Really? Why then is 61 12 0 440 812 mentioned in this BMW thread from December of '07??

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...=45991&page=43

And why was my car delivered with the 440 796 part number in December of '09, if the part was allegedly "replaced" by the part mentioned back in '07? Something is WAY out of whack here.

You cite "site guidelines" about etiquette, then spew this attitude towards us? More than just a bit hypocritical. Please, lighten up. The search function here is nearly worthless. We don't need to hear anyone preaching about how many times something is mentioned in other threads - implying that the person is an idiot for not finding it first with this lame search engine.

 

Yeah, well, since that cable existed at LEAST as far back as 12/07, I'd say your information is incorrect. You can climb down off your high horse now.

 

 

I really don't want to pour any accelerant on this thread so I’ll start with this disclaimer:

I have used the search function to see if I could find any information on the following items using multiple variations in the numbers. I have also used various internet search methods with limited results. My question is germane to the thread in which it is posted and I hope to share relevant information with the MINI community while also learning from those who have better access and more experience than I.

Now to the point.

I’m finding two part numbers for the “Cable, Adapter” for an 09 MCS, Left Hand Drive, USA but I can’t find anything that will tell me which of the two cables I already have or what the difference is between the two. Will either of these cables support charging for an iPhone 3GS?

61120412795

61120415047 (IF ZU IPOD)
What does “IF ZU IPOD” mean?

Can anyone tell the rest of us (with appropriate sourcing information) if this is a cable issue or is it an interface/power issue cause by Apple changing the power requirements of the 3GS?

Thanks,
Craig

 

cmcveay,

The two part numbers you listed above are part of a iPod Retrofit Kit. This kit installs in the secret compartment and are not the cables for the USB optioned car, as show in the picture below.

 

I have a real anomaly with the "Y" adaptor.

I have an old classic 30 Gig Ipod that lives in my C300. When I bought the Mini, I "borrowed" it and plugged it into the Mini and used it for several weeks. It worked perfectly.

Then I got a brand new Gen 5 Ipod Nano for the Mini, and based on the things I read here, I went out and bought a Scosche adaptor so that my little Nano would charge itself. I had done a Nano search and learned that there were "incompatabilities" and I felt kinda smug to know that I would not have to deal with them because I was an informed user.

The Nano worked but did not charge itself. As a test, I removed the Scosche adaptor and plugged the Gen 5 Nano directly into the Y plug. It worked perfectly and it charges the Nano.

All I lost was the $29 I spent for the Scosche, but I also learned to take things I "learn on the net" with just a little bit of concern.

My adaptor is a 0 440 796. My Mini is an August 2009 build. Its adaptor was in a sealed plastic bag in its glove compartment when it came off the truck.

I'm not sure who is right here -- I only know what works in a BRG MC built in August of 09. Very confusing.

Hmmmmmmm.

 

Because BMW's always get the parts before MINI and this is a proven fact. Check on when the BMW vs. MINI changed from CAN-BUS to MOST-BUS for audio distribution you will find that the BMW's had it 2 years earlier. MINI's are always the last to be updated.

Also seeing as you do not want to believe me check out what someone else stated in another thread.

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...45-post15.html

I can not tell you the reason for that but I would speculate that MINI was trying to use up old stock, and how best to do that - continue to put it in cars you are building and then if the customer complains replace it or from their perspective have the customer purchase the upgraded cable.

 

Schatzy,
Thank you. I'll continue to see if there are answers to the rest of the questions. I can't even find the PN for the cable that should be with the car when it's got the iPod integration as an installed option and I'm climbing all over RealOEM looking for it. Maybe it's time for a "consolidation thread" for this topic since a iPhone 3GS owners are buying new MINI's (or vice versa) as the years go by and they'll have the same questions.

Herleman,
I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure the charging issue is isolated to the iPhone (and maybe just the 3GS). I've got a 160GB classic that charges and works just fine. I've got a 5G iPod Nano that I've never connected but I'll take it out to the car this afternoon to give it a whirl. That said, I'm pretty sure it's just the iPhone that's got the charging issue when used with the OEM iPod interface cable. I don't have the car charger for my phone handy but I think I have the same one you mentioned and it does charge my 3GS just fine.

Thanks,
Craig

 

The correct part numbers are listed in posts above. They do no show up on the Real OEM site. Why BMW/MINI has some parts that do not show up in their normal parts listing i do not know but that is what these parts are.

The PN is 61 12 0 440 812, and superceeds the previous PN of 61 12 0 440 796.

The charging problem is with all the newer iPod/iPhone products. ALthough in some cars some of the Nano Gen 5 seem to work and in others they do not. The latest Touch and iPhone have the same charging circuits and the major problem with many of the MINI's is that that ULF module will not put out the current required to charge these items. The ULF module will only put out about 400MA and the iPhone/Touch require a minimum of 500MA and prefer 1500MA.

Now with that stated (as I have stated before in this thread) I am not sure if the some of the 09's and the 10's have a new ULF module or not. Or if a new module would also have the same limitation.

