I'm about to install my first system in my mcs '09. I handmade the box and false floor already and put shaggy carpet everywhere (I think it goes well with the '70 looks of the car). I want to upgrade my big three when I put my amp in but need more information first. http://forum.sounddomain.com/ubbthre.../312025/page/1

Few questions: 1) where the heck is the alternator? 2) how many amps should I fuse the positive alt wire to positive bat (i.e. what is the max amp of the alt)? 3) If I do this, will it trip any sensor of the car?

btw has anyone else done this upgrade?

Thanks,

Mike B

 

how much current does your amp draw? Are you just doing a sub amp? Is so you might save a ton of time and money by just buying a class D amp. This owuld negate any need for upgrading the "big 3"...

 

The amp I'm going with is the alpine pdx 5, which is a class d amp. It has (2) 30amp fuses. I will also have, (though these wont draw more than a couple amps at the most) audiocontrol lc7, and audiocontrol epicenter. I think I read in another post about the pdx 5 during high bass hits making the lights dim. I am trying to avoid this with the big three upgrade.

 

 

don't know why the photos don't show!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/42645432@N02/

 

You copied the flicker page URL, not the image URL.











Shaggy!

 

Robin thanks. Not a fan of the shaggy?? The cooper is already out there in terms of styling, thought I would push it a little further. Plus it feels great when you drive bare foot!! Now if you could offer any information about the big three upgrade?

 

**** is OK, but about that color...

I know very little about the big three. Don't recall it coming up here.

I believe the alternator is somewhere around the bottom of the engine on the front side, but I'll let you climb under and look for it.

I've run 4 gauge wire directly from the batter to the amp and fused it with an 80 amp fuse because that is what the amp requires. Hadn't thought about what the alternator can handle, but now I guess I have something to worry about.

 

For those who don't know what the "big 3" upgrade consists of...

Its basically upgrading the power and 2 ground wires inside the engine compartment.

if you look under the hood you will notice there is a red wire going from the battery to the alternator...thats 1 of the 3 to be upgraded from the stock 4 ga to 1/0 gauge.

Then you will see that the battery has 2 black wires...one to go to the engine block..an the other to go to the chassis of the vehicle...2 and 3 of the Big 3.


Those who do this swear by it....i have never done it...so i can't offer up an opinion other than to say there is nothing wrong with overkill

 

i am currently running a pdx 1.100, pdx 4.100, 2 sets of alpine spr-17s(6 1/2 components), 4 alpine single voice coil 12" subs,running of a kenwood kdc-hd942u head unit...(not recomended), but amps are directly wired to positive terminal, negative grounded to chassis, driving with a/c on at night all lights, my lights dont dim one bit..the stock altenator puts out @120 amps, which is plenty..i havent even upgraded my battery or added a cap to the system, and ive been runnin this way for over a year!

 

u should have actually down fired that sub, you would get better response out of it!
i wouldnt do it, but the **** is pimp!

 

Thanks!

Did you mean to say pdx 1.1000? So your running around 1400 watts rms (probably more) without a problem?

I looked around for the alternator today and it wasn't in plain sight (as far as I can tell). I played follow the leader on the positive wires coming off the bat to find one going to a fuse box and the other disappearing somewhere under the engine. I would guess the latter would be the alt to bat wire? I think if your able to run over 1000rms without a problem, and I'm only planning on running less than 800 I shouldn't have a problem either. I think I will just add a 4 gauge bat to chassis wire and call it quits. I still need to buy the amp and sound gear... around $700 more I think Until then it is all still academic. But if anyone knows more information about the big three upgrade in minis let me know. I might want to up my wattage at some point.

 

yea sorry..its is a pdx 1.1000,on my 04 mcs the alternator is on the forward side of the engine just under the supercharger above the a/c compressor..another trick is since the battery is in the back my power wires are not more than 2 foot long, as long as mini didnt change the alternator in following years from mine, then you should have no issues, but if u rebuild that box and fire your speaker down it will make a big sound difference for the better..

 

I guess I could try that. I could always cut a hole in the false floor and flip the box over with the speaker facing down? Why does it matter where the sub faces? One of my degrees is in physics and using that part of my brain, would think the waves from the box are so long that it shouldn't matter the position of the speaker. Is it one of those things that just is because it is...

 

On a second gen MINI if you look at the passenger side of the engine you will see the drive belt. You will need a flash light. You can barely see the alternator toward the front of the engine. You might be able to see it better from below.

