OR Sirius OR aux input but you have to pick one and only one (at least with dealer install). My Alpine has a multi disc AND sirius AND ipod. Plus adding the ipod and the Sirius only costs about $100 extra for each as opposed to what it costs to add these things in ordereing a MINI at your dealer (a lot more).

Then to top it off - due to the uniqueness of the Hk - making any modification to it is a nightmare (like adding an amp). It seems to boil down to replacing the entire system to make a real upgrade.

So for some the HK is fine but for others (like me) it is a disappointment.

 

While the sound quality coming out of the iPod's earphone jack is 1000x better than what it is achieved with the iTrip, truth is that sound is still even better when you use the iPod's docking connection. The OEM iPod adaptor as well as the Dension ICE Link Plus they use the dock port connector, hence the better sound quality.

 

What I like about the H/K is that you don't have to sacrifice precious cargo space to accomodate subwoofers and such. Instead it is a transparent installation.

I still don't understand claims that the H/K is not loud enough with the iPod adaptor. In my car, I feel the drums behind me and the rear view mirror vibrates wildly when the volume is pumped up significantly.

I guess the H/K is simply too refined for some folks in the sense that this is not an glass shattering system. I understand that. A reason why a lot of people seem to like the standard stereo is because they perceive it to be louder than the H/K and for some Volume is more important than actual sound reproduction clarity.

The H/K is pretty unforgiving when it comes to lousy quality records. If you have good quality music, the system will enhance it, if you don't, you'll hear the most crappy reproduction ever.

I still contend Annette should give her H/K a second and last chance. I am not convinced her stereo is in good working condition. When she mentioned "Sound distortion, falling apart at higher volume levels" that to me is a red flag. Either the amp/dsp unit or the speakers are damaged. Maybe even the HU is defective.

 

I live in the Atlanta area as well........ the guys at Cartunes on Roswell road are the best I know of....... ask for Jim or Richard..... (they do not know me as SpiderX) I have been a mfgs rep for pro audio for 25 years. There are so many considerations for good audio that a truly great system is putting the right components in the right place..... What I see from most car audio is "more-louder"...... I will say this... the power amp is usually the best first upgrade. It is amazing what a good power amp can do with mediocre speakers. It's all about control on the voice coils and a good power amp makes a big difference. To do the job you would need to take an acoustical measurement.....find what the acoustic properties and the ambient noise levels are as well as there freq content and how they react to speed etc and then start to choose components. Placement also has an incredible effect but in cars it is hard to change this. "There is nothing more fragile than good audio" - a physicist friend of mine who consults for JBL said that..... My advice...call Jim at Cartunes

 

Wow what a lot to catch up on!

MINItor, that pic looks very interesting and I'd love to see more - but it looks like you replaced your REAR SEATS with audio equipment?! That's a rather extreme way to improve the audio ... GBMINI no doubt can't thump like your car but its subs sound good and they take up zero space in the rear seats or the trunk.

C4, I do believe there have been changes in the H/K amp - there are a number of different p/ns for it (see realoem) but of course we have no info on what changes occurred.

I also side with MINItor rather than you about audio in my MINI - while I agree that a car is not the best audio listening spot, it is MY spot and I normally am alone in there so I can listen to what I like at what volume I like. Can't do that at home unless I resort to headphones.


And BoCRon, from your description I think you definitely need to figure out why your car sounds like it does - if there is a fault with the H/K amp or speakers, the aftermarket HU will make no difference at all!
Select one or more favourite CDs and listen to them in your car, and again try the different modes to see which one you like most. Maybe that will sound much better (in which case maybe blame the iTrip).
Otherwise, take those same CDs to your MINI dealership and check out some more HK cars - if that car sounds much better, you have a problem which you can demonstrate to the dealership and demand that they fix.
Do this *before* you start changing head units or whatever - you can't expect warranty support if you change out anything.

 

Ian, thanks for the chart. So if I am interpreting it correctly, there have been 5 "revisions" of the H/K amplifier? The first two probably never made it stateside as the H/K stereo was not put into production for US bound MINIs until December 2002 (2003 MY).