The reason I am not sure about this is that the MINI parts locator shows the ULF module from 8-2007 to 7-2008 (also during this time there were two parts depending on options) and then a replacement part from 7-2008 to 3-2009 (during this time there was only one part regardless of options) but there is not a replacement shown for it after 3-2009. Not sure what is up with this.

 

I might be stepping in a little late here. But let's talk and play nicely folks.

 

Schatzy,
Thank you. I had not read/heard that some of the newer iPod's had problems so I prefaced my reply with that and now, I know.

Too bad we don't have a way to figure out more about the ULF's and the cables to identify which combination works with the newer Apple "stuff". Without better resources, it does make it hard to sort through the pieces and all.

Thanks for putting that all together though, I appreciate it.

Craig

 

CMCVEY:

I kinda stumbled around saying it, but if you "search" the 5th Gen iPods here, you'll find lots of discussion about needing the adaptor. That's why I bought it. But, had I just played with the iPod and connector a bit, I would have found that the advice was simply not applicable to my car/ipod combination. Accordingly, in spite of having dutifully used the "search" function as instructed, I still found that the subject had additional facets which had not been explored. That's why I often hesitate to get excited about a posting that has been addressed before -- I've found that new information is often very relevant -- especially when the subject includes Apple.

I'm very interested in knowing if your new iPod works correctly (and, if you do need an adaptor, I can make you one heck of a deal on a little used Scosche -- just kidding, although if you need it, I'll be glad to send it along).

This is a VERY good thread.

 

We are, we had to do a little self moderating...

But we got it all straightened out now

Mark

 

Herleman,
it's all good man, it's all good. I will give my 5G iPod a try just to see if it works too. I've got that Schosche (sp?) lighter adapter in case my phone needs a little "boost" while on the road and it works. I use that older generation giant iPod in the car and my 5G nano goes to the gym with me. It'll still be interesting.

OC - yep, a little self moderation goes a long way!

Craig

 

+1

 

This is the way a forum should be, self moderating

 

I think for the most part, most members are mature enough to step back and take a breath. I know there's been times I wish I had just kept my mouth shut.

That's what I like about this forum, though it's a hair on the goody two shoes side, it's not a bunch of kids. (maturity-wise)

Mark

 

The problem is that USB is a communication standard first with limited power specifications.

I deal with this all the time at work because we sell a proprietary device that communicates VIA USB to download data. We specify what hard drives and thumb drives to use that we can power because we can not provide enough current for some portable hard drives.

Apple and everyone else agree to the voltage standard of (5 volts) and that 500ma is the max amps that the typical USB data bus will output. Unfortunately the cable has little to do with the power output it is only the conduit.

See the attached link for an explanation of the problem, I am sorry it is not a solution.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Berlind/?p=736

 

http://www.scosche.com/products/productID/1667

I bought it for my iPod Touch 3rd Gen, since the Y cable that came with my Clubman would not charge my iPod. Now it works everytime. Don't buy it direct from their website. I bought a brand new adapater, sealed on EBAY for 16.80 including shipping.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...#ht_1825wt_958

 

It may cure the problem with the IPOD but to the best of my knowledge, it doesn't work with the iphone 3GS.

Mark

 

Bad news guys/gals...

per this
http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/61120440812/

p/n 61 12 0 440 812 is actually a SET that includes 61 12 0 440 796

So I'm pretty sure there is no NEW cable out there yet (bummer). In addition, why does the 3GS charge just fine with the standard USB cable that came with the phone if there is a power issue? I'm pretty sure the issue is with the pin out - but until BMW makes some official announcement, we won't know.

 

Oh well, in the meantime I'll have to wear the big headphones (don't like earbuds) while listening to my iphone 3g and driving this great mini.

Thanks everyone for all the research!

 

Are you sure this is a good idea?

 

I was told as late as Jan 22 2010 that there was NOT a new cable YET that dealt with the charging issues. As to what the issue is it has nothing to do whatsoever with the voltage(other than USB and firewire use different voltages) coming from the cable or the car( this has been talked about and discussed to death on other sites)... Apple changed their spec on what pins they us for charging they used to pin out for both firewire AND USB and now they dont pin out the same. They passed that info on to all the makers of their products LONG before they changed things... Thats why some peoples stuff works and some poeples dont(they pinned out for both charging methods to begin with) the cheaper makers only pinned out for the easiest pin out for charging and ditched the redundant pinning... THATS the problem... Once MINI/BMW get a cable with the proper pin out for the charging ALL cars out there will be able to use the new cable and work... AGAIN ITS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR CAR...

This is from apple themselves: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1476

Note: iPhone 3G, iPhone 3GS, iPod touch (2nd generation), and iPod touch (Late 2009) do not support FireWire and will not charge from any FireWire-based power source. If you connect either of these devices to a FireWire-based charger or accessory, you will receive the alert screen below: "Charging is not supported with this accessory."

And before someone claims the MINI uses a USB and not a Firewire port I will say yes I agree but its in the pinnout of the actually Y cable thats the issue...