 

im no expert, but i have been putting subs in cars for 18+ years, bass waves are long taking @ 12 feet to reproduce to full potential...so for one firing the sub down gives the frequency more time to produce, also with the sub firing up like it is it has a tendecy to lose control due to the fact it has no back pressure. i would raise it up about 2 to 3 inches from the floor, also dont build it perfectly square, when its square you get standing waves in the corners of the box, causing frequency cancellation,
even if u fired it into the side of the car or the back of the seat will sound better than straight up! good luck

 

And on the 2nd Gen MINI's for the US/Canad/Mexico Market there is a sensor on the Ground post of the Negative wire that is a required for the car to operate. This can not be removed or by passed.The computer will be confused and you will have problem with it.

Here is the wording out of the MINI WDS (wiring Diagram system)

WDS Wiring Diagram SystemIBS: Intelligent battery sensor

Only vehicles with High equipment, e.g. CCC (Car Communication Computer) are equipped with the IBS.
The IBS is a mechatronic, intelligent battery sensor with its own microprocessor. The microprocessor is a component of the electronic module. The electronic module records the voltage, the current flowing and the temperature of the battery.
The following components are fitted in the electronic module:

• a shunt (resistor for current measurement)
  
• a temperature sensor
  
• electronic evaluation unit on a board
  

The IBS continuously measures the following values on the battery:

• Terminal voltage
  
• Charge current
  
• Discharge current
  
• Temperature of the battery
  
  

For data transmission, the IBS is connected to the DME (Digital Engine Electronics) or DDE (Digital Diesel Electronics) via the BSD (bit-serial data interface).


WDS Wiring Diagram SystemProtection of the intelligent battery sensor
CAUTION! Risk of destruction if subjected to mechanical stress.

• Do not attach any additional connections to the negative terminal of the battery.
  
• Do not modify the ground cable.
  The ground cable also carries off heat.
  
• Do not set up a connection between the IBS (intelligent battery sensor) and the sensor screw.
  
• When disconnecting the pole piece from the battery terminal, do not use force:
  
  • Do not pull on the ground cable.
    
  • Do not apply any tool under the IBS to lever out the pole piece.
    
• Do not use connections of the IBS as levers.
  
• Use a torque wrench and set the tightening torque in accordance with repair instructions.
  
• Do not slacken or tighten the sensor screw (Torx screw).
  
• Avoid contact between the IBS and ground.
  
  

 

If my car doesn't have CCC, does this mean I don't have IBS? And therefore I don't need to worry about adding another ground from the bat to the car?

 

What is CCC? Is it relate to the OBC's method of communicating with various systems in the car, or is it about things like Bluetooth and NAV?

 

Part of it depends on where you purchased the car. If the car was purchsed in the USA, Canada, OR Mexico the you have the CCC. If yo purchased it in another country then you will have to check with the dealer. I know that Japan does not use the CCC, and Germany it can be with or with out from what I know.

The CCC (central Car Computer/Car Communications Computer) contains the following 5 modules.
1. CCC-A - Applications
2. CCC-ASK - Audio System Controller
3. CCC-GW - Gateway
4. CCC-BO - User Interface
5. CCC-ANT - Antenna Tuner

Another way to think of it is as the Boost Radio.

It connects to the CAN-bus, MOST-bus, voice processing system, Central Information Dispaly (on screen display in the speedometer NAV or not), instrument lighting, ULF Module (bluetooth), NAV System, Radio Antenna, Rotational and Yaw Sensors.

Another way to think of it is as the Boost Radio. In the USA Canada and Mexico all cars come with the Boost Radio. In some other countries it is an option, and yet other seems to not be available.

 

Well I hope adding this amp doesn't make a module go out, or a CEL come on... Anyone have a amp in a '09 msc with boost radio bought in the US?

 

you really dont need to mess with the negative side of the battery anyway to hook up an amp, u just ground it to the chassis!

 

Re: Big 3 upgrade....i have been trying to tell people for 10 years that its not necessary to do it....and that barring running a full bore SPL competition machine there is no need for more than 4 ga power wire ....

But i got sick preaching that a few years ago so now...people who insist on doing this will not listen.

And as shatzy pointed out...its opening a huge kettle of fish you may not want to open.

 

Lots of people here are running aftermarket amps up to and over 1000 watts with out probelm.

I am running a PDX-5 and Computer in the car with no porblems. My extra draw on the electrical system can reach 60+ amps peak at time with out a problem.

 

I have been doing installatiuons for about 14 years. IO am also A Master Electrician. Back in the day you throw a capacitor in the loop I started doing the big three after I got the S@#T whacked out of me when I reached behind the seat in my old S-10 and found the Cap. Im running about 2000-25000W in my 07 MCS I am getting ready to do the Big 3 on it. In the past I have always noticed overall improvements when the grounds are upgraded.