Also regarding my previous comments.....

There is a reason why I spent $550 on the H/K stereo and another bunch on the iPod adaptor and the 4GB iPod Nano...its because I LOVE music and I also find that the car provides that private listening space while I am motoring.

However, the point that I was trying to make is that personally I think it is a waste of money to spend thousands of Dollars on aftermarket car audio equipment to achieve somewhat marginal results. The cockpit is small and full of hard plastic plus road noise doesn't make it the best sound environment, doesn't it?

Sure, if you spend at least $3K you may obtain better sound quality than the factory H/K (Which I am not claiming to be the absolute best system out there, but I am defending because it is a darn good system for a factory setup at a reasonably price point) but you are still dealing with the same acoustic constraints inside the car.

Another caveat I have with high end aftermarket installs (Aside from essentially forcing to take apart your car's interior) is that some components take away precious cargo or passenger room. I am sure MINITRON's setup sounds like nothing else, but look! he had to remove his back seat and probably take up boot space to be able to fit his system!

So I guess in the end, some folks (Including you & I) are pretty happy with the H/K sound quality, while others prefer to take it to a higher level, spend serious cash and perhaps compromise interior space to bring out the sound quality they believe the system should provide.

 

LOL, You just took me back in time. When my dad first got these, it wasn't unusual for him to cause a slight brown out He'd be in the "lab" (living room) and you'd hear a hum and zap you'd be in a dimmer room then finally black. Then my mom would start screaming and my dad would start scrambling to get the power back. I was in high school at the time and all of my friends thought it was very cool and highly entertaining!
It was a righteous set-up to say the least and when it was working correctly you couldn't beat it.


Anyway, I think I'll listen to those in the know around here and spend some more time trying to diagnose what I have before moving on. The dynamat sounds like a good addition, too, since isolating the cabin is usually a good thing for me. Do you guys think that installing the Dynamat myself (or a similar product) is something I could do myself? Does one need special tools to remove the door parts, etc? Also, I've read that there are less expensive alternatives to Dynamat, I was wondering if anyone had any experience with other brands?
I have really enjoyed reading everyone's posts and have learned alot from it. I have spent time on many forums in the last 10yrs and must say that the MINI folks are the most giving and tolerant. No one feels the need to be "superior" and I have found everyone here is truly wanting to help and teach!
I think I may take a ride over to Cartunes, regardless, it never hurts to look at stuff, right?
You guys rock! (so to speak)
Annette

 

It's not actually the Dynamat that makes the car sound better, it's the amount of noise that it reduces that makes the car sound better. For every 3db of noise reduction in the car is equvalent of doubling your system power...I was an intstaller for a number of years and insulating the car against noise is the easiest way to make any system sound better..

 

I don't think you need to spend $3k or even $2k to exceed the HK. That statement has been made a few times. First it is hard to compare apples to apples. There is the very subjective matter of sound quality.

I imagine that the people spending that kind of money are getting so much more (in some ways) than the hk offers. Like subs and ipod and sirius or changers and substantially more powerful amps.

My guess is that for $500 to $600 you can get a head unit comparable to the Hk but with an in dash changer. Then an amp for $200 would give substantially more power and then combine with 4 speakers at around $500 and you have a system with a changer that would be competitive with the Hk for $1,300 but has substantially more power. Now add an ipod adpater that is far superior to the oem adapter for only $100 and sirius for another $100 (which MINI charges $500 for).

When I had my Alpine system installed in my other vehicle I think I spent no more than $1,300. They charged nothing for the sirius and ipod install (what does the MINI dealer charge for these things).

 

I agree. Where are people getting this number? My $900 system in my MC sounds far better than the HK. For around $1000 it is easy to upgrade.

Regarding my MCS, I had only had a passenger in the back twice in 2 years, so replacing the rear seat with a sub actually only increased cargo room. It is so much more spacious without it.

 

Sweet, I am now MINITRON. I like that.