One more post(look down in the comments ) that explains what I was saying a little better from here:

http://www.applegazette.com/iphone/y...#comment-83490


The iPod connector has two sets of power lines – one for USB and one for Firewire.
Years ago, Apple decided to only support synchronization via USB for iPods.
But it continued charging via Firewire.
However, Firewire charges are no longer made, since USB is the present and future power source for the iPod.
Apple decided to completely remove support for Firewire charging on the iPhone 3G.
Accessory Companies should have seen this coming and also avoid using the firewire lines to charge iPods, instead using the USB power lines.
But not everyone followed this, they could not see the handwriting on the wall.
Thus, certain accessories will not charge the iPhone 3G. NOT all of them, as this article implies, are incompatible with the iPhone 3G when it comes to charging. Only those, whose designers, stupidly used the firewire charging lines will not charge the iPhone 3G.
If anything, these companies who made this mistake should make a firewire-USB adapter in order to allow the iPhone 3G to work without having to purchase a whole new accessory. They can build this into the small iPod specific wells that are placed around the iPod connector.
It is an example of Apple moving forward and abandoning archaic ways of doing things.
it is too bad those accessory makers caught with incompatible hardware made bad decisions.
USB charging is the future of the iPod and iPhone – and largely its present.
Apple is right to do this in that Firewire charging is not usually present on Windows PCs anyway, but USB is standard on both Macs and PCs.
I wouldn’t sweat the small stuff such as this. I would get a new adapter.

One more comment from the same link above :

From a post on the apple support site:
..The Charging System…
Most chargers on the market today are designed to charge via USB or via 12v through the firewire portion of apple dock pins (pins 19,20 12V DC and pins 29,30 Ground). This was an easy choice for the manufacturers because your car is already a 12V based system that kept the charging solutions inexpensive to make. If they already had 12V available, why step it down to 5V to charge via the USB pins? Makes sense right? As you know, Apple has eliminated 12V charging from their newer units but has left a sensing circuit on the firewire pins just to tell you that your old device doesnt work anymore. Your existing chargers will not harm the Iphone, but they are certainly useless.
The new way to charge is through the USB pins on the Apple dock connector ( pin 16 USB GND, pin 23 USB Power 5 VDC, pin 25 USB Data negative, pin 27 USB Data positive ). BUT, you cannot just apply 5V to pin 23 and ground to pin 16. The Iphone is also sensing voltage on USB Data positive (approx 1.8v) and USB Data negative (approx 2.5V).


…The Audio System…
If you had an older gen Ipod like an Ipod Video then the audio outputs were real easy, it always put line out audio through the audio pins in the dock connector. The Iphone is a different animal. The audio and serial pins are still the same on the dock connector, BUUT, there is an accessroy pin (pin 21) that senses the type of accessory that is plugged in. If the correct resistance is NOT on pin 21 then the Iphone completely ignores the connection and does not redirect the audio to the dock. Thus most of your old Ipod Interfaces are now obsolete..


So Schatzy62 you are wrong and the info you have about 400ma or whatever doesnt apply in this case. Sounds to me like MINI/BMW are being lazy in this case instead of making a fix. All the need to do is pin out properly and supply the proper voltages for USB and not firewire.....

 

Seems to me that someone else out there has a solution... So NOW its obvious its just BMW/MINI dragging their feet and is further proof that its NOT your car per se. Its Apple changing the charging spec and then the automakers not changing their stuff. So why is it these guys can come up with a solution but the guys at BMW/MINI cant????

Amazon.com Product Description

The Scosche passPORT USB charging adapter allows accessories that do not support USB charging to work with iPod and iPhone.

Firewire-to-USB Charging Pass-Through
If you have an older iPod interface in your car, battery backup system, or similar product, you might find that charging is not supported with your new iPod. The Scosche passPORT solves that problem with Firewire-to-USB charging capabilities, providing a 12V to 5V solution for iPod nano 4G, iPod touch 2G, and iPhone 3G.
Using passPORT is simple:

1. Plug the dock connector into the female side of the passPORT.
2. Plug the passPORT adapter into your iPod or iPhone.
3. Select a song from your iPod or iPhone and begin enjoying your music while charging

Great for Vehicle iPod Accessories
The passPORT is perfect for older car integration accessories that don't support charging for the iPhone 3G and iPod models released in September 2008 or later. The passPORT is compatible with: several aftermarket head-units as well as Acura, Audi, Aston Martin, Bentley, BMW, Chevrolet, Chrysler, Dodge, Ferrari, Ford, Honda, Hummer, Hyundai, Infiniti, Jaguar, Jeep, Lexus, Lincoln, Mazda, Mercedes Benz, Mercury, Mini Cooper, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Pontiac, Porsche, Rolls Royce, Saab, Saturn, Scion, Suzuki, Toyota, Volvo, and VW. (Not compatible with select Pioneer head-units that use the CD-iB100 or CD-i200 iPod to IP-Bus adapter.) Note: The passPORT is specifically designed to fix the charging error associated with several iPod and iPhone accessories. If the accessory you are intending to use does not initially support the audio or video functionality of the iPod or iPhone, the passPORT will not enable these features.