I don't know where this $3k number comes from, but that would not produce "marginal" results. $1k does not provide marginal results either, it provides far superiour sound quality. One of the points of the system is to drown out all of the road noise. And as I said before, removing the rear seats and putting in my sub (doesn't take up any boot space) actually increased my "precious" cargo room. So interior space wasnt compromised, it was increased along with the sound quality and cosmetic bling factor.

 

First, having spent nearly $2K (at "Terrible Tweeter") and got a result nowhere near the H/K system - so that it was ripped out and the H/K replaced ...
And second, having spent almost $2.5K at a great installer to get a system which definitely does sound better than the H/K ...
I stand behind the figures I have claimed before.

Your prices of (for example) $1300 have zero for labour - OK if you do everything yourself but the H/K upgrade is an INSTALLED system. You also have to "hide" the amp somewhere (enclosure costs) or will you just lay it on the rear seats

I have firsthand experience of a MINI with H/K and a MINI without H/K so I feel my statements have extra weight over anyone who has not lived with the H/K for two years ... it is a VERY impressive system at its price point, but it does have some negatives ...

... which is why GBMINI#3 does not have H/K but a fully aftermarket system at that previously mentioned $2.5K price point. Sorry to disagree C4 but I was never completely happy with the H/K, even though I was impressed.

I think that is right - in fact it's possible there have been other changes (sometimes there is a design alteration with no p/n change), and it's also possible there have been alterations to the speakers and/or the speaker mounting space.
I never bothered to compared GBMINI#2 with a more modern H/K equipped MINI but I regularly read of unhappy and happy owners - there is of course lots of personal preference but maybe there is car-to-car variation as well.

 

I had my MC system installed for $150. That was $250 each for the head unit, amp, and sub/box, plus the $150 for labor = $900. Maybe the systems you had installed were not good matches or money well spent? Or maybe I lucked out with a great system. The $1300 was including labor as well.

 

GBMINI, your knowledge and experience is far far greater than mine so I would never dream of challenging you on it. Everything you say is true and my $1,300 system does not include installation and amp location is an issue.

Most of what I say is out of the disappointment I have for the HK. The volume and ipod controls are especially disappointing. Hk being an "upgrade" I sure wish it were better than it is. On other cars I own or have owned an uograded OEM system kicks the butt of the HK. And based on other cars I own or have owned in which I have had aftermarket systems installed again they kick the butt of the HK.

And I should say I am otherwise an HK fan. I have continuously had HK home systems ever since I purchased my first stereo system about 30 years ago.

I know now you can get the MINI digital power sound modul at a cost of $1,650 which I think is a dealer add on (for the standard system) so that price does not include installation. I wish I knew of someone who has it or has heard it. I have posted about this and never got a response from someone who has it or has heard it. The on line info about it is not very informative and I don't know of a dealer that has one to listen to. Otherwise, if it is really kick butt while retaining the OEM look, this would be the kind of thing I would consider regardless of price. The sound system is important to me and I spend a lot of time in my cars.

 

I agree with you about the lack of knowledge on the DPSM ... however since it still basically uses "normal" speakers in the normal locations, I think at its price it will be a disappointment to many. I imagine it would be loud, but I can't see it getting the deep bass resonance it would need to be satisfying.

Of course like you I have never heard it.

 

DPSM only adds an external amp and upgrades the speakers. After $1,650 plus five hours of dealer installation, you are still stuck with the base stock head unit. I recall seeing the sales sheet for the product (I think on MotoringFile), which said that it does not include or require a subwoofer!

 

You lucked out. A JL Audio Stealthbox and an amp will run the average Joe close to $1000 installed. Getting a complete system that is "great" for $1300 takes luck.

 

The stealthbox is priced on looks, not just performance. The w3 speaker it uses is only $200, and add a $50 hatchback box and you have the same performance of the stealthbox for $250. You can then get a Rockford Fosgate 300 watt mono sub amp for about $250. Add the Alpine head unit of your choice and you have three great brands with adequate power. The increased power to the stock door speakers sounds way better plus the Alpine clarity and control, with a little bit of thump from the sub. Install on this shouldn't be more than a few hundred either. This already sounds better than the HK, for around $1000 depending on the head unit. This is what I have in my MC, and I have also tried other subs in similar price ranges with great